Don’t Become A Slave To The Rat Race

[ziggy29]

Further, you can't always walk away from the stuff you bought last year. But you can always walk away from buying more stuff

Another way I look at it is this -- if it *really* will enhance my enjoyment of life, I'll buy it; we're fortunate enough to not need overly scrutinizing every dollar of discretionary spending. If not, well... in that case, choosing not to buy something that costs $X would feel almost the same as earning an additional $X (tax-free).

 

[Sarah in SC]

Don't mess with the power of the Dave Ramsey sticker.
I love it!

I must report a downside to the sticker, though, as a friend once suggested I pick up the tab for our happy hour drinks, you know, 'cause I got that sticker and all. I was like--how the heck do you think I got that sticker? It wasn't by picking up bar tabs!

 

[Onward]

So what you're saying is that it is the liabilities, not the assets. Or the exact opposite of what was claimed in the original quote

Tom, for most Americans, the assets and their associated liabilities are inseparable. There are very few big houses without big house payments.

 

[TomG]

Tom, for most Americans, the assets and their associated liabilities are inseparable. There are very few big houses without big house payments.

Which is what makes housing a liability. . .

 

[youbet]

Large salaries can only create freedom, not slavery. If someone earns and spends $25 000 per year, that means someone else who takes home $250 000 can work one year and take the next nine off

There's a lot of truth to that. I certainly know more folks who are happily FIRE'd who earned a fairly hefty compensation package and LBYM'd than folks who earned a very modest compensation and LBYM'd. If you don't make it, ya can't save it!

I think the author draws too much of a correlation between high earners and high spenders. Sure, that happens. But my obervation in life is that plenty of high earners save more bux per year than low earners.

Wish I'd been a high earner!

 

[haha]

There's a lot of truth to that. I certainly know more folks who are happily FIRE'd who earned a fairly hefty compensation package and LBYM'd than folks who earned a very modest compensation and LBYM'd. If you don't make it, ya can't save it!

I think the author draws too much of a correlation between high earners and high spenders. Sure, that happens. But my obervation in life is that plenty of high earners save more bux per year than low earners.

Wish I'd been a high earner!

For a really high earner, it is easy to spend enormous amounts and still save enormous amounts. I also do accept that in many careers one who aspires to hit it really big does have to spend more than people who have found their level and are just trying to grind it out. It is very hard to just save $10-$30mm. It comes in big hunks, big bonuses, successful businesses sold, big commossions and big rain making which overall are less likely to be events in the life of someone driving an old Accord. Not impossible, but less likely in an urban environment anyhow.

Ha

 

[Lusitan]

significant dents that are flaking paint and/or rusting don't convey a good impression

They convey the right impression for me when I'm driving my beater: back the eff off, because you can see I obviously don't give a damn.

Then again, I'm in the city and don't drive to work, so I don't worry about impressions.

 

[DblDoc]

They convey the right impression for me when I'm driving my beater: back the eff off, because you can see I obviously don't give a damn.

Then again, I'm in the city and don't drive to work, so I don't worry about impressions.

A useful strategy when driving in Boston. I found while living there the traffic laws were more like "guidelines".

My wife says it also helps to have a beater appearing car in parking lots - everyone parks well away from her so no trouble getting back into the car.

DD

 

[Purron]

Back when I was an auditor working the tuff neighborhoods of Washington DC, I intentionally drove an old beat up, stick shift car. After someone plowed into me in traffic, I didn't get the damage repaired. Just let the dented parts rust in peace. No worries about parking it on the streets. It was always there waiting for me after my work to take me home again.

 

[ERD50]

I find it ironic that conservative top executives, who probably loathe the idea of any sort of national health plan, are happy to offer a high-end corporate health plan, free flu shots, health screenings, corporate "wellness officer," wellness site on the intranet, etc, etc. In other words, no problem with big brother being involved with your personal health matters, as long as it serves the purpose of binding employees to the job.

Don't forget that the govt had a hand in promoting this, it isn't strictly the 'conservative top executives' idea.

The govt provides tax write offs for many of those benefits. So it is cheaper to offer a benefit as part of total compensation to attract talent than it is to offer salary (and pay SS on that salary, etc). So they do it, 'cause they're smart and that's the rules that Congress set up. So blame Congress.

And it really snowballs in good times. Once company offers this benefit, another counters with that, rinse/repeat...

-ERD50

 

[ATC KH]

I wonder if mega corp's like to hire employees with large student loan debt as well? It seems like a fair amount of hires within my work area have six figures + in loans. I don't think anything could be more binding than $120,000 in student loan debt, a recently purchased townhome for $220,000 and plans to have a couple kids (or already have one or two) over the next couple of years. This type of scenario seems very common.

College: building tomorrow's slaves today

 

[Onward]

College: building tomorrow's slaves today

Naw, if colleges were really building slaves they'd let you graduate without a single course in finance, negotiation, or investing.

 

[Nords]

I wonder if mega corp's like to hire employees with large student loan debt as well? It seems like a fair amount of hires within my work area have six figures + in loans. I don't think anything could be more binding than $120,000 in student loan debt, a recently purchased townhome for $220,000 and plans to have a couple kids (or already have one or two) over the next couple of years. This type of scenario seems very common.
College: building tomorrow's slaves today

Naw, if colleges were really building slaves they'd let you graduate without a single course in finance, negotiation, or investing.

"Just sign here for the five-year commitment and we'll pay for your MBA!!"

 

[FinanceDude]

Don't mess with the power of the Dave Ramsey sticker.
I love it!

Gotta be honest, I think SC is the home and breeding ground for POS cars, I saw MANY last time I was there........

