Highly Stressed

I can understand the desire to be home for a child (I am the mother of 3 children) but unless you are homeschooling (which I don't think you are from what you say about the school) your daughter is in school most of the day. At a minimum your wife could get a part-time job during the school hours.

Yes, yes, I know. She couldn't volunteer as much at school during the school day. To be blunt, that is something she wants to do. It isn't essential. It is a nice to have. And, if you were happy in your job and you could both indulge that want of hers then that would be fine.

But, I fail to understand why you have to be miserable and stressed and working away from home for 18 days at a time in order to accommodate this desire to be free to spend time at the school during the day.

Given your unhappiness with your current working situation, it seems unreasonable for your wife to say no to possible solutions such as her working or you cutting expenses so you wouldn't need to work.

I don't see how it is fair to expect you to work at a very stressful job while she is a SAHM particularly if a 9 year old who is in school.

Actually if she feels it is important to have a stay at home parent for your child (hard to believe that with a 9 year old, but I'll go with it). Why don't you switch? You be the stay at home dad and she goes and gets a full-time job? That would to cover all the bases.
 
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rdy4er said:
Thanks for the replies,
I have talked to my wife about both of us getting jobs, but she wants to be home for our daughter. She does have a side business that earns a few thousand a year.
I love the tiny house idea, but again the wife would not be happy. I have suggested selling our house and moving into our 1000sq ft rental, so far no dice.
I'm stuck between providing for my family and keeping my sanity. We have cut our expenses in the last year, however, I could keep cutting ERE style if it was only up to me. DW is not a big spender, but she will not go that extreme.
I've been flying so long now, I can't honestly say if I'd be happier in a low stress, pay job. I think i would. Another problem is what would I do. Not really qualified for much else.
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It bothers me that your wife doesn't seem to be a partner with you in solving this. You're saying you are unbearably stressed and it is affecting your health. She's saying no she won't get a better paying job, no she won't move to a smaller home, no she won't pare the budget further. What is she willing to do, to help out? Does she understand how stressed and at the end of your rope you are? Have you made that clear to her?

I get frustrated with the idea that men are supposed to sacrifice themselves to their jobs, in order to support their families. I think that is a deadly expectation and a big reason men kick the bucket far earlier than women.

If this were going on in my life, I would have a very serious talk with my wife. I would make sure she really, truly understood how miserable and stressed I was, how desperate I felt for relief. I would insist that she help us find solutions, not just offer a bunch of vetos.
 
ER Eddie said:
It bothers me that your wife doesn't seem to be a partner with you in solving this. You're saying you are unbearably stressed and it is affecting your health. She's saying no she won't get a better paying job, no she won't move to a smaller home, no she won't pare the budget further. What is she willing to do, to help out? Does she understand how stressed and at the end of your rope you are? Have you made that clear to her?
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It really bothers me too. I understand wanting to be there for a child (even one in school) and wanting to be able to help out the school by volunteering. But I certainly think the OP's needs deserve consideration as well.

I honestly think that a possible solution to this so all the needs get met would be for OP to become a stay at home dad and his wife to get a job. It might not pay as much as he is making if she has been out of the workforce a long time, but he seems willing to do a lot to cut the budget and as stay at home parent he could do more of that (and they already have quite a bit saved). And, he would be able to volunteer at the school, etc.
 
youbet said:
I'm very old.

My DW worked full time until REing at 55.

But I worked too. I doubt she would have tolerated me ERing leaving her to pull the plow alone because I was stressed. But, if a guy is clever enough to work that out, go for it! ;)
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I am unsure why you quoted only part of my post and then mocked a suggestion I didn't make - the wife working and the OP not working at all.

My complete post was -

"Can your wife get a job? If both of you had lower stress jobs, could your two incomes match what you make now? Or at least move up your FI time frame?
 
I worked at home full time and volunteered at school, was the sports team mom, did the car pools, went on the class field trips, the whole bit.

It was still a lot less hours and stress than the full time megacorp management job with a commute, and I am sure the megacorp job was a lot less stress than being a pilot responsible for making life and death decisions each day.
 
