Getting married and premarital assets

Could you fill in this "need to get married"? Last I knew of this was early fifties, when isolated communities might promise violence or ostracism of a man who had impregnated a young woman and was not stepping up top his duty to marrying her.

Ha

+1

Why marry at all? You do not seem to feel like she would contribute her share to the marital assets. Maybe you should just live together and she should apply for citizenship, so that that aspect of things does not push you into marriage when you feel so unsure about it. Trust your instincts. I see no good reason whatsoever for you to marry.
 
For $45k. Not worth it. It's small potato.



+1

If you are worried about losing half of $45K some time in the future if your marriage falls apart, you shouldn't get married.

I think prenups make sense if one partner is bringing significantly more assets into the marriage, or if there are children from a previous relationship to protect. But when both partners are young and just starting out it's not necessary.

If either one of my DDs were engaged to a man with "family wealth", I'd support the idea of a prenup as long as she had her own attorney input to protect her. If either one of the men that my DDs are currently dating asked for a prenup, I'd advise the daughter to take a step back and consider the message being sent. (They are all young and have similar incomes). Marriage is a partnership, and money issues are part of that.
 
My Ex made noises about a pre-nup before we married because he'd inherited about $300k. I told him fine, send me a draft. If it cut me loose with zero after a year and no kids, fine. If it cut me off with zero after 10 years and 2 kids, then, no. He never pursued it. $100k went for a down payment on our house and I got 40% of the equity when we divorced. The rest was spent during the years he was unemployed (I worked FT but in Bergen County, NJ and with his exquisite tastes it wasn't enough.)

I was OK with that split.
 
I agree with this. The OP is looking at the potential of "losing" 500K from a 45K investment. But this is 30 years from now. 30 years you spent with the spouse.

Sorry, but should you divorce 30 years hence, she invested in you (and you in her) all this time. You earned those gains together. She should get a share.

It is a perspective issue, but frankly, if you are afraid of losing gains accumulated through marriage for some future event, then don't get married. Period.

If you came to me with this argument, I would consider ending our relationship.



+1
When you find the right person, you will not feel the need to protect your assets from her.
 
Long story short, my girlfriend and I have been together since 2009 and we need to get married. We are both 30 years old. ...

My girlfriend and I will both be maxing our IRA every year if we were married or not. But she didn't start hers until 2016 at age 29. ...

... shes an incredibly hard worker and has done great things for herself. ... The hardest part about it all is she isn't a US citizen. ... I love her very much but the whole situation makes thing even harder. The more time that goes by is more watching her suffer. Not to mention she hasn't seen her family in 10 years.
....

Since I have a very active imagination and it's a slow day here, I'm cutting and pasting and have come up with the creative and most likely totally wrong idea that you need to get married in order to keep her in the USA, that she's been in school here since 2009, just graduated last year, started a very good job, and time's up on her stay here (see how much fun making things up can be?). Although I can't figure out the watching her suffer part.

There's not much financial benefit to marriage any more ("domestic partners" can get almost all spousal benefits except for Social Security, I believe), so it's more an emotional decision, and if you were crazy in love then you would probably already be married after eight years of being together.
 
Since I have a very active imagination and it's a slow day here, I'm cutting and pasting and have come up with the creative and most likely totally wrong idea that you need to get married in order to keep her in the USA, that she's been in school here since 2009, just graduated last year, started a very good job, and time's up on her stay here (see how much fun making things up can be?). Although I can't figure out the watching her suffer part.

There's not much financial benefit to marriage any more ("domestic partners" can get almost all spousal benefits except for Social Security, I believe), so it's more an emotional decision, and if you were crazy in love then you would probably already be married after eight years of being together.

I would instead guess that since they are 30, they've been together for 7 years, and that she hasn't seen the family in 10 years would imply that they met in the final year of undergrad and they've been working for 6 years. She is on a H1B visa that expires soon or she was on an OPT for a year first before the H1B and so they have 1 year left on the H1B.

