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Old 02-10-2019, 09:45 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by brewer12345 View Post
This is as long as it needs to be. Do not say anything in an exit interview or survey.

Totally agree
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Old 02-10-2019, 11:03 AM   #22
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A tough call. I discussed a similar situation not long ago with a person very much in your position. Also a government organization that was operated much like your description. For example, one employee on a regular basis would schedule leave with a vacation day, sick day, vacation day. The manager accepted the leave as requested. And that was just the tip of the iceberg.

In the end, your management knows what is happening and they are participating. I think it comes down to your desire to help create the change that is required for those well meaning employees and especially the clients left behind. I expect the clients are taking the biggest brunt of the poor employee behavior. That would be the key reason for writing the letter. Perhaps, one day it will improve client delivery if your letter makes it to the files. Deciding how and where in the organization you want to present it might be important. Good luck, not an easy decision.
Well, they keep track of sick day leave and patterns. But even if someone calls in every Sunday for weeks on end, no one ever does anything about it. Most people have enough sense to get on FMLA and they call in whenever they want and then nothing can be done about it. You can get on FMLA leave for anything from headaches to feeling a little blue every once in a while.

I think the main reason I feel I can complain and moan is because I am quite young (33) and I still have so many options in my life for something better. I don't think I would say anything that would be offensive enough for them to give a bad reference. From what I understand, the only people who can give references at my place of employment is HR and they can only tell people when you were employed and if you left on good terms. Good terms being voluntary resignation after giving 2 weeks notice. Our county policy will prohibit them from releasing other information, such as a resignation letter or complaint.

I know everyone is responsible for themselves, but many people keep working there because they are stuck. They invested to much time to leave, they have a sick spouse and need the insurance, too old, etc. Part of the idea is speaking up could potentially help my peers. Even if unlikely...
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Old 02-10-2019, 11:21 AM   #23
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I have been in disaster places of employment multiple times. Earlier in my career I spoke up as I left. After a while, I simply stopped bothering. Why? If they do not care enough to make changes while you are around, what makes you think the suggestions of a departing employee (who they REALLY no longer care about) will make them act differently? Simple, it will not. Save yourself the risk that what you say will follow you in a negative way in your future life. Shut up, collect your last check, and be glad you are getting out. Loose lips sink ships.
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Old 02-10-2019, 12:48 PM   #24
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I think the main reason I feel I can complain and moan is because I am quite young (33) and I still have so many options in my life for something better. I don't think I would say anything that would be offensive enough for them to give a bad reference. From what I understand, the only people who can give references at my place of employment is HR and they can only tell people when you were employed and if you left on good terms.
I am in the "say nothing, don't burn bridges" camp:
You never know if someone who gets your letter might be involved in your career again in the future, either as a leader, a colleague, etc.

The Only-HR rule is often broken. Recruiters and hiring managers call former employers directly for off-the-record tips, and they are given, or hints are heavily dropped, with greater frequency than you'd think.

You are young and have a lot of options, you could find you shut some of those off (without knowing it for years), by expressing your concerns. That doesn't mean don't do it, but it does mean you should not think you're safe from a down side.
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Old 02-10-2019, 12:57 PM   #25
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Check with your HR Department. Most government places of employment and many Mega Corps have a form for voluntary terminations, rather than using resignation letters.

Those forms usually have just a few " Check the box " reasons. like " Retirement", " Resignation" " Resignation in lieu of involuntary termination " ( this one saves your pension if you were to be fired ).

I had 3 " exit interviews"over the years. and those were solely for procedural things like last check, stopping deductions, COBRA, etc. none had any "why are you leaving " aspect.

Most mid to large employers don't give a rat's ass , and consider opinions as worthless.

If you are sure, just give the standard amount of notice, don't look back.
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Old 02-10-2019, 01:29 PM   #26
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Thanks for the input. I'm not overly concerned about the reference from this place. Going into the nursing field it is a high demand. They will hire you even with a less favorable reference .

But I do plant to get some experience as a nurse and use those as better references.
Don't be silly, no you will NOT get hired and trained as a new grad RN with a less than favorable reference.

Not sure what part of the country you live in but Trained RN's are indeed in high demand BUT few hospitals want the expense of a new grad program.
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Old 02-10-2019, 01:42 PM   #27
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Don't be silly, no you will NOT get hired and trained as a new grad RN with a less than favorable reference.

Not sure what part of the country you live in but Trained RN's are indeed in high demand BUT few hospitals want the expense of a new grad program.
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Old 02-10-2019, 02:23 PM   #28
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I am in the "say nothing, don't burn bridges" camp:
You never know if someone who gets your letter might be involved in your career again in the future, either as a leader, a colleague, etc.

The Only-HR rule is often broken. Recruiters and hiring managers call former employers directly for off-the-record tips, and they are given, or hints are heavily dropped, with greater frequency than you'd think.

