Dreaded counter offer with 2 weeks notice

[user5027]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CardsFan Don't be so sure you will get the "dreaded counter offer". My former Megacorp had a policy of NOT countering to keep an employee. The reason being, once an employee has made the effort to interview and get an offer, they have already decided to leave. It is only a matter of when. I can't say I disagree with this philosophy.

+1

When I got to the point in my career where I had the ability to hire and fire, my seasoned boss told me, "If anyone comes to you and quits, NEVER talk them out of it."

[workburnout]

"Always take the money," a very wise friend once said.

[kcowan]

The other thing that your current employer might do is match the offer just to give them time to work their way out of dependence on you. I have seen that happen a few times.

Most however accepted the new offer and went on to bigger and better things.

There were a couple that overlooked some perq that was missing in the new position and regretted the move financially.

[bj345]

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Originally Posted by bigcmagor We have had "producers" leave our company thinking they would be taking their book of business with them to a competitor. It rarely worked out that way, and many were terminated by their new employer when the business didn't follow them. Employers are not interested in paying employees more than the going rate for their work since doing so can lead to being uncompetitive. If you've discovered the going rate is higher for your position than you are being paid, giving your current employer an opportunity to bring you up to market rate shows some loyalty and may help you reach your goals sooner through an enhanced compensation package. Why would you dread this?

Great comments everyone thanks. Keep them coming.

Particular to this comment, the new and old employer share the same client and "pot" of funds. Switching to other employer would mean winning more work and bringing a higher share of revenue to the new employer.

[CardsFan]

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Originally Posted by bj345 Great comments everyone thanks. Keep them coming. Particular to this comment, the new and old employer share the same client and "pot" of funds. Switching to other employer would mean winning more work and bringing a higher share of revenue to the new employer.

Are you POSITIVE you do not have a "no compete" clause buried somewhere in your current contract/agreement?

Maybe this is new, but in my past work it would be highly unusual for someone who directly courts and signs clients/contracts to NOT have one. If not, will the new Company require it?

I know a lot of these are not very enforceable, but my experience has been that sales/marketing positions can be.

Just a thought.

[bj345]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CardsFan Are you POSITIVE you do not have a "no compete" clause buried somewhere in your current contract/agreement? Maybe this is new, but in my past work it would be highly unusual for someone who directly courts and signs clients/contracts to NOT have one. If not, will the new Company require it? I know a lot of these are not very enforceable, but my experience has been that sales/marketing positions can be. Just a thought.

Absolutely right. I was surprised that current employer did not have one. New one definitely has one with the offer letter. I'll double check.

[Red Badger]

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Originally Posted by cathy63 If I understand this correctly, you're not leaving because you're unhappy at your current employer but because the new guys approached you and basically made you an offer you can't refuse. This is the one situation where I think accepting a counter offer can work out for both sides. If you want to stay with your current employer, figure out in advance what they'd have to offer in order to keep you and be realistic about whether it's possible for them to do it. They're not going to establish a stock purchase plan just for you, but they might be able to add people at your level (or promote you to a level that participates) in an existing plan. Likewise, they can't adjust the 401k match unless they do it for everyone, and that takes time. When you resign, make it clear that this job came to you, not the other way around. If they ask what they can do to keep you, that's the time to give them your requirements. There is no need to ask them why you are worth more today than yesterday; that's just adversarial and will create hard feelings if you end up staying. You know perfectly well that you're worth more today because your labor is a scarce commodity and someone else has expressed a willingness to pay more for it. It's basic economics and no sane person (or company) pays more than he has to in order to acquire what he needs.

+1.
I got an "offer I couldn't refuse." Informed my boss that I would prefer to stay, but welfare of my family came first. In the end he got to about 95% of what the other offer was, so I stayed. It was a good decision. Retired from same ~20 years later. YMMV!

Yeah. leave that "why am I worth more now" crap inside of your cranium. Okay to think it, but very toxic to say it.

[Lstansbury]

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Originally Posted by bj345 Wow, thanks for so many responses so quickly. Back in 2012, my department was being terminated. At the time, I didn't want to be the last on a sinking ship so I got an offer from a competitor. My current company provide a counter to another group and I took it. It worked out really well with a move into management, 20% more money, and flexibility in my job, so I'm pretty sure there will be a counter this time around. Again I like the work life balance, but the pay is not what the market is paying. Also note I haven't reneged since I haven't accepted new employer yet.

Maybe the reason the pay isn't market rate is because of the work life balance. Whenever I get paid more, I work 12 hours a day and some on weekends instead of the usual 7 to 8 and clock out at 5. Work life balance always cost me money. Are you sure you want the 12 hour grind, 6 day a week grind? Or maybe your skills are so great, you won't have those expectations on you.

[Montecfo]

I do the hiring and firing in my company. My policy is I do not counter for many of the reasons stated. Under your facts, I could envision my CEO wanting to counter.

But you would also be under a noncompete if you worked in my company. Enforceability varies by state law.

If I countered you, and you accepted, you would be signing an noncompete. A negotiating tactic with your prospective company would be to ask for salary continuation for the noncompete period, or release from noncompete if termed involuntarily. Is this provided for?

Options are valuable. Personally I would not want to accept the counter for the reason you alluded to: why do they not pay at market? Will you need to leave to get your next raise? Also your new employer can afford to pay more, if you are bringing new business. And it sounds like they have better benefits.

Which provides the greater long term career opportunity?

[Bryan Barnfellow]

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Originally Posted by CardsFan Don't be so sure you will get the "dreaded counter offer". My former Megacorp had a policy of NOT countering to keep an employee. The reason being, once an employee has made the effort to interview and get an offer, they have already decided to leave. It is only a matter of when. I can't say I disagree with this philosophy.