Visa issues can make things trickier. I've known colleagues separated from their spouses because of US visa issues. It was a very rough time for them. The OP needs to worry more about whether their life would be better with this person than without; if they make them happy. The money amounts he's talking about are trivial - less than the cost of a family car.
 
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Don't get married.

If you can't risk $22,500 on marrying someone you love, who through your combined efforts will help you to accumulate a rich and fulfilling life beyond what you could accomplish alone, then keep the money [-]and adopt a child and pay for hookers.[/-]

If you do marry her and it eventually falls apart realize that she helped you get from the point at which you started to the point at which it ends. As such she is entitled to half the winnings or half the losings whichever the case may be.
+1. Very sad perspective to enter a marriage, seems biased toward failure. Marriage isn't just a financial arrangement. I made far more than my spouse, but we didn't know how our careers would unfold when we married, and she could have it all if she wanted.

Who wants to negotiate a breakup agreement when you are getting ready to marry?


Prenups are maybe for people who are already very wealthy, couples who already have extremely disparate net worths, or people like athletes/celebs who have have short high paying agreers. Not for someone just starting out IMO.
 
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Yes, I agree that $22,500 is not such a cost to turn down the chance to be happily married. But the cost is not $22,500. Through my lifetime the first 5 years of contributing to the roth ira is much more important than the last 5 years of contributing. If I lose those valuable first 5 years (or half even), that $22,500 will turn into a $100,000-$200,000 loss when you factor in the "value" of what the $22,500 really is. The time value of money, compounding interest, etc.

As others have said, marriage shouldn't be so pragmatic (I made that mistake when I got married, and it's the reason it didn't last - marriage needs to be deeper than details, it's about love and commitment... if you don't just know that is there, then don't get married)... however in exploring these details you might also consider that marrying someone who is also frugal, will create an opportunity for you to possibly save even more. More favorable taxes, mortgage deduction, potential for a working spouse that also contributes and shares in the costs of the family. I think a more important thing to judge is just how frugal and consistent in that path, she is. Look at her habits in spending. A lot of that is developed as a person is raised. Look at how her parents behave financially.

I had an extreme example, on the negative side and I'll point out that it didn't really sink me when I got divorced, because I planned ahead - and maintained consistency. Also, in my mind the 401k was always "ours" and not mine. I married way too young, to someone who projected that she was frugal, like me. However, throughout the marriage it became evident that was not the case. It was a ploy to rope me in. However, I always set aside the max to my 401k no matter what. We divorced after 8 years and she got half of the 401k, but I kept investing the max, even after.

Right now I'm 35... and if I had never gotten married my 401k would be about $425,000... but it's instead $300,000. Not all that different, particularly because as of now my account is just supporting me, and not us both. My assumption is that anyone I would remarry (if I do) would possibly have their own assets. I tend to date and be attracting to working professionals. So although people will talk about marriage and divorce destroying your financial future... it doesn't really. Debt does. Avoiding lawyers helps a lot.

Just do the math in your head... as though the 401k is supporting your life (which includes a wife... unless it doesn't). Life is cheaper if you get divorced, so it doesn't need to be as much. I no longer need a McMansion, which was a priority to my ex-wife, and a part of our plan until divorce. So I no longer need to add that to my end game, or the property taxes associated to it.

Maybe I'm just a glass half full kind of person.
 
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Well, let's not go overboard there.... :LOL:



I've often told my wife if our marriage ever ended she could have it all, and I've meant it. I've been through a nasty divorce with a self centered person. My current wife doesn't have a selfish bone in her body. I've no doubt there'd be no fight over assets, because there won't be any divorce.
 
If the concern is the ROTH IRA then the answer has been given several times. Stop contributing to that ROTH before you get married - open a new one for contributions after you get married. The 2nd one will be joint property by your $45k (and it's growth) will be yours.

I understand the difficulties of different spending priorities. My bff is spending a few thousand every month assisting her parents. Her parents were completely irresponsible with money and now, in their early 80's with various infirmities, they are in a low end assisted living and she supplements their SS to cover the balance. My bff's husband would fit in well here - super frugal, saves every penny he can. Their solution for marital bliss is to keep totally separate finances. She pays specific household bills, he pays other bills, and they don't question each other's priorities. Fortunately, my bff is making decent $ and *is* maxing her 401k... so even if the marriage weren't to work out - she has a safety net for her old age.... and won't end up like her parents.
 
