Someone died at work today. 40 years old

[Original Wally]

Old trig, there is nothing wrong with how you feel and your beliefs. Even if I don't agree with a couple of your points, I think you, like me, are the product of your experiences, upbringing, age, and culture. What is right for you is simply right for you. And I appreciate your perspective, even if I may not come to the same conclusions.
Thank you for your ideas.

+1

 

[Original Wally]

I Split @ 55 1/2. Was ready for +3 years. Like others said, loved the w*rk... enjoyed it. Then an a**hole for a boss ruined it. The stories... oh my. In any case, it was no longer fulfilling. So I packed it in when the numbers came together. Had considered that after a year or two off I might be willing to re-enter the w*rkforce. Then I just started loving the freedom so much that NOW if I had to (choke... choke...) go back to w*rk (shudder...) it woud be a terrible thing. We are both so free and happy. No regrets.

 

[Milton]

[QUOTE="Koogie;]I honestly don't think I'll live to "old age" and even if I did.. who gives a cr*p. A lot of really old people have a poor quality of life anyway so why plan for it. You want to be the richest person in the old age home? To heck with that.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps. But quite a few older people (including some in their 90s) remain physically, mentally and socially active and have an excellent quality of life until shortly before death.

Daniel Gilbert ("Stumbling Upon Happiness") says that most people readily adjust to changes (both positive and negative). Except for a short period of adaptation, one's temperament is not significantly affected by the onset of physical disabilities etc.; and indeed, quite a few studies by psychologists / gerontologists (e.g., Derek Isaacowitz) suggests that senior citizens are typically happier than the middle-aged.

P.S. Since I FIRE'd, I've had the opportunity to volunteer in several different publicly-funded long-term care facilities. I've been very impressed with the caring nature of the professional staff. While I agree that it is not much fun being shut up in a nursing home essentially killing time while waiting to die, the perception that such places are miserable hell-holes doesn't have much basis in reality, at least in my limited experience.

 

[Milton]

If someone is only 40 in my opinion you have many years left ahead of you to enjoy life. Work is a big part of that life.

I probably quit in my mind 25 years before I did finally hang it up. I waited until I was what normally is excepted as retirement age.

I play golf with a person who is only 50. He plays way too much golf when he should be working. He is now in terrible financial shape and when I ask why he is playing so much golf he tells me his dad died at 69 so he going to enjoy life while he can. Again a bad mistake and terrible excuse not to work.

I guess I grew up in an era if you were young and did not work you were looked down on as lazy. Thats just how I was taught. You people that are only 40 and thinking about retiring early think real hard before you make that move.

You are fully entitled to your opinion; but you do realize that this is the "early" retirement forum, right?

I can't agree with the suggestion that someone who chooses not to work is ipso facto lazy, unfulfilled or financially reckless. As AWeinel noted, many early retirees do a lot of unpaid community support 'work'. If one is financially independent, paid employment is entirely optional.

Further, an argument could be made that someone who continues to hold a job they don't need is simply taking an opportunity away from another person who really needs it (as you correctly point out, jobs are scarce). That's especially true where the incumbent has 'retired in place'.

Within the bounds of legality and fiscal reality, everyone should do what seems right to him or her. Let's try not to judge or criticize other's decisions.

 

[Milton]

A few years ago the first person in my small high school class died (he was late 30's). The shocking thing was that (1) he committed suicide and (2) of all the people in my graduating class I think he was the person I would suspect least of having problems with depression.

As illustrated in Robinson's famous poem "Richard Cory" (1897), one never knows.

 

[comicbookgujy]

I went in for a check up and was diagnosed with a mental disorder related to work. Now I'm on 2 different pills.

Just received the result of my blood work and I have red blood cell problem, anemic, not enough iron. I have hypertension also and considered obsese at 26% body fat.

What does this mean? It means I haven't been taking care of myself. I have turned into the co-workers that I used to see and go "What the hell is wrong with these people? How did they let themself go like this" When I was in my 20's and early 30's, I would go to the gym 5 times a week and had a strict low fat diet. Now I'm so tired when I get home that I just drink to get myself to stop thinking of work...that's when I know I need to consider plan B.

Checked out my pension benefit and if I took early pension at age 55(in about 15 more years), I am entitled to $1,800 a month until I reach age 62, at that point, I would only get $100 a month since I elected to take early pension. Check SS and if it still exist as of today, I would get $1,700 a month if I apply for early SS at age 62.

If only I had invested in Apple stock when it was at $10 instead of ETOY or ATHOME .