You are young and have a lot of options, you could find you shut some of those off (without knowing it for years), by expressing your concerns. That doesn't mean don't do it, but it does mean you should not think you're safe from a down side.

+1

Never burn a bridge. You never know what will happen in the future. You may find a future employer has a spouse/relative/neighbor who works with you today and is too happy to share your parting criticism when asked...or the career change doesn’t work out and you need to return to this field.
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Old 02-10-2019, 02:42 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Tykimeister View Post
Part of the idea is speaking up could potentially help my peers. Even if unlikely...
This is touching and I'm sure very genuine. But, I'd go with . . .


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Originally Posted by brewer12345 View Post
If they do not care enough to make changes while you are around, what makes you think the suggestions of a departing employee (who they REALLY no longer care about) will make them act differently? Simple, it will not. Save yourself the risk that what you say will follow you in a negative way in your future life. Shut up, collect your last check, and be glad you are getting out. Loose lips sink ships.
There is very little be gained, for anyone, by making any "frank" comments during an exit interview or in a letter to HR or the upchain folks. It will not help those you are leaving behind and could hurt you.

I say this knowing I would have felt differently at age 33.
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Old 02-10-2019, 02:48 PM   #30
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It is a j*b. Simply tell them when your last day of work will be and go.
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Old 02-10-2019, 02:49 PM   #31
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No advice, but a ray of light.
Memories of 1969... Highest performance rating among 23 peers, but passed over for promotion due to corporate politics. Age 33, with three kids at the time.
It was a moral decision to leave, and deemed by my peers to be a big mistake. Two months out of work, but then actively recruited and hired by the #1 competitor... at double the previous salary.

I still feel good about the decision.
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Old 02-10-2019, 02:54 PM   #32
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Never a good reason to badmouth anything when you resign.



One of the most important questions I asked previous employers when I was hiring was: " Is your previous employee eligible for rehire?" If not, I would only be interested in that person if they were significantly superior to all the other candidates for the position.
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:01 PM   #33
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I agree with Brewer; simply tell them what your last day will be. Prepare for it to be sooner than you say.
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:01 PM   #34
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Another point: When interviewing for new positions in the future, you will be asked:
Why did you leave your previous employer?

Resist any temptation to bad mouth or whistle blow here. Speak only to career opportunities, or something with zero accusation. A hiring manager who gets any whiff that you were unhappy with your old gig, imagines you will soon have similar complaints about the new role, no matter how different. Never tell a new company/boss that you had any issue with the old company/boss. At least not for a few years.
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:21 PM   #35
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Just as many have said, make it short and to the point. Don't worry about an exit interview, it will likely not result in any changes. Just say you are leaving to pursue new opportunity.
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:59 PM   #36
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...I don't think I would say anything that would be offensive enough for them to give a bad reference. From what I understand, the only people who can give references at my place of employment is HR and they can only tell people when you were employed and if you left on good terms. Good terms being voluntary resignation after giving 2 weeks notice. Our county policy will prohibit them from releasing other information, such as a resignation letter or complaint...
The world is a smaller place than you think it is. HR people move on to new employers where you might want to apply. Other hiring managers have friends who used to work at the place named on your resume, so they call and ask about you and get an earful about someone who burns bridges on his way out the door. I think you would be shocked at the amount of informal reference checking that goes on and policies about who can or cannot give references have almost no effect. Every good hiring manager knows how to get around them.

Your wisest choice would be to do nothing memorable as you leave. If you insist on writing a critical letter in the hope that it'll somehow make a difference, then at least go into it with your eyes open and knowing that your actions will very likely have negative repercussions on you for many years to come.
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Old 02-10-2019, 04:12 PM   #37
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While I doubt it was my exit interview which played a role in it, a few years after I left the company in late 2008 they allowed employees to telecommute part-time, maybe 1 day a week. I did mention in my exit interview that I thought their ending of open-ended telecommuting was a bad idea (I had been mostly telecommuting for 2 years until it was ended 5 years before I left, and how that policy change pushed me further toward leaving), and gave the HR flunkie an article supporting telecommuting. So, did my criticism of the end of telecommuting lead to their reinstituting it?
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Old 02-10-2019, 04:31 PM   #38
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Never a good reason to badmouth anything when you resign.



One of the most important questions I asked previous employers when I was hiring was: " Is your previous employee eligible for rehire?" If not, I would only be interested in that person if they were significantly superior to all the other candidates for the position.
As a manager the most severe thing I could do to someone leaving was to put them on the no-rehire list. There were a few who were so happy to hear they didn't have to work out their last two weeks. [emoji23]
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Old 02-10-2019, 04:44 PM   #39
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They used to do exit interviews, especially with employees who were with the organization for several years.

I know several people who had 10+ years and no exit interview was given.
That is because they know of the issues and don't want to be in a position to acknowledge knowledge. "We had no idea..." Liability.
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