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The thing is, a guy may have a very kind and cooperative wife. Or he may have one who understands that once they are married, and she gives birth, he had better quit thinking that his opinions matter, because they don't. A married woman with a child sets the rules, the penalties, and any grace periods if there are to be any.

This is humorously expressed (gallows humor) by board members who frequently say ""Aint nobody happy if Momma aint happy.

I think marriage often, perhaps usually, improves a man's life, but it is out of his control. Kind of an odd position for an adult to put himself into.

Ha
 
There was another post a few days ago about a couple who were going to take turns supporting each other going to school for speech pathology, then both work part time -

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f26/35-y-o-married-w-2-kids-wanting-to-work-pt-67814.html

Rdy4er, maybe you could pick up the course catalog for a local college / extension / community college and flip through it with your wife. Surely there has to be something she could find interesting and be willing to do along those same lines.

If she likes the mom type work maybe she could get credentialed to be preschool teacher.
 
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haha said:
The thing is, a guy may have a very kind and cooperative wife. Or he may have one who understands that once they are married, and she gives birth, he had better quit thinking that his opinions matter, because they don't. A married woman with a child sets the rules, the penalties, and any grace periods if there are to be any.

This is humorously expressed (gallows humor) by board members who frequently say ""Aint nobody happy if Momma aint happy.

I think marriage often, perhaps usually, improves a man's life, but it is out of his control. Kind of an odd position for an adult to put himself into.

Ha
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Ever wonder why there are so many divorces? ;)

Not suggesting this as a course of action to solve a stressful job/family situation, just adding to your last thought.

OP, is part of the stress from the dangerous routes you fly? Just curious. I have a friend who is (was) working ATC here and somehow made it to retirement. Some of these airline jobs are a real headache, for sure.
 
I would ask an employment lawyer to call HR to ask about a leave of absence due to stress. Take 6 months off, perhaps paid, try an find a better situation that both of you are comfortable with. Definitely get a lawyer to ask the questions.
 
Thanks to everyone for the advice. After reading all these post it would seem almost all are in favor of getting out of the stressful situation now rather than keeping my head down and plugging away for a few more years to reach FI.

I tend to agree, it's not worth the toll that the stress takes out of you.

It seem like my DW is getting a lot of the blame in not helping or sympathizing with the situation. I have to admit that I am not very good at communicating my feelings, actually terrible at it.
I can open up here anonymously better than one on one with her, so she probably doesn't fully grasp the problem.
 
rdy4er said:
Thanks to everyone for the advice. After reading all these post it would seem almost all are in favor of getting out of the stressful situation now rather than keeping my head down and plugging away for a few more years to reach FI.

I tend to agree, it's not worth the toll that the stress takes out of you.

It seem like my DW is getting a lot of the blame in not helping or sympathizing with the situation. I have to admit that I am not very good at communicating my feelings, actually terrible at it.
I can open up here anonymously better than one on one with her, so she probably doesn't fully grasp the problem.
Click to expand...

John Gottman and his wife have a lot of great research based books, workshops and DVDs on couples communication. Many of the exercises are geared towards getting couples to share in each others dreams and interests.
 
rdy4er said:
Thanks to everyone for the advice. After reading all these post it would seem almost all are in favor of getting out of the stressful situation now rather than keeping my head down and plugging away for a few more years to reach FI.

I tend to agree, it's not worth the toll that the stress takes out of you.

It seem like my DW is getting a lot of the blame in not helping or sympathizing with the situation. I have to admit that I am not very good at communicating my feelings, actually terrible at it.
I can open up here anonymously better than one on one with her, so she probably doesn't fully grasp the problem.
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Sorry you are in a tough spot, Rdy. All of our levels of stress are different so I can't relate exactly to your feelings. I dabbled half heartedly in change of careers, and ultimately am glad I didn't change, because it ultimately was the best most direct path for ER. You mentioned previously 3 more years is all you need. Does that mean complete financial independence and no more work ever needed to do? Before you switch jobs/careers, try to envision yourself 5 years from now. Would it be bliss in knowing you haven't done a lick of work in 2 years with a joyful wife who was able to continue her happily stay at home status? Or could it be you or both toiling away still in an unsatisfying job(s) with several more years to go wishing you had sucked it up and finished the whole thing off and been done with it 2 years ago? Just a counter thought to consider as sometimes our minds don't see things in the future they way they are in the present.
 
