Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
False promises at work - not being promoted
Old 01-17-2017, 07:23 PM   #1
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 224
False promises at work - not being promoted

In mid 2016 I was given more work responsibility, with the idea that I would be given even more work responsibility at the onset of 2017. I work for a small company, and my "predecessor" (i.e., another jr. employee who also held the same role that I did a few years ago) took the same path I've been on. My predecessor took on the same additional responsibilities mid-year, and was promoted at year-end, and subsequently took on additional responsibilities.

I reached out to my manager in November when we got the email about our year-end reviews to see when would be a good time to discuss work responsibility, pay, and title for 2017. I got a very snarly reaction asking why I thought it was appropriate to talk about pay. Mind you, there is a very very large internal pay inequity at play between where I am and just the level above me (to the tune of about 70%). I told my boss that I am motivated to succeed and take on additional responsibilities in the new year but she still thought I was out of line. I also indicated that there is a very large pay gap between where I am and just a level above me, so I was curious to have the discussion as to where things would be going from a pay perspective.

I had my year end review in December, which was 95% positive. Of the 4 raters that rated me, 3 of 4 were "exceeding expectation". The 5% that was not so positive was that they said they think I am being too aggressive about my career growth and that "perception is reality" and it may come off the wrong way to some people.

Despite all of this, and in light of my predecessor's career path and my good reviews, I thought I was still for sure slated for a promotion. Given that my boss (apparently) likes to initiate career growth conversations, I decided to hold-off and let my boss approach the convo, thinking it would come some time this month.

New titles were announced out of the blue today on a company wide call, and I thought I was going to be announced as promoted and that just maybe my boss hadn't gotten around to telling me and it would be a surprise.

However, that was not the case, and my name was not on the list. I am a little baffled and shocked to say the least. My boss emailed me today about "taking a stab" at my draft goals for the year and that we could go over them and modify as needed once the draft is ready. I replied asking if we could have a conversation before-hand to see if my mind is in the right direction as to how I should be drafting my goals and she replied saying that she prefers I take a first stab at it.

I am a little ticked off that I did not get promoted. I'm not sure as to:

1) If I should blatantly tell my boss this?
2) If I should set my goals up to take on even more responsibility even though I am not seeing any promotion
3) Keep my mouth shut and play "complacent" for another year and maybe it will come for 2018. If I want to stay at my company I feel this may be the most viable option since, apparently, I am being too aggressive.
4) What to do in general. I feel very undervalued and like I am almost being picked on. While our forecast for 2017 is slightly lower than that of 2016 due to uncertainty in the market, I feel like them giving me more responsibility without any additional pay is a slap in the face. I am not one for having a good poker face, so I am just concerned as to how my behavior is going to pan out for the rest of the year.

Sorry for the long winded post but I just needed to get it off my chest!
__________________

younginvestor2013 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 01-17-2017, 07:27 PM   #2
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 224
Or is the writing on the wall, and maybe it is time for me to look elsewhere?
__________________

younginvestor2013 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2017, 07:42 PM   #3
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: St. Charles
Posts: 1,992
Quote:
Originally Posted by younginvestor2013 View Post
Or is the writing on the wall, and maybe it is time for me to look elsewhere?
That's possible. But it also possible that your boss thought you came on too strong, and just got a little offended. If the pay discrepency is as you say, odds are your immediate boss is not the only one that needs to OK a promotion, and there needs to be a place for you, as well.

That said, I found over my career the best way to approach this was during your review, and asking the question "what do I need to do to move to the next level?".

The first time I did this, my boss gave me some very concrete things to do. I think he was already on board, but needed the "proof" for the higher ups. Keep in mind I had only been in the job 6 months when this occurred. The next year, when I asked, he said you don't need to do anything more, and I was promoted a month later.

Also, in many places (especially where I worked) the expectation was for you to perform the higher level work for up to a year before you got promoted.