 

[Sarah in SC]

Nah, FinDude, you you were just hanging around with the wrong crowd. We got plenty of fancy Escalades and pimped out cruising cars if you travel in the right circles.
I am actually looking for a new POS now, and bummed that prices for used cars are much higher than at any point in the recent past.

Tight supply of used cars ups value of trade-ins | The Columbus Dispatch

 

[ERD50]

I am actually looking for a new POS now, and bummed that prices for used cars are much higher than at any point in the recent past.

Tight supply of used cars ups value of trade-ins | The Columbus Dispatch

I wonder how much of that is attributable to the "Cash for Clunkers" program? Clearly, that was a consequence of destroying old running vehicles (though I don't know the magnitude). I don't think the congresscritters sold that to their constituents as a program to benefit the rich and steal from the poor, did they?

-ERD50

 

[Danmar]

For a really high earner, it is easy to spend enormous amounts and still save enormous amounts. I also do accept that in many careers one who aspires to hit it really big does have to spend more than people who have found their level and are just trying to grind it out. It is very hard to just save $10-$30mm. It comes in big hunks, big bonuses, successful businesses sold, big commossions and big rain making which overall are less likely to be events in the life of someone driving an old Accord. Not impossible, but less likely in an urban environment anyhow.

Ha

Agree with you (as usual). In my case I lived way BMM for about 12 years. One day I looked around and my options were worth millions. Drove beaters for most of this time. Not much in the way of cash savings. I don't think earning big bucks is the problem. Wasn't for me. Most people who have significant assets got them in big lumps. I consider myself very lucky as the fairly sudden wealth allowed me to ER.

 

[Texas Proud]

I wonder how much of that is attributable to the "Cash for Clunkers" program? Clearly, that was a consequence of destroying old running vehicles (though I don't know the magnitude). I don't think the congresscritters sold that to their constituents as a program to benefit the rich and steal from the poor, did they?

-ERD50

I don't think it had that big a deal.... (did no research... pulling from memory so it could be wrong)... we were producing 13+ million car and trucks a year... X say 10 years... or 130 mill cars... there were maybe 1 mill cars in the clunker program...

I think the recession has had a lot more to do with people not buying new cars which restricts the number of used... and.... more people just buying a new POS car when the old POS dies...



Decided to look:
Wow... wrong on the number... from Wiki

"Overall, there were an estimated 254.4 million registered passenger vehicles in the United States according to a 2007 DOT study"

 

[ERD50]

I don't think it had that big a deal.... (did no research... pulling from memory so it could be wrong)... we were producing 13+ million car and trucks a year... X say 10 years... or 130 mill cars... there were maybe 1 mill cars in the clunker program...

I think the recession has had a lot more to do with people not buying new cars which restricts the number of used... and.... more people just buying a new POS car when the old POS dies...

Interesting to consider, and I don't know which number to use, and there certainly are other factors, but I think we should be looking at the 1 million (or whatever) cars pulled off the market in relationship to the total market for cheap used cars.

I'm just speculating, I have no numbers, but Sarah was pointing to the price of cheap old cars (affectionately called POS cars ) - so I think that market needs to be the denominator. I doubt that CfC had a measurable effect on the price of 1 year old BMWs.

I'll reserve the POS reference for the legislation and those who signed it, and no, I'm not using the term affectionately!

-ERD50

 

[Texas Proud]

Interesting to consider, and I don't know which number to use, and there certainly are other factors, but I think we should be looking at the 1 million (or whatever) cars pulled off the market in relationship to the total market for cheap used cars.

I'm just speculating, I have no numbers, but Sarah was pointing to the price of cheap old cars (affectionately called POS cars ) - so I think that market needs to be the denominator. I doubt that CfC had a measurable effect on the price of 1 year old BMWs.

I'll reserve the POS reference for the legislation and those who signed it, and no, I'm not using the term affectionately!

-ERD50

Since we are going back and forth.... you make the mistake if you think that all of the CFCs would have been put on the market... I can tell you that mine would not have been... I would still be driving it...


Anyhow.... I think the percent of the 'market' would be less than 1%... so I go back to my old post and say it is more the recession that has affected the price of POS cars...

 

[Sarah in SC]

ERD, I too would like to attribute the higher price I'll pay for a used car to that particular piece of ahem, legislation, but I think it really can be more attributable to the fact that tough economic times made it more likely for people to keep their cars longer and tighter financing made it harder for marginal borrowers to buy new cars and trade out of the ones I want to buy.

 

[Milton]

However, significant dents that are flaking paint and/or rusting don't convey a good impression. An older car doesn't need to be in mint condition, but it does need to look well maintained.

If one is trying to impress people (employers, customers, relatives, friends, etc.), that is certainly true.

If not, drive what you like in whatever condition you like it.

 

[growing_older]

The older my car, the more distance other drivers allow in spacing around me. That seems particularly true for drivers with newer higher end models. Drivers of those cars are sometimes safe and careful anyway, but for the aggressive go-getters who sometimes seem to think rules don't apply to them, I don't mind making them think a little cautiously about whether I would care as much about getting a dent as they would.

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

If one is trying to impress people (employers, customers, relatives, friends, etc.), that is certainly true.

If not, drive what you like in whatever condition you like it.

Agreed. Sam Walton (of Walmart fame), used to drive an old pickup despite being worth billions:

Sam Walton's Famous Pickup Truck pictures from world travel photos on webshots

 

[lyndontravis]

Rat race! I have a book talking about not getting into the rat race. I forgot the title of the book and the name of the author, he is being critize for his publishing but I like the way he thinks.