life is good....for her

[JustNtime]

In this economy -- do someone else a favor and leave the job open for someone who really needs it. That's what we're doing... At least four people have jobs today because DW and I choose NOT to work. (We both worked harder than any two average folks). With double digit unemployment, it just seems greedy to have a job we don't need (or WANT)... So we're doing our part to reduce the unemployment rates. Too bad more aren't following our 'selfless' example. IF the country should ever achieve full employment and need additional workers, please give us a call at 1-800-JUST-Joking...

 

[Sarah in SC]

Damn my husband is a lucky b@st@rd. That is all I can really say here.

You've gotten some good advice and I'd suggest you explore this more with a counselor if need be--just to keep it from getting heated.

You are reasonable, she is reasonable, you both love each other and want to spend more time doing what you want. Sounds like a good place to start, to me.

Good luck to you in this!

 

[harley]

Just a POV from a guy who has been through a few things. I think having a parent at home when a young teen gets off of school is pretty important. Those few hours between when they get off school and both parents get home can result in arrests, grandchildren, or other potential speedbumps on the road to early retirement. I'm not speaking to the job/no job thing here, but IMHO SAHMism doesn't necessarily end when the kids turn into teens. YMMV.

But just to throw my 2 cents in, I agree with the group that says you would come out further ahead by cutting costs and working together toward LBYM than you would by adding her (probably small to start with) income. If she wants a job, that's her choice, but I don't think it's the answer to your dilemma.

 

[JustNtime]

Damn my husband is a lucky b@st@rd. That is all I can really say here.

Too Bad -- Does it have anything to do with your HULA talent? Care to offer a clue or two?

Perhaps we can name that tune, if you give us a few notes...

 

[freebird5825]

Disclaimer: I have always been a full fledged career woman who has morphed into a SAHHE (stay at home household engineer*) less than 3 years ago when I FIREd.

I'm still having trouble figuring out why the Mrs. can't get a part time job while the teens are in school. It really escapes me.

Everyone should contribute to the good of the household, including things that reduce stress levels. Kids or no kids really doesn't make a difference with respect to a woman's employment. To me personally, it boils down to each partner contributing to the good of the union, to the best of their ability.

THEN: As far as the recession goes, yours truly found w*rk, low paying but still decent wages, with no real j*b experience in 1980. I wanted to help pay the bills when LH got a post college job offer and I didn't. We were a team.

NOW: Besides contributing my own income (not wages) to the bills and expenses, I run the household while dh2b w*rks. We are partners.

*new acronym alert

 

[Lazarus]

Muir,

Jumping in here, although I haven't read all the preceding posts. I feel your pain. You're in a bad situation. Your spouse ( I'm projecting from my own experience) thinks you "do not love her" if you resent the fact the she loafs while you slave. Your minister or rabbi will hand you a pamphlet entitled "the Gift of Inadequacy" and send you on your way ( you are the inadequate one, not the wife) if you go to him for advice.

She will not feel any pity or empathy for you. The only way out is to just quit working, or better yet, get laid off or just get fired, and not get another job. When the bills pile up, and HER lifestyle suffers, she will think about going back to work.

Caveat : if you end up making the little princess mad or sad, you risk losing 50 to 60 percent of all the assets YOU have earned in a miserable self-flagellating way for year after miserable year, if she files for divorce. Plus enormous child support payments.

You've got to make her feel the pain too, but don't make it look like you are doing it on purpose.

Great post! Some people think they are "entitled", if you know what I mean.

 

[Walt34]

Bottom line. I want her to go back to work. We could sock her entire paycheck into our savings thus greatly helping the ER goal. I guess she may not be as motivated because her ER already began years ago. She seems less motivated to LBYM as well.

Bottom line: She left her job when you wanted her to, she found out she likes not working, now you want her to go back to work because that's what you want.

It looks to me like you changed your mind and now want to change the rules of the game.

When I retired DW was working at a good paying but high stress job, which she quit. I took a spousal benefit option that cut significantly into my retirement bennies so as to make sure she would be all right if I got The Big Ache shortly after retirement, as I've seen happen to so many others. She was apprehensive about leaving her job and intended to get another after things settled down after the move. But six months later, friends and relatives were saying "You two look more relaxed than we've seen you in years" so we knew we'd done the right thing. And you can't put a price tag on that.