If the concern is the ROTH IRA then the answer has been given several times. Stop contributing to that ROTH before you get married - open a new one for contributions after you get married. The 2nd one will be joint property by your $45k (and it's growth) will be yours.

Growth (dividends and capital gains) are considered jointly owned.
 
Growth (dividends and capital gains) are considered jointly owned.

According to these posts passive seperate property remains seperate and the appreciation does not become community unless substantial efforts are involved: https://www.lawguru.com/legal-quest...tion-seperate-property-assets-live-691627410/
(It would depend on which state however) But if you were to put the IRA in target retirement xxxx funds and never change the investments during the marriage it would look like any gains due to the market would be separate property. If you change investments it looks like the issue would be how often etc. Most of the cases appear to involve small businesses that were managed by a spouse but founded before the marriage, where significant effort went into the managment making in community.
Of course the best answer is if concerned consult a lawyer about a prenup
in your state as laws vary between states.
 
I have a lot of experience in this and would like to add 2 points.

1. You need to quantify and agree on what you can afford to do for her family, it is a lifetime commitment unless you can teach them to fish.

2. Not having your MIL be able to move in with you is PRICELESS!

My Wife's family lived with us for the first 8-9 years of our marriage. When, I finally caught on that things would never change, I put the younger twin sister's
through five years at the best nursing school in the country. They now both have good jobs are on their own and pay 2/3'rds of the MIL living costs. The SIL's treat me like a King, spend lot's of time with my two son's, help my wife whenever she needs it. My MIL has never said thank you, expects presents for every occasion, rarely ever comes over to help with the Kids unless we are serving food and alcohol.
 
If I were talking to your GF having read this, I'd tell her to leave you now. (sorry, harsh I know).

You've been dating since you were both ~23. I'm assuming she has at least a green card as legal short term residency doesn't last for more than 6 years. So, lack of citizenship is not a huge issue. Even if I'm wrong on that point...still...

You should only be considering marriage if you look at this woman and cannot imagine her out of your life. That you would die for her. That your greatest joy would be knowing you will wake up to her face every day forever. That your greatest fear be not being able to help her pain. No, I'm not being hyperbolic. If you don't feel that way toward her, please, let her go, now.

She is 30, with a man who is not committed yet, and is unsure, for financial reasons. Better she face that now, than at 35.

If your undying love and respect for her have failed to come across in these posts, this is a discussion to be having with her first, not the lawyer. Her support for her family is honorable, but setting jointly-agreed limits is pragmatic. Beyond that, you are in a similar place financially, and should be looking forward to growing together.
 
I always enjoy getting financial advice from this forum, but I don't always agree with the relationship advice. Relationships are complicated, and only the OP knows what is best for him, and hopefully his girlfriend. One person's vision of an ideal relationship does not always work for others.

We know very little about the OP's situation. And he hasn't posted since early yesterday anyway, so at some point this thread is beginning to feel like we are all talking amongst ourselves.
 
I'm assuming she has at least a green card as legal short term residency doesn't last for more than 6 years. So, lack of citizenship is not a huge issue. Even if I'm wrong on that point...still...

It's possible to make it out to 10 or 11 years (or more) before starting the green card process. 4 years on an F1 student visa for undergrad (maybe longer for grad school too) + 1 year OPT training following school + 6 years on an H1. Then as long as you are far enough along in the green card process before the H1 expires you can still keep renewing until the end of the green card process. That may be what is driving this - the time limit on the H1 is coming due and maybe the employer isn't sponsoring for the green card…
 
I agree with others who are expressing caution here. I'm seeing first a concern for money, then a concern for someone who takes care of you. As someone said above, I too would counsel your girlfriend to stay far away.
If I were you I'd break it off for awhile, at the very least, and date others. You sound like you are in some type of a rut, even something tinged with resentment. Not a good omen for marriage.
 
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