 

[Milton]

I went in for a check up and was diagnosed with a mental disorder related to work. Now I'm on 2 different pills. Just received the result of my blood work and I have red blood cell problem, anemic, not enough iron. I have hypertension also and considered obsese at 26% body fat.... I'm so tired when I get home that I just drink to get myself to stop thinking of work...that's when I know I need to consider plan B.

Doesn't sound good! But at least you are aware of the situation and can start making changes. And as you previously followed a good diet and exercise routine, presumably it will be easier for you to resume it than it would be for a longstanding couch potato to revise lifelong habits.

If I may suggest without being patronizing: it's probably more productive for you to focus on your lifestyle changes (which are directly within your control, and should yield significant results relatively quickly) than thinking about FIRE (particularly when it comes to looking in the rear view mirror at missed opportunities). This is meant from the heart.

Good luck, and keep your chin up.

 

[JoeWras]

A death at work finally got me serious about my retirement planning. He was mid 50's and just didn't show up for work one day. Got the news later that he had a heart attack.

It can hit early. Coworker's brother expired at 35 from sudden cardiac death. No artery problems. Just doing what he always did, lift weights and run on the treadmill. Carpe diem and get your stuff in order -- just in case.

Anyway, I lurked here for many years off and on when some search landed me here. After my coworker's death last year, I joined and started participating. More importantly, I did the planning with firecalc and other planners to realize that ER was not only possible for me, but smart.

DW and I probably would have worked until 65 because "that's what you do." We have no kids and would have had too much money to spend. We're going to cut it closer now with the benefit of at least 10 years of no work BS -- assuming we live long enough. Hey, you never know.

 

[Candy83]

Having a co-worker die is no reason to retire early. Nobody knows when your last day on earth will be. If you enjoy what you are doing at work then I doubt retirement has entered your mind. We can all find excuses to quit work, bad day, terrible boss and I could go on and on. If someone is only 40 in my opinion you have many years left ahead of you to enjoy life. Work is a big part of that life.

I probably quit in my mind 25 years before I did finally hang it up. I waited until I was what normally is excepted as retirement age.

I play golf with a person who is only 50. He plays way to much golf when he should be working. He is now in terrible financial shape and when I ask why he is playing so much golf he tells me his dad died at 69 so he going to enjoy life while he can. Again a bad mistake and terrible excuse not to work.

I guess I grew up in an era if you were young and did not work you were looked down on as lazy. Thats just how I was taught. You people that are only 40 and thinking about retiring early think real hard before you make that move. Good jobs are really hard to find. Bad days at work are also plentiful. I will shut up now. oldtrig

^ All of that are good points.

One thing is this: No one can have someone else live his life. When one gets enough backbone, personally, he goes forward without referring to whether anyone has an opinion of his choice.

I don't think there's an ideal. No one is being given a medal for working until he reaches the age to collect full benefits from Social Security.

At the same time, a coworker having died while in his 20s, 30s, 40s, and 50s is cause for reflection ... but not an actual retirement. If one is going to let his mind wander there ... ask yourself, "Why ever work?" There are, after all, child deaths. Someone in his 10s. Someone who was still in single digits.

(Enough!)

The thing that doesn't get discussed too often is how retirement impacts an individual. What changes it brings. What it does or does not do to and for the psyche. My 80-year-old father has been retired for 15 years from a job he held for 43 years. He worked some years before that and, when you get down to it, he clocked in 50 years of his life with work. He told me, strange thing, after all this time in retirement he still can have an occasional dream which involves him being present in the work environment. It's weird. Yet it does occur.

We are conditioned to many things. Work is part of it. A big part of it. I am of the opinion that we're overworked and underrewarded in the U.S. And it is closer to the ideal to retire while one is still in his 50s. If you can go sooner ... even better. It's great for a person to be able to retire ... rather than die while still actively in one's work life. To be able to retire "early," in this screwed up period, requires unusual circumstances with an uncommon individual.

 

[Midpack]

It's great for a person to be able to retire ... rather than die while still actively in one's work life. To be able to retire "early," in this screwed up period, requires unusual circumstances with an uncommon individual.

What a great straight line, but I'll let it go (instead of taking another uncommon beating)...

 

[Stanley]

What does this mean? It means I haven't been taking care of myself. I have turned into the co-workers that I used to see and go "What the hell is wrong with these people? How did they let themself go like this" When I was in my 20's and early 30's, I would go to the gym 5 times a week and had a strict low fat diet. Now I'm so tired when I get home that I just drink to get myself to stop thinking of work...that's when I know I need to consider plan B.