Here is the key: I promised her that if she went along with the retirement and move, she would "never have to work again if she didn't want to".

And I will keep that promise. It's called commitment.

She went back to school, earned her BA that she started on 20+ years ago, and is now looking for a job that will be a good fit for her. If she finds one she likes, that's fine. If she doesn't, that's fine too. I'd much prefer having a relaxed happy wife than a stressed-out employed one working at something she doesn't want to do, working for... what?

The employment market here is bad, like just about everywhere else. A couple of years ago she applied for a part time $9/hour secretary job at a nearby university and they had multiple Ph.D's applying for it, so apparently a lot of other people ditched the city life for the more laid-back West Virginia lifestyle.

It helps that in some ways she is more frugal than I am, and can crunch the numbers with the best of them so we rarely have differences about money, which is really about priorities.

 

[ziggy29]

Bottom line: She left her job when you wanted her to, she found out she likes not working, now you want her to go back to work because that's what you want.

It looks to me like you changed your mind and now want to change the rules of the game.

...

Here is the key: I promised her that if she went along with the retirement and move, she would "never have to work again if she didn't want to".

And I will keep that promise. It's called commitment.

That's a good thing. But did the OP say anything about his wife "never having to work again" as long as they lived, or was there some assumption that it only applied while being a mom was a full-time job in itself?

Having said that, as has been mentioned repeatedly in this thread, this is a terrible time to be looking for a job, and one should probably feel somewhat blessed in this situation if you *can* thrive on one income (particularly if it's fairly secure). As a couple that recently went through that for close to a year before finding success, we can surely attest to that. (Again, we had no kids in the picture which makes the decision for her to go back was easier and more of a no-brainer, I think.) My concern is that looking now when you may not have to could lead to getting very discouraged.

One more thought here. One of the things I liked about having a stay-at-home spouse was that all the errands that need to be done "during the day" get done. She could do all the stuff for us that I couldn't do during working hours. She could do the grocery shopping, go to the post office, take the cars in for maintenance, all that stuff. These are things which, with two full-time working spouses, will be a little more difficult to fit into the schedule. That could increase the stress and "hassle factor" of living as well, and the overall impact on quality of life (not measured in terms of income in this case) should be considered. Now I have to find time to do some of these things and do roughly half the housework (plus or minus a bit, since we try not to "keep score" on these things).

If you're both burned out and tired and sick of dealing with w*rk -- especially while you still have dependent children in the house -- who's going to do these things?

 

[Sarah in SC]

Too Bad -- Does it have anything to do with your HULA talent? Care to offer a clue or two?

Perhaps we can name that tune, if you give us a few notes...

Well among other things, I am the driver of our FIRE goals, even getting a CFP in order to feel more comfortable with our investment plans, just so he can quit work first! That has always been my push--for him to get to retire, even if I'm not going to be able to do it at the same time.

This is such a 180 degree out from the OP's situation that I feel I should remind DH of his luck in luring in a young lass such as myself to work in his stead.

And yes, JustN, I do have some other, ahem, skills.

 

[FinanceDude]

And yes, JustN, I do have some other, ahem, skills.

Darn, I keep tellin' DW this is a G-rated forum.....thanks for making me a liar...........

 

[ziggy29]

Darn, I keep tellin' DW this is a G-rated forum.....thanks for making me a liar...........

I guess it wasn't enough that we menfolk only be jealous of her healthy income and commitment to helping her husband FIRE...

 

[JustNtime]

Well among other things, I am the driver of our FIRE goals, even getting a CFP in order to feel more comfortable with our investment plans, just so he can quit work first! That has always been my push--for him to get to retire, even if I'm not going to be able to do it at the same time.

This is such a 180 degree out from the OP's situation that I feel I should remind DH of his luck in luring in a young lass such as myself to work in his stead.

And yes, JustN, I do have some other, ahem, skills.

I guess he really did get LUCKY...

Although, it sounds like your plan is for him to get to ER 'first', you'll likely have the younger retirement age.
(Perhaps serving less time in overall servitude).
Hopefully, that perspective might get you through those final years after his retirement.
When he's out afiddlin' and your still in aslavin'.
Too bad you two couldn't 'come together' to retirement...