For the record, while I complained (to myself) at the time, it was not really a bad way to handle things. You neede to prove you could do it before you got paid for it.
__________________
If your not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Never slow down, never grow old!
CardsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2017, 08:06 PM   #4
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
brewer12345's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 17,705
Money talks and bull excrement walks. I would go see what else is out there. Frankly, with that large a pay inequity, they will never get you caught up. Better you jump elsewhere (or have a credible threat to do so) and stop wasting time hoping they will get around to you.
__________________
"See their morals, their code, it's a bad joke. Dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these civilized people, they'll eat each other.
See, I'm not a monster... I'm just ahead of the curve."

- The Joker
brewer12345 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2017, 08:25 PM   #5
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Austin
Posts: 353
How do you get the 70% number.

The CEO of the start up I worked at was not making that much more on salary than me.
HillCountry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2017, 08:28 PM   #6
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by HillCountry View Post
How do you get the 70% number.

The CEO of the start up I worked at was not making that much more on salary than me.
Because I was told by a couple employees as to what their salaries were. Mind you, these employees should be paid more, due to having (slightly) more experience than me and a higher title/responsibility, but not 70%, IMO. Logically, if I were actually promoted, I should be looking at a 35% pay raise then.....
younginvestor2013 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2017, 08:40 PM   #7
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
RobbieB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Central CA
Posts: 5,214
And you believed them?
__________________
Retired at 59 in 2014. Should have done it sooner but I worried too much.
RobbieB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2017, 08:43 PM   #8
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
MRG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,946
There was a unwritten policy at the Megacorp I was at. First you do the job then you get the title. The other biggie was I want that position and nothing about money!

If I was capable of doing the next position I'd do it. If the pay is what you think, it doesn't matter to me(your manager) there's a floor full of people who want more money. Why do you want or deserve consideration for this huge promotion?

Obviously if you don't know you won't get it. It's then a great time to discuss what do I have to do to prove myself? That's the discussion where your manager has to put up or shut up. If they can't articulate the path then assume there is not one.
MRG is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2017, 08:45 PM   #9
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 222
You titled this false promises. Were you actually promised promotion? Your narrative reads as if you were asked to take on more responsibility and you assumed promotion would happen because it happened to your predecessor

Perhaps even before the review you were behaving ( probably subconsciously) as if you expected promotion- your reviews seem to say that. I would set goals for growth , not mention the promotion and , if you want, search quietly for a new job. Perhaps your manager communicated poorly when you were asked to take on a new role but it is your reputation that is at stake ambitious and hard- working is goodl aggressive and pushy not so much. You may well be misunderstood but in many fields your reputation can spread outside the company to others
Sarah S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2017, 08:52 PM   #10
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Big_Hitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: In the fairway
Posts: 5,461
a promotion is not a pay raise. a promotion is an increase in responsibilities that sometimes come with a pay raise

sounds like you were already promoted with the additional responsibilities
__________________
Swing hard, look up
Big_Hitter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2017, 08:55 PM   #11
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbieB View Post
And you believed them?
I did for two reasons....1) I've seen our company financials and what the payroll line item is and 2) I found a forward looking internal pay analysis for our department and the $ figure was in-line with both of these figures.

And because I work well with this particular individual and trust them and we get along.
younginvestor2013 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2017, 08:58 PM   #12
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah S View Post
You titled this false promises. Were you actually promised promotion? Your narrative reads as if you were asked to take on more responsibility and you assumed promotion would happen because it happened to your predecessor

Perhaps even before the review you were behaving ( probably subconsciously) as if you expected promotion- your reviews seem to say that. I would set goals for growth , not mention the promotion and , if you want, search quietly for a new job. Perhaps your manager communicated poorly when you were asked to take on a new role but it is your reputation that is at stake ambitious and hard- working is goodl aggressive and pushy not so much. You may well be misunderstood but in many fields your reputation can spread outside the company to others
I was not explicitly promised "a promotion" BUT I have been told at least 8-10 times over the course of 2.5 years that I am part of the long term plan for our department and our company and that there is a ton of growth for me available at the firm.

In fact when I first started at the firm, I was told this fairly regularly, and my boss even asked me a few times if I was interviewing to leave the firm

Also, in my year end review, my bosses told me that they don't think that I trust them, and that they want me to place more trust in them.

