Pre-nuptial Agreement to Protect FIRE Nestegg

[Spanky]

Jay,

See "Is a Prenuptial Agreement Right for You?"

http://www.nolo.com/article.cfm/Obj...0-3064-4680-B419B66BA296767C/118/304/247/ART/

 

[Nords]

As for calling Nords "old", I did no such thing.  I have respect for my elders.

No problem, son, you'll remember this day when a dewy-eyed 20-something gazes respectfully up at you and calls you "Sir"...

Now I have to go polish all my reading glasses. Just as soon as I can find the damn things.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Nords...they're on your face.

Hmmm...bunch of INTJ engineers that are leos...

Both my wife and I are leos. Try that one out. She's 3 days older. Dont think there are any end to the 'cradle robber' jokes.

 

[wildcat]

My advice ---- don't do it

TH's post or one of the many said the important theme --- pre-nuptial is based on the idea that the marriage will fail and I don't think too many soon to be brides/grooms want to see something like that

Marry the right one the first time and forgetta about it

But hey don't listen to a single

 

[haha]

But hey don't listen to a single 

There is some good advice. 

 

[JB]

A prenup makes sense in many situations. Marriage is (among other things) a legal contract. It seems perfectly sensible to tailor it to your unique needs instead of relying on the state legistlature to decide for you.

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

I don't think too many soon to be brides/grooms want to see something like that

The resultant question of such statement is "why not?" Some have said pre-nups are unromantic. That's exactly right. They're not. But if a potential spouse suddenly loses his/her love for you after being asked to sign a pre-nup, s/he isn't the right person for you. Then again, the same could be said about the person who brings up the subject of a pre-nup.

Marry the right one the first time and forgetta about it

My grandfather, who is in his mid-90s and was married to my grandmother for over 65 years once told me that "you'll never know she's the right one one until you've been married to her for 20 years...but by that time, it's too late." Wise man my grandfather. This is as good a reason for a pre-nup as any.

But hey don't listen to a single

Being single doesn't have much to do with it. If you're married without a pre-nup, there isn't much you can do about it.

 

[wildcat]

I know there is some validity to a pre-nup and I am sure a lot of people with dough would like to have every potential bride to be sign one. But come on how practical is it? How is the other going to view it? I guess if you are hard up on the pre-nup then you should simply find a partner that is fine with the idea. I haven't met too many.

 

[haha]

I guess if you are hard up on the pre-nup then you should simply find a partner that is fine with the idea.  I haven't met too many.

Does this imply that you have been asking, and they have been refusing?

If so, they have been doing you a favor. I find a very helpful technique is always to turn a question around. If a woman asked me to sign a pre-nup, and I refused, what could be my motivation?

Looks to me like I might want to be paid to go away sometime down the road.

Not a great recommendation for the BTB.

Ha

 

[wildcat]

Does this imply that you have been asking, and they have been refusing?

Implies that I have asked ladies for their opinion but I don't have enough to entice them yet so I kind of asked them from a neutral perspective and still none liked the thought. 

Don't get me wrong I think pre-nups are a good idea but I am saying that it is not always reality

 

[haha]

Don't get me wrong I think pre-nups are a good idea but I am saying that it is not always reality

Well, I guess I just respectfully differ. In the holy trinity of "Buy, Sell, or Hold" anyone who says non to a prenup is IMO a sell.

Ha

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

Does this imply that you have been asking, and they have been refusing?

If so, they have been doing you a favor. I find a very helpful technique is always to turn a question around. If a woman asked me to sign a pre-nup, and I refused, what could be my motivation?

Looks to me like I might want to be paid to go away sometime down the road.

Not a great recommendation for the BTB.

Ha

I'll probably draw fire for this, but I'll say it anyway. 8)

Many women are interested in a guy, at least in part, because of his assets or potential to accumulate assets, in order to obtain the lifestyle to which they would like to become accustomed. This is one reason such women dislike the idea of a pre-nuptial agreement, since they would be denied such a lifestyle if they ever sought a divorce.

 

[KB]

Jay, I agree with you and I'm a woman.

But on the flip side, my net worth is in the 800K range and I would probably want a pre-nup if I ever married again. Oh, and I'm inheriting a lot too, so I want to protect that as well. And I have kids.

 

[wildcat]

Jay - I don't think you are out of line with that one. HaHa you have had luck with that type of proposal? Do you all not think you can tell what type of lifestyle a woman wants prior to marriage or is that part of a male's selective observation? A woman's friends, fam and her own lifestyle usually tells me where she wants to go. If she changes well then I guess I am screwed.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

My wife likes tee shirts and shorts, budweiser and sitting out on the patio in the evening as a 'vacation'. As long as its not too hot or cold out, but I have a portable heater and a cooler just for her. She would have signed a prenup if I asked her, but found that handing over half my money was a sign of my respect and trust in her. If things dont work out, that'll be a shame as she's the finest woman I've ever met and I'm honored to have her as my wife. If and when that worst day in my life happens, we'll work it out. Moneys just money. I'll make another million if I need to.

