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07-09-2020, 03:57 PM
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#61
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 9,358
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DH and I both have had a few jobs where it didn't matter where we went to school, but having a 4 year degree mattered whether or not we got the job. We have encouraged our kids to get 4 year degrees. I would suggest looking at combinations of online classes, community college, CLEPs, paid internships, financial aid and in state public schools. In our state the financial aid family income limit is quite high, I think around $90K for 2 kids in college and then tuition might be free at in state public schools. It doesn't really hurt to apply for financial aid and see what you might get.
Our kids' college cost us very little out of pocket. One had a 6 month payback period on a 4 year degree (tech field) and got to go to a great school near the beach in a lovely area. The other got hired full-time even before graduating from a paid internship and now has tuition reimbursement and has been recommended for an in company management training program.
Our kids were both good at networking, volunteer work and internships. Many kids starting out have degrees, but that field experience, even if unpaid, is hard to beat. Between a candidate with a degree and zero work experience and a candidate with a degree, several semesters of paid internship work and a glowing reference from a CEO, the latter might have the edge.
I think you are smart to weigh all your options and look at the cost benefit of college. I would look at the College Scorecard (all sorts of good stats on tuition costs vs salaries) and the Payscale Reports. The book The Millionaire Next Door has good information on the success of small business owners. And schools like Excelsior, Thomas Edison State College and a few others like them offer accredited, low cost degrees through distance learning geared towards working, adult learners - https://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/25/e.../25degree.html
__________________
Even clouds seem bright and breezy, 'Cause the livin' is free and easy, See the rat race in a new way, Like you're wakin' up to a new day (Dr. Tarr and Professor Fether lyrics, Alan Parsons Project, based on an EA Poe story)
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07-09-2020, 04:56 PM
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#62
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 12,654
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Well, meeting new friends and partying was definitely part of my CC experience.
Never gave football a thought, but can see where someone else might care. Again, COVID is messing this up anyway.
I lived with my parents, who were old-fashioned and strict. I used this to my advantage when possible (you'd be surprised how useful it could be), and got around it when not. And the food was better than any college cafeteria, plus I didn't have to pay for it
[QUOTE=Jacob8887;2454200]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amethyst
I'm curious...what "college experience" do you feel you'd be missing out on?
Living in a dorm, going to football games, meeting new friends, partying, etc.
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__________________
If you understood everything I say, you'd be me ~ Miles Davis
'There is only one success – to be able to spend your life in your own way.’ Christopher Morley.
Even a blind clock finds an acorn twice a day.
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07-15-2020, 11:37 PM
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#63
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 679
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OP I wish I was this serious about my life when I was at your age. If I get to do it all over again, I would put 99% of my energy on investing in my education and not just for the diploma. I want to learn as much stuff that helps me to do what makes a good life long career.
Things like IT in the cloud computing era, data analyst, robotics, or computing related in the healthcare system (electronic records, clinical decision making, AI, gene therapy and personalized / precision medicine, bioinformatics) are some of the areas that would be good to find your interest in.
I remember I did not know what to do until I was 30 so I have wasted at least 10 years. I was lucky to find a job after I got my masters degree at age of 36. You are ahead of me at least 14 years if you get to do what you like after college.
Not having the degree may work in the old times but it is getting tougher for someone with little experience to compete against other candidates in the job market.
On one hand you have lots of time since your not even 20. On the other hand, the sooner you graduate and make yourself an expert in a certain area, the faster you can start saving and investing, and then build your wealth. Definitely hit all the scholarship and get part time jobs you can find to avoid taking out student loans. Debt is number 1 enemy if your financial goal is to get wealthy in the shortest path possible.
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07-21-2020, 04:57 AM
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#64
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 12,654
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Heck, a degree was being held out as the best option when I was a kid in the 70's. The mantra was, either get a diploma the usual way, or do the GI bill thing.
(I see a lot of memes about how easy it was to get a job and buy a house, with no education, in the 1970's or 1980's. These do not accord with reality as I experienced it )
Quote:
Originally Posted by teetee
Not having the degree may work in the old times but it is getting tougher for someone with little experience to compete against other candidates in the job market.
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__________________
If you understood everything I say, you'd be me ~ Miles Davis
'There is only one success – to be able to spend your life in your own way.’ Christopher Morley.
Even a blind clock finds an acorn twice a day.
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07-21-2020, 10:02 AM
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#65
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Moscow
Posts: 1,572
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Strangely those memes always seem to get the impact of inflation wrong
__________________
You can't enlighten the unconscious.
But you can hit'em upside the head a few times to make sure they are really out...
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07-21-2020, 11:45 AM
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#66
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 12,654
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There are a lot of people 60+ years old on this forum. Does anybody recall it being common for a person (well, OK, a man), to get a job right out of high school, buy a house and support a family almost immediately? Young people seem fiercely wedded to memes that claim this was somehow common in the 1970's.
It sounds more like the 1950's to me, if it ever was true at all - and only true in certain one-business towns, e.g. Detroit - but then one couldn't use it to compare oneself with baby boomers, since they were only kids then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keim
Strangely those memes always seem to get the impact of inflation wrong
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__________________
If you understood everything I say, you'd be me ~ Miles Davis
'There is only one success – to be able to spend your life in your own way.’ Christopher Morley.