rdy4er said:
Thanks to everyone for the advice. After reading all these post it would seem almost all are in favor of getting out of the stressful situation now rather than keeping my head down and plugging away for a few more years to reach FI.
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And yet, there was another, similar thread recently, and a lot of people there were saying to stick it out. I'm not sure what the difference is. YMMV, depending on the people who choose to respond.

It seem like my DW is getting a lot of the blame in not helping or sympathizing with the situation. I have to admit that I am not very good at communicating my feelings, actually terrible at it.

I can open up here anonymously better than one on one with her, so she probably doesn't fully grasp the problem.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that makes sense. A lot of guys (including me) have trouble with that.

You need her on board. So, you really should open up to her about how miserable you are.

One option is to print out this thread and have her look it over. You might warn her in advance that some people (ahem) misunderstood her role, because they didn't realize you hadn't ever expressed yourself to her about this.

That'll just be the start. You'll have to really get the message across, in your speech and body language, so that she really gets it. Men usually get hung up not wanting to appear weak and fragile, so they don't let people know how much they're hurting. Or they get into trying to protect the women in their lives ("I don't want her to worry"). I'd suggest you push past those fears and let her know exactly how you've been feeling.

I think she'll start to pitch in and help, once she knows how much you're hurting. She probably just doesn't realize.
 
rdy4er said:
Thanks to everyone for the advice. After reading all these post it would seem almost all are in favor of getting out of the stressful situation now rather than keeping my head down and plugging away for a few more years to reach FI.

I tend to agree, it's not worth the toll that the stress takes out of you.

It seem like my DW is getting a lot of the blame in not helping or sympathizing with the situation. I have to admit that I am not very good at communicating my feelings, actually terrible at it.
I can open up here anonymously better than one on one with her, so she probably doesn't fully grasp the problem.
Click to expand...


I actually see that most people are not telling you to change careers, but I think someone would have to count to be sure...

I think most are telling you to find a way to reduce stress.... that might not be changing your career....


After reading some more posts... I am leaning for the suck it up for 3 years.... you say you place a lot of the stress on yourself.... so changing careers will not take that away..... IOW, you will be stressed out where ever you go.... but with less pay....
 
OP, I sympathize with your wife, with what little I know of your situation. It scares some women, who have put a great deal of effort into their careers, to have a child...it's why some of us wait almost too long. I imagine it's equally scary going the other direction..."I'm a mom, and now I have to try to break into the work world, too? Deal with a boss and co-workers and a timetable? And on top of that, my always-like-a-rock husband is saying we may need to move the whole family into a 1,000 square foot house?"

If I were she, I'd have all the shields up, going "La, la, la, la, I don't hear you." But if your survival really depends on her contributions, you need to get that across somehow.

The last thing she wants is for you to keel over with a heart attack or God forbid, have an accident while flying. Where would she and the little ones be, then? So keep trying. You now have several forum members pulling for you, if that helps :angel:

Amethyst

rdy4er said:
It seem like my DW is getting a lot of the blame in not helping or sympathizing with the situation. I have to admit that I am not very good at communicating my feelings, actually terrible at it.
I can open up here anonymously better than one on one with her, so she probably doesn't fully grasp the problem.
Click to expand...
 
It seems to me that communication (or lack thereof) is at the root of this problem. Both you and DW may be making assumptions about each other's wishes and needs. You have communication protocols in the cockpit (crew resource management) which help maintain safety, and you need a similar process to maintain the family integrity. Coming to a mutual understanding will be a process, not just one conversation, and I think you two will need the help of a good facilitator who can work with you.
 