Checked out my pension benefit and if I took early pension at age 55(in about 15 more years), I am entitled to $1,800 a month until I reach age 62, at that point, I would only get $100 a month since I elected to take early pension. Check SS and if it still exist as of today, I would get $1,700 a month if I apply for early SS at age 62.

I had the same problem at about 40. My job was killing me and making me unhappy. I did not have physical health problems, but I think that was only a matter of time. I was drinking both before and after work. I did not have the dollars to retire. So, knowing I had to work, I decided I would work at something at enjoyed. I went back to school, got additional training and found a new career. Now, I am retired with a small pension, plenty of personal savings, a LBYM attitude, and SS in the future.

It takes time and effort. If you have a spouse, he/she must go along with your plan to leave work and go back to school. Not having any debt except for the mortgage was a big help. Our mortgage was small due our NOT following the common advice to 'buy the biggest house you can barely afford."

One more thing, had I stayed in my previous career I believe I would have ended up as one of those 56 year old guys, laid off, unable to fight age discrimination, and draining my retirement resources to survive until SS at 62. Many of my former coworkers ended up in that sad situation.

I wish you all the best. Having a job you enjoy is the best way to not work.

 

[oldtrig]

You are fully entitled to your opinion; but you do realize that this is the "early" retirement forum, right?

I can't agree with the suggestion that someone who chooses not to work is ipso facto lazy, unfulfilled or financially reckless. As AWeinel noted, many early retirees do a lot of unpaid community support 'work'. If one is financially independent, paid employment is entirely optional.

Further, an argument could be made that someone who continues to hold a job they don't need is simply taking an opportunity away from another person who really needs it (as you correctly point out, jobs are scarce). That's especially true where the incumbent has 'retired in place'.

Within the bounds of legality and fiscal reality, everyone should do what seems right to him or her. Let's try not to judge or criticize other's decisions.

I do understand this is an early retirement forum. For me 65 is early retirement so I fit in quite well. How I think about someone retiring at a very young age means nothing. Only stating what I think and what I was taught growing up.

My Dad made us work when we were growing up. There was no such thing as any retirement back then as I remember, maybe in other parts of the US but not where I grew up. You worked and then you just died. I have just never seen to many people give up work at a very early age and be 100% happy. Some may tell you they are but most would be lying. Work is a big part of life and when someone really gets that job of a lifetime they normally just keep on going.

I have a first cousin who turns 80 next year and he is up at 4 am every morning. Never plans on giving up working because he loves it. Myself, I would have probably stayed on for a few more years but the workplace changed quick. I worked for a total jerk.

I laugh when I see him now. He is only 58 and trapped until death because of $$$$$ of debt. One thing for sure in this country. You are going to have to be lucky to retire young. Things are changing quick and I probably will not be around to see it. I wish anyone good luck that wants to try and retire at 40 and have enough money when they are 80. oldtrig

 

[haha]

Right or wrong I "give a cr*p" because the fear of 'living under a bridge eating cat food' is much stronger than my fear of 'being the richest person in the old age home' for me, especially at age 58. There's certainly no guarantee the latter is the inevitable outcome as your post implies, it would be easy if that were the case. I will loosen up in time, ideally I'll die broke.

Again, only 1 in 22 males will go poof at 40. 1 in 13 at age 50, 1 in 7 at age 60, 1 in 3.5 at age 70 and 1 in 2 at 80 (IOW, the average life span). I'm inclined to plan using the real odds, not the sad & unfortunate exceptions.

I am sure our views are all biased by our expectations re: life span. My parents are both 91 and still ticking, so my views are likely distorted to one extreme. Others with family history of short lifespans or known health problems may be understandably skewed to the other extreme. And some may be probability/statistics challenged and just fear being one of the exceptions despite the odds against it...

I understand your pov and share it. But your figures are odd. A 79 year old man has a much greater than 50% chance of seeing 80, likewise an 80 yo of seeing 81. I also think that retiring to avoid dying at work is totally weird. I've been retired a long time, and I enjoy my life, but if I were working at a job I liked, I would also enjoy that. Retiring does not give some sort of guarantee of not having an early death.

I also think the idea that one should try to run out of money just before death is odd. If a person hasn't thought of meaningful activities that go beyond spending money by the time he is old, he is in trouble.

Ha

 

[panhead]

^ To be able to retire "early," in this screwed up period, requires unusual circumstances with an uncommon individual.