Even a blind clock finds an acorn twice a day.
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07-21-2020, 12:50 PM
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#67
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Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 23,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amethyst
There are a lot of people 60+ years old on this forum. Does anybody recall it being common for a person (well, OK, a man), to get a job right out of high school, buy a house and support a family almost immediately? Young people seem fiercely wedded to memes that claim this was somehow common in the 1970's.
It sounds more like the 1950's to me, if it ever was true at all - and only true in certain one-business towns, e.g. Detroit - but then one couldn't use it to compare oneself with baby boomers, since they were only kids then.
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I'm not sure it was ever true. When I graduated from high school in 1977, that did not appear to be the case; I had to join the military to get a job. I was 25 when the young wife and I got married, and we both had to work after that. It was not until we were 33/31 that we were able to buy a house.
__________________
Living an analog life in the Digital Age.
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07-21-2020, 01:18 PM
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#68
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Denver
Posts: 3,518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob8887
Hi all!
2. There are community college options, but I haven’t really considered them, as I feel like it’s not the real college experience.
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The real "college experience" is learning how to learn, learning how to think critically and for yourself. The pace of change keeps accelerating. You will not have just one career, but many - and the skills to reskill quickly will be the key to success. Even the definition of success may change
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob8887
3. I’m well aware of how my parents, peers, and society as a whole seem to push the idea of college. While it can be beneficial, there are many people who do just fine without a degree using an alternative path.
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There's something called survivorship bias. Statistically, people without a college degree do much worse than those with one. And don't for a moment think that those who do worse are just slackers. Many doors do not open for a person without a college degree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob8887
4. My passion is business/finance, that is most likely what I will study.
5. I don’t know what type of business I want to run, I just know that I want to run one.
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You do need some domain knowledge to run a business. The business/finance knowledge is obviously critical too.
Learn to have your own definition of success and don't let the hamster wheel crowd define it for you.
You're so far ahead of your peers in your thinking, that the probabilities are high that you will do well irrespective of what you choose. Good luck.
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07-21-2020, 02:58 PM
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#69
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 192
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Going straight from high school to a job was still pretty common in the early 70s. The steel mills were still hiring in those days as were many other manufacturers where you could get a good job. I would say by the late 70s to mid 80s that was becoming much more difficult. Surprisingly, the percentage of males going to college hasn't changed that much over the years since then - however, many of the men not going to college went into lower paying jobs than were available in the 60s and 70s. Good stats here: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d99/d99t187.asp
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07-22-2020, 05:00 PM
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#70
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,829
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gumby
I'm not sure it was ever true. When I graduated from high school in 1977, that did not appear to be the case; I had to join the military to get a job. I was 25 when the young wife and I got married, and we both had to work after that. It was not until we were 33/31 that we were able to buy a house.
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Ha. I graduated in 1977 as well and got married at 25 also.
We were 31(me) and 34(DW) when we bought our first house as well.
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07-22-2020, 06:27 PM
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#71
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Chicago West Burbs
Posts: 3,014
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In my personal experience, getting a job out of HS in the early 70's was not a problem. The problem was later on in life, when needing a job due to shutdowns and right-sizing. Regardless of my experience and past performance, not having the college diploma made it difficult to get the interview let alone the job. I managed to be paid well during my career in a technical field. My lack of diploma was a big factor in my ER. I would strongly recommend getting the paper to anyone today. The days of getting a job with a future out of HS are pretty much gone IMO, There are exceptions of course, but they are few and far between, not the norm.
Married at age 20-11/12. Bought our 1st house at age 25. Had 1st of 2 children at age 26.
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08-01-2020, 09:56 AM
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#72
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,911
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Post secondary education, college and university, changed my life.
Career opportunities, financial advantages, etc were benefits. The other benefit was life enrichment. Looking back, I am so thankful that I had the opportunity, made the effort, and moved forward with my life.
Invest in yourself.
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08-01-2020, 10:37 AM
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#73
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Dryer sheet aficionado
Join Date: Jul 2020
Posts: 25
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My Dad never went to college. He was a welder and saved his money, bought rental properties, and then got a great job in Alaska.
He was able to retire at age 50 but waited until he was 55. He never brought stress home with him, unlike most of us that work white collar jobs.
The issue with blue collar jobs is the sphere of influence, in many of those industries, that makes you want to spend all of your money on fancy cars, motorcycles, boats, etc.
__________________
Remember, just because someone doesn't have the same opinion as you doesn't mean they are a bad person.
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08-01-2020, 06:29 PM
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#74
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,600
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Quote:
Originally Posted by walkinwood
The real "college experience" is learning how to learn, learning how to think critically and for yourself.
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Academia remains one of the best places to gain an appreciation for - and practice - strenuous rational (SR) thinking (as opposed to lazy emotional (LE) thinking). Another good place to experience and practice SR thinking is in a corporate research lab; however, to get a corp research job you'll usually need academic credentials.
There's a lot more that could be said about the difference between SR and LE thinking. Let's just say that some folks believe that humans are at their very best when engaged in SR thinking.
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