I think none of us know what anyone else should do. My brother had a tough but good job that due to a public pension would set him free at age 51-30 years after he started. He was also a musician, and his band was heading off on an Asian tour. He wanted to quit his school job and go.

My Dad, who knew him pretty well, and loved him, talked him to sticking it out. It seemed to work fine, but we did not know that he was drinking his liver into its demise. Men in our family tend to live a long time, but he was dead by 57, thanks to liver disease that got him before he could get a transplant- and very likely he would have killed the new liver too.

I am very aware of power structures in different situations, but it is impossible to know how it breaks in any particular family or group. It is also impossible to know a ta distance how close to the edge someone may or may not be. No way would I want the responsibility of telling anyone what he or she should do.

Ha
 
I'm very familiar with the stresses an airline pilot career puts on one and fully understand OPs desire to get out of that line of work. The glamour days of being an airline pilot are long, long gone; and very unlikely to ever return.

There's a lot of psychology going on in this discussion. What I don't see is evaluation of the FIRE option given that the OP has 19x annual expenses saved. This is certainly enough to at least take a year or two sabbatical from the land of the employed. I would give serious consideration to this option. Set up a plan and execute it. I'd plan for a year off just to decompress with no expectation of future employment. Just forget about working and reward yourself for being so diligent for the past 20 years. Take care of yourself and have fun with your DW and DD. You'd be surprised what unknown opportunities will present themselves during this time.

I'd spend the second year evaluating different career options and start to network in preparation of joining the land of the employed if this is the course you choose to take.

I gave up a very lucrative career less than two months ago on 19x annual expenses. ESPlanner convinced me that I could comfortably maintain my standard of living based on that amount, so I choose to ER at age 49. You can find a free basic version here:

Home | ESPlannerBasic

Check it out, you too may be surprised at the findings. Either way, I hope you can eventually find peace.

Good Luck...Nano
 
Can you elaborate a bit more about what exactly causes the stress and the associated lack of sleep? Is it lack of sleep leading to stress or the other way around? What is a typical schedule for you when you are working, and when you are off? Are there ways you could continue to use your flying skills outside your current job -- piloting sightseeing flights in scenic places, or piloting some rich person/company's private jet? Is the Air National Guard an option as a bridge to retirement? Maybe none of these are viable, but it might help us help you think through the options if we had a few more details.

Echo the sentiments about the importance of good communication with your wife. I've worked our entire marriage so I really don't get the whole "I need to be home for the kids" thing, especially after they are in school all day, but I have told my DH at times of particular stress in his job that I would support whatever decision he wanted to make -- if he wants to quit and try something else, I'd be fine with that. Heck, if he wants to retire early I'd be fine with that, too (as long as he agrees to leave Beijing -- we can't support our lifestyle here without his income) His health and our marriage/family happiness is more important than preserving his golden handcuffs. I hope he would say the same to me (actually he more or less has -- supported me to leave a job that was doing serious mental/emotional damage when I needed to, without another job lined up).
 
I second the suggestion of the EAP or a visit to the Dr. where you talk about some of the anxiety that's keeping you awake at night. I worked commercial construction for 6 months and suffered the same sleeplessness about What Could Happen On the Job (it was a major underground tunnel project with some unique risks). Finally, after quitting and returning to my former desk job, I saw a Dr. who accurately diagnosed and treated my depression. I can't say how much of it was genetics and how much was a poor job fit (actually, a lot was genetics, LOL), but I certainly had an easier time making life decisions once the depression-anxiety-insomnia was being treated. I certainly sympathize with the big questions you're facing.
 
Is there any possibility to get,a job in a related position. I know that my neighbor was a pilot for years and then took a job with the FAA doing flight checks and eventually became an administrator. He has since retired.
 
Update:

I've reach the tipping point and decided to pack it in. Life's too short to be miserable 3 weeks a month. I'm currently on the other side of the world, but will be giving my two weeks notice when I get back.

The wife is on board, although probably slightly worried. I plan on taking six months to a year off and try to figure out the next step.

It will be strange to see the savings decrease instead of increase but I believe I will figure something out. I don't know what the future holds but who does?
 
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