I just cant imagine laying out the terms of our divorce in a legal document before we were even married. If I felt I had to do that, then damn it, I'd have stayed single.

 

[kramer]

A good friend of mine, a woman in her mid-30s, told me that she was appalled at the idea of a pre-nup.

It turns out that she is wealthy, like probably a couple of million wealthy. But the vast majority of her assets are in a trust fund inherited from her grandfather and exclusively in her name.

I told her that to be fair and consistent, she should put her husband's name on the trust, if he puts all his assets into the marriage, as he would effectively be doing without a trust. She said no way, she would never do that. I pointed out the contradiction . . .

Kramer

 

[kramer]

wabmester wrote: I'm no lawyer, but I think the law in most states is that you get to keep what you brought into the marriage. So even if you decide not to do a prenup (which I agree is anti-romantic), the least you can do is to not comingle your assets. Just keep separate investment accounts, and create a joint account for paying the bills. Your spouse still gets your assets in the case of your death, but you'll have some protection in case of divorce. And you can discuss this strategy *after* the wedding, around the same time you're both updating your wills.

My understanding is that in a community property state that it is very, very easy to commingle, and that once you do, the entire account becomes community property.

I am not a lawyer, and would be interested in someone with more knowledge commenting on this.

But according to my understanding, using your Schwab ATM card a few times for joint expenses from your non-joint account (or writing a few checks from that account spending the dividends) makes the entire account community property. Same for adding to the account, even in small amounts for, say, rebalancing, from the joint marriage money. Comments appreciated.

Kramer

 

[Patrick]

My understanding is that in a community property state that it is very, very easy to commingle, and that once you do, the entire account becomes community property. 

I am not a lawyer, and would be interested in someone with more knowledge commenting on this.

But according to my understanding, using your Schwab ATM card a few times for joint expenses from your non-joint account (or writing a few checks from that account spending the dividends) makes the entire account community property.  Same for adding to the account, even in small amounts for, say, rebalancing, from the joint marriage money.  Comments appreciated.

Kramer

I believe you are correct.  Also, any money made by either spouse after you say "I do" is considered community property.  So if you auto-deposit your paycheck into what was formerly a "separate property" account, that money is now community money.  The theory is that the court cannot determine which dollars were earned before the marriage and which were earned after.  Also, if you own real property and allow the spouse to make part of a mortgage payment from his/her funds or use community funds to make the payment, that real property is now community property.  If you get a pension, the spouse is entitled to 50% of the amount of the pension accrued during the marriage (the amount accrued before or after the marriage is separate property). I am not a lawyer, this is just what I have been told by lawyers.   

 

[P.S.]

Gatsby:

I think being a lawyer has nothing to do with your wanting to set up a pre-nup. IMO, wanting a pre-nup has more to do with the wantee, the SO, and dynamics of relationship.

lawyers in husband's family: dad, grandfather, three uncles, two cousins, brother, sister = 0 prenups.

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

Gatsby:

I think being a lawyer has nothing to do with your wanting to set up a pre-nup.  IMO, wanting a pre-nup has more to do with the wantee, the SO, and dynamics of relationship.

lawyers in husband's family: dad, grandfather, three uncles, two cousins, brother, sister = 0 prenups.

I don't think so (obviously).  Rather, I think it has much more to do with the unpredictability of the effect that divorce can have pre-marital assets.  As a previous poster pointed out, and although the law varies state to state, commingling of pre-marital and intra-marital assets is a big no no.

Why leave things to a judge, or even worse, lawyers to decide? 

As a lawyer and a (former) litigator, I can tell you dozens of stories about how nasty we can be when acting as a "zealous advocate" for a client -- (I kid you not, that's the ethical standard).  

 

[vic]

I live in TX and that is a community property state. We were planning to do a prenup. I called a couple of lawyers and they only seemed to do custody and divorce cases, barely anybody did prenups. I got quotes as crazy as $10,000 although our assets at that time were less than $150K. I also doubt to what extent a prenup will really hold up in a community property state like TX. If I were to do a postnup now I think I would draft up a document that states what is owned by who without getting to anal and then state that the services of a mediator should be used first in case of a separation. Anyway, have not given it much thought lately.

Vicky

 

[unclemick]

In LA - you either hire a hit man (the wife) or buy yourself a judge (hubby). Two high profile cases down here.

Soap Opera! - we don't need no stinking soap opera!!!

 

[Mr._johngalt]

I wrote our pre-nup. Rock solid as far as I know. Hopefully
will never be tested. Also, no commingling of any kind.
Separate everything.

JG

 

[moghopper]

Also, no commingling of any kind.

Not even on Saturday night?

 

[unclemick]

I've always been fond of co-mingling - just not financial assets.