But given all of the above and what has already been discussed, I don't understand how they can think I don't trust them when I've been given false promises and paid extremely below what others are.
younginvestor2013 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2017, 10:05 PM   #13
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 15,405
With your follow on posts.... it seems there is something off between you and your bosses that either you do not see or you are not telling... I do not have any idea what, but some of what you say leads me in that direction..


I remember when I was first out of college and working at a big accounting firm... I was a senior and we had to evaluate all of the underlings.... one guy came into my office to ask me what his chances of being promoted were... I was honest with him and I said 'not good'... he thought he was a hard worker (he was OK, but not the best) and should be promoted... but, there was something 'wrong' about his attitude that came across badly... (note, I was not his supervisor)....

Fast forward 15 years and I met him... he is a big time lawyer and a large law firm doing very well.... he took my talk to heart and went and got a law degree and changed his attitude... he was doing MUCH better than I was... but, he was telling everybody in the room how important that talk we had years earlier had changed him...


I would have a heart to heart with your boss... there might be something that you are doing that is turning off upper mgmt.... or, there just is not a place yet to move you too... and you are pushing too much...
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2017, 10:22 PM   #14
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 387
You mentioned that your company forecast for 2017 was less than for 2016. It's likely that management is trying to control costs and salaries are usually the most expensive line item. If this is the first time they have not kept their promises, I would try to find out what you need to do to progress to the next level, and maybe even to be somewhat conciliatory in your presentation. You don't want to put yourself on the outside of the "in" group.

It's easy to misinterpret the intentions of management vs. reality, as I have found from both sides of the aisle. As an example, you saw the payroll expense for the company. Did it include state and federal taxes, unemployment, disability and Social Security matching benefits, retirement and insurance? Your take home salary is quite a bit smaller than what you cost the company in payroll expenses.

If they have a habit of breaking promises to you, then I would take it all with a grain of salt. In small companies, the personalities and values of ownership have a lot to do with how you progress within a company and I've seen all types. Trust is something that is earned, but so is mistrust - promises made vs. promises kept.

You need to think about what has been said and whether it is really a promise, or just an implicit expectation you've developed as part of a career development discussion. They really are two different things - a promise is something quantifiable and totally explicit. Given you have a lower plan for the year, the company doesn't sound like it's really feeling its game. It could be moving in the other direction and the business plan doesn't call for a heavier org chart in your area.

The biggest consideration is how marketable you are. Are people just like you making a lot more money in other companies? Did they get raises this year? Do you have all the skills and qualifications to move over to one of these other companies? Talk to your peers at these other companies to see how green the grass really is, and if it is truly better on the outside, that may be a good option for Plan B. If you are not as marketable as you should be, figure out what you need and make those skills your career development goals for this year.

Best Wishes and Good luck!
Starsky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2017, 10:38 PM   #15
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Lakewood90712's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,162
Gee , where do I start.....................

Huge jumps in pay normally result from moving to another employer concurrent with a higher level position. What kind of money are you worth somewhere else ?

The usual solution is to move up AND out.

Sometimes the solution is a move to an unrelated field or industry. This I have done twice in 40 years of work.

I could co on and on , but I'm pretty damn boring.
Lakewood90712 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2017, 04:29 AM   #16
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Duesseldorf, Germany
Posts: 1,099
At work a promise is only relevant if in your contract.
But even then the company situation could change, your performance or attitude cound not meet expectations or... or... or...

If your company needs you in a higher position you might get promoted.
If you are needed in the current position you will not get promoted.

If you feel you are "worth" more money or responsibilities right now you can test the waters by looking for another employer.

You seem to feel some entitlement from comparison to your predecessor.
This is wrong.
He/she is unique, you are unique and the situation of "then" and "today" is unique, too.
Good luck.
chris2008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2017, 05:10 AM   #17
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
target2019's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 6,067
Quote:
Originally Posted by younginvestor2013 View Post
Or is the writing on the wall, and maybe it is time for me to look elsewhere?
That's your best shot. I also work for small company, and have no desire to promote. I see younger people come and go, and it is always for better meal ticket, more responsibility, etc.
target2019 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2017, 06:16 AM   #18
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Huntsville, AL/Helen, GA
Posts: 4,085
You say you work for a small company. I'm surprised to hear that a small company places such emphasis on performance goals, reviews and career advancement. So often small companies are truly understaffed, and their real emphasis is just getting the job done--not lost in high level "Human Relations." It sounds as if you're just getting lip service.