 

[unclemick]

?

So after reading this thread - the OP is the bad guy - at the very least he should go out and get a second job to speed the way to ER.

But not too exhausting so his wife can employ her 'other skills.'

heh heh heh - I think I took a wrong turn reading this threads posts. . My Curmudgeon certificate says - when in doubt cut expenses. As in really cut - and watch out for divorce lawyers.

 

[Bimmerbill]

If you can't get her to buy into some LBYM or ER stuff, start a seperate bank/investment account and start socking away $$. Maybe put bonuses or pay raises into it, and maintain your level of living you now have.

 

[rescueme]

I'm glad I'm not married to some of you.

At the same time? Wouldn’t that be polygamy?

 

[JustNtime]

Speaking as someone who has never had to worry about who's turn it is to cook, do the dishes, do laundry, vacuum, make the bed, pick up, dust, drive the kids to/from school/activities, attend teacher conferences, nurse sick kids(or me), or even take out the trash; I wouldn't say that OP is "bad", just very short sited. Like Sarah's hubby, I'm very lucky for oh so many reasons. SO coax and coerce and guilt her into getting that job -- agreeing of course to pick up your 'fair' share of the SAHM duties and be prepared for a continued dose of the same fairness in ER. Just some words of wisdom from the few, the proud, the single income based ER...

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

Quick response here. I'm taking the side of the OP. He sounds like he's becoming miserable in his current gig and wants more personal fulfillment in his life before it's too late to enjoy it. His wife, on the other hand, has had YEARS of time to pursue her personal enjoyment while raising their one child. It is only fair that she help him reach ER (or be able to find a more fulfilling and probably lower-paying gig) by doing one of two things: (1) getting a job that pays a decent wage, or (2) cutting their expenses. It is NOT FAIR for her to continue to enjoy life while her husband grows more and more miserable. That is what leads to resentment and ultimately divorce.

 

[harley]

Quick response here. I'm taking the side of the OP. He sounds like he's becoming miserable in his current gig and wants more personal fulfillment in his life before it's too late to enjoy it. His wife, on the other hand, has had YEARS of time to pursue her personal enjoyment while raising their one child. It is only fair that she help him reach ER (or be able to find a more fulfilling and probably lower-paying gig) by doing one of two things: (1) getting a job that pays a decent wage, or (2) cutting their expenses. It is NOT FAIR for her to continue to enjoy life while her husband grows more and more miserable. That is what leads to resentment and ultimately divorce.

I don't think anybody here has suggested that they not sit down and work on cutting expenses and LBTM. However, I challenge you to take 20 years out of the job market, then run right out and real quick get a decent paying job during the worst job market in 40 years or more.

If the OP is so miserable (not the way I read the post) that he's going to sink into depression resulting in resentment and divorce, I think therapy would be of more help than his wife getting a job. However, the way I read he post is that he'd like to retire earlier and would like is wife to help make that possible. There are numerous ways to accomplish that, but only well thought out communication is going to make it happen. Until that has been done this is all conjecture. She might balk, she might jump at the various opportunities, she might file for divorce and leave him penniless and miserable. But nothings going to happen until the first move is made.

I think it would be helpful to look into low skilled jobs in the area, see what kind of salaries there are. Talk to some admins or HR in your company, see what starting pay and job requirements look like. Figure out how much (approximate) take home would be, look into tax bracket implications, all those other things people have posted about. Then figure out some LBYM changes that might approximate the income level and have those available. Then when you sit down and talk about things you will have some answers if she has questions. And don't dump it all out at once. Let her know how you feel, give her time to think about it. Make sure she knows you are unhappy working (if you are). Take your time. Then as the subject becomes more familiar bring out the charts and spreadsheets.

If you approach this from an adversarial POV you'll probably get the outcome some of the more extreme posts suggest. If you do it slowly and with respect you might get the same response, but your chances are better, IMHO. Good luck.

 

[MuirWannabe]

harley,

You describe pretty much the approach I've decided on. BTW, not depressed. Certainly not interested in a divorce. Just want to FIRE at age 55 with as much money as we can save thru increased income and LBYM.

I want to kiss my job goodbye but I'm not gonna go mental or get divorced because of it.