+1 I have always followed this philosophy. A former manager of mine said that you should always wish the person well and say that you hope to hire him/her back someday in a higher position. I even had a person come back like this after a few years and he said he did so partly because of the way I treated his departure.

-BB

[gerntz]

Current employer has told you what you're worth to them by what your existing package is. Net, seems a counter offer would put you above what they really think you're worth & lessen future gains. New guys think you're worth what they're offering.

[Totoro]

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Originally Posted by gerntz Current employer has told you what you're worth to them by what your existing package is. Net, seems a counter offer would put you above what they really think you're worth & lessen future gains. New guys think you're worth what they're offering.

Depends - not everyone always knows exactly what market rates are supposed to be. It could be a simple case of ignorance, especially if the company is a bit smaller. In that case, if formulated right it can create an opportunity to revalue: "I'd rather stay, but this is a very big gap, is there a way to discuss this?"

What I haven't heard yet and is an important factor: switching, especially in a consulting setting and at senior levels, means rebuilding your internal network. Many switchers fail because of that.

Addition: also don't underestimate the effect switching loyalty can have on your client's organization. They have their own dynamics and don't always want to be seen encouraging that type of behavior.

[nash031]

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Originally Posted by bj345 ... if an initial counter offer is provided ask them why am I worth so much more today than yesterday.

Personally, I'd leave this part out. It serves no purpose other than to satisfy your own ego or pride. It'd be unprofessional on the way out the door. As others have said, you don't know that things are going to work out at the competitor, so I wouldn't burn bridges. You may need a reference or wish to return to the same company at a different position in the future.

[bj345]

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Originally Posted by Totoro Depends - not everyone always knows exactly what market rates are supposed to be. It could be a simple case of ignorance, especially if the company is a bit smaller. In that case, if formulated right it can create an opportunity to revalue: "I'd rather stay, but this is a very big gap, is there a way to discuss this?" What I haven't heard yet and is an important factor: switching, especially in a consulting setting and at senior levels, means rebuilding your internal network. Many switchers fail because of that. Addition: also don't underestimate the effect switching loyalty can have on your client's organization. They have their own dynamics and don't always want to be seen encouraging that type of behavior.

Very good comment. I will cede that part of the success with current company is knowing which people to slot in to projects, i.e. internal network. I'd have to restart from scratch in the new company.

Agreed with everyone's comment about checking the ego at the door with the "why worth more now" comment. This should resolve in the next few days. I can't be losing sleep over which way to go...

[thumbs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerntz Current employer has told you what you're worth to them by what your existing package is. Net, seems a counter offer would put you above what they really think you're worth & lessen future gains. New guys think you're worth what they're offering.

This is not always true. I have had employees that I knew were underpaid. One asked for a 30 percent raise and stated the reason they were worth it, and we agreed. I knew they were working below market value for quite some time. Their contribution to the business kept growing faster than their normal raises did. If you have asked for more money, made a good case and they refused, then yes, they are paying you what they think you are worth(or more). But you can't look at your wage and say "this is exactly what the company thinks I am worth" because that's not always there case.

[Travelfreek]

My DS just went through this. He applied to a "reach job" and was offered the position (over 82 other candidates). He also negotiated a $25k salary boost vs current job. He then gave his 2 week notice with his employer of 4 years. They (current employer) offered $35k more which bested the new job salary by $10k! Unbelievable. He was torn for a day or 2 but went ahead with new company to learn a new field with much more potential growth. He's so excited!!!!!

[armor99]

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Originally Posted by Big_Hitter I got the full court press last time I quit; I told them I had given my word to my new employer and I was not going to take any counters. "What will it take to get you to stay? Anything?" - they even offered to move me up here and let me work out of my house - I still declined I don't renege on my word

Good for you!! Nice to see that some people still have integrity. It always surprises me that so many employers think salary is the reason people leave.... generally it is not...

[bj345]

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Originally Posted by Red Badger +1. I got an "offer I couldn't refuse." Informed my boss that I would prefer to stay, but welfare of my family came first. In the end he got to about 95% of what the other offer was, so I stayed. It was a good decision. Retired from same ~20 years later. YMMV! Yeah. leave that "why am I worth more now" crap inside of your cranium. Okay to think it, but very toxic to say it.

I owe the group an update since there were so many valuable insights from the group.

I took the advice of some posters and highlighted two things: 1) the competitor approached me and 2) I needed to do what was best for my family in terms of compensation.

At the end of day, i stayes with my current employer. They pretty much matched salary, although the other employer offered a better runway for future career growth. The latter didn't have much value to me since I'm in the point of my career and family life where I'm not looking to move up the ranks with all the added responsibilities. I'm just looking to RE :-)

Thanks again for all your help!

[big-papa]

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Originally Posted by bj345 I owe the group an update since there were so many valuable insights from the group. I took the advice of some posters and highlighted two things: 1) the competitor approached me and 2) I needed to do what was best for my family in terms of compensation. At the end of day, i stayes with my current employer. They pretty much matched salary, although the other employer offered a better runway for future career growth. The latter didn't have much value to me since I'm in the point of my career and family life where I'm not looking to move up the ranks with all the added responsibilities. I'm just looking to RE :-) Thanks again for all your help!

Congratulations! Hope this works out for you. I do recall some stats that employees who receive a counter offer and stay, are still at very high risk of leaving anyway in the next 1-2 years vs. the general population of employees.

[bj345]

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Originally Posted by big-papa Congratulations! Hope this works out for you. I do recall some stats that employees who receive a counter offer and stay, are still at very high risk of leaving anyway in the next 1-2 years vs. the general population of employees.

Thanks for the warning. I'll look out for that and update the group if I become one of those stats.