Performance reviews in our MegaCorp were really for defensive purposes. In modern times, so many employees think they're owed promotions--before it's time. And they're also quick to sue whenever passed over by other employees that do a better job. And if there's any hint of discrimination for race, religion or gender, God help your management as they're automatically guilty until proven innocent.

Dealing with performance reviews in my MegaCorp was a very difficult job task. We were numbers orientated, and just coming up with the statistics to substantiate our job reviews was a big job. I had over 25 young college graduates to keep up wiith, and i really didn't have the time to put up with even a few prima donnas in an ultra fast moving business.

It's almost unheard of to hear of a company's goals to be reduced. Our MegaCorp threw new and higher goals on us year after year that we usually deemed unattainable. And somehow we met them. Without stretching for great things, profitability used to support higher salaries just won't be there.

I think I'd put my feelings on the line with your management. Either they step up or they don't. But in the meantime, you might want to be looking for other positions at other companies--put out some feelers.
Bamaman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2017, 06:29 AM   #19
Moderator Emeritus
Bestwifeever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 17,736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamaman View Post
.... I had over 25 young college graduates to keep up wiith, and i really didn't have the time to put up with even a few prima donnas in an ultra fast moving business.
....

I think I'd put my feelings on the line with your management. Either they step up or they don't. But in the meantime, you might want to be looking for other positions at other companies--put out some feelers.
This is a great post, but I am pulling out these points especially--the OP seems to have already gotten a reputation as a bit of an entitled prima donna, from his comments about his bosses etc. I wonder if it's best for him to try to repair that by stopping being obsessed with getting what he perceives as broken promises and what a predecessor's path is and instead do the best job he can for the next year, and then get another job (after repairing any damage to his reputation). IMO he is way too focused on the money right now.
__________________
“Would you like an adventure now, or would you like to have your tea first?” J.M. Barrie, Peter Pan
Bestwifeever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2017, 06:49 AM   #20
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Mdlerth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: The Shire
Posts: 1,504
Quote:
Originally Posted by younginvestor2013 View Post
I reached out to my manager in November when we got the email about our year-end reviews to see when would be a good time to discuss work responsibility, pay, and title for 2017. I got a very snarly reaction asking why I thought it was appropriate to talk about pay. Mind you, there is a very very large internal pay inequity at play between where I am and just the level above me (to the tune of about 70%). I told my boss that I am motivated to succeed and take on additional responsibilities in the new year but she still thought I was out of line.
Compensation, career growth, job responsibilities... all of these are ALWAYS reasonable topics to discuss with one's manager. If yours won't talk about them, then she is not doing her job of developing her people. That's a bad sign and should prompt you to look elsewhere.

But before we pass sentence on the manager, review your own actions objectively. Make doubly sure that you have been entirely professional in your discussions. Are you certain that the snarly reaction was not precipitated by an impertinent action? Hostility has a way of leaking out, and once out it breeds more hostility in response. I have had good bosses and bad ones, and even the good ones had bad days. Don't leap to judgment on a single data point.

You are already into the 2017 performance period. If you have earned the promotion but it doesn't come next time around, you should plan to depart -- in a quiet, professional manner. Keep in mind that you won't be "teaching those idiots a lesson" by quitting. You will simply be pursuing other employment that better matches your interests.

Best of luck! Consider that however it turns out, it's probably for the best.
__________________

__________________
Paying it forward is the best investment.
Mdlerth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Gift to someone being promoted Lakewood90712 Young Dreamers 2 09-25-2015 06:59 AM
What does "discount future promises" mean? pedorrero FIRE and Money 3 12-15-2007 09:19 PM
Charlie Munger promises lower returns for Berkshire-Hathaway Nords Other topics 5 12-10-2005 11:30 PM
public pension promises Martha FIRE and Money 44 06-16-2005 12:36 PM
private pension promises MJ FIRE and Money 7 06-11-2005 09:48 PM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:54 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×