I too love this line. For me, FI is the key, RE is secondary. I know for a fact that if I RE at 45 (as I would like) or 50 I would still do "some" work. The money I would make would be more of a bonus than a necessity, and it would be in something I enjoyed, and I would only do it as much as I desired. I've been in this situation before, and this is exactly what happened. I didn't plan on working, but things fell in my lap, and it was enjoyable, and most importantly, it was task-based....ie, it had a definite end. If I retired and started my own business and worked 50-60 hours a week, that's fine too, as long as it was what i wanted. I just really don't believe in the puritanical work ethic: you work, that's what you do....
no thanks.

 

[Mulligan]

I understand your pov and share it. But your figures are odd. A 79 year old man has a much greater than 50% chance of seeing 80, likewise an 80 yo of seeing 81. I also think that retiring to avoid dying at work is totally weird. I've been retired a long time, and I enjoy my life, but if I were working at a job I liked, I would also enjoy that. Retiring does not give some sort of guarantee of not having an early death.

I also think the idea that one should try to run out of money just before death is odd. If a person hasn't thought of meaningful activities that go beyond spending money by the time he is old, he is in trouble.

Ha

I have to agree with you. My lifestyle is set and my additional income I save each month will never be spent unless some unforeseen occurrence happens. I really don't ever see myself spending any more money than I currently do, inflation aside. I can understand Oldtrigs point of view as my father shares the same viewpoint. He is 76 and would still work daily if his body hadn't betrayed him. Still he works one day a week, and doesn't need a penny of income as he is set. It is just his work ethic that he maintained his whole life. Now I being retired before 50, don't share that same opinion. I don't regret retirement. Although, come to think of it, I have a little of it in me, as I have continued to work PT the past 3 years, even though I did not need to. Working at least 20 hours a week since 14, has brought about a certain routine in my life, but the habit is all but broke now. I enjoy my compartmentalized life of solitude during the day, being with my GF at night, and activities with my working friends on the weekend.

 

[NanoSour]

If only I had invested in Apple stock when it was at $10 instead of ETOY or ATHOME .

Those tickers bring back some memories

 

[Calgary_Girl]

Also 42 and starting to see the effects of stress on my body. Some of that stress is from work, while a large part is also due to having a 3 year old and 4-month old at home and a wife who works full time in a stressful career. I've spoken with DW about both of us scaling back in a few years, as we already have a nice nest egg between the two of us. Primary concerns are college tuition for the kids and health insurance.

I can totally understand this because both DH and I were stressed out trying to juggle careers, kids, etc. This is why we chose for me to become a SAHM after our second child was born and now only one of us is stressed! . Seriously though, it's probably the best decision we made for our family. Any chance your DW would be willing to take a few years off? It seems crazy to me for someone to go back to work full time with a 4 month old baby at home (especially if you already have a sizable nest egg) but then again I'm Canadian and maternity leave up here is 1 year so you never see new moms going back to work that soon. Just my 2 cents...

 

[Midpack]

I also think the idea that one should try to run out of money just before death is odd. If a person hasn't thought of meaningful activities that go beyond spending money by the time he is old, he is in trouble.

I have to agree with you. My lifestyle is set and my additional income I save each month will never be spent unless some unforeseen occurrence happens. I really don't ever see myself spending any more money than I currently do, inflation aside.

Seems like overly literal interpretations. No matter what your current activities and expenditures, even beyond "unforeseen occurrences" and 'lack of imagination,' I have to believe you or anyone else at any spending level could very easily spend measurably more if you believed it wouldn't compromise your final outcome - unless you're a monk.

Doesn't everyone have a budget that includes (largely fixed) essentials, and (largely variable) extras, even if not formally defined?

Examples of the latter that readily come to mind, and with any example I don't mean going totally crazy. Give more to charity while you're alive. You could eat at better restaurants or more often. Better clothes or more. Better golf clubs or play more often. A boat. Travel better more often. Go to theatre/concerts more often, maybe buy better seats. Buy better ingredients while grocery shopping. Drive better cars or trade more often. Maybe nicer furniture or consumer electronics, or more often. Replacing major home systems (roof, appliances, HVAC, etc.) a little proactively instead of only when faced with a total failure. An extra (or first) grande iced half caf triple mocha latte macchiato every week. I could go on and on...

I may be told otherwise, but I really don't believe that anyone has some amount of spending/year that they would never exceed...that would also be a 'lack of imagination' IMO.

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

I can totally understand this because both DH and I were stressed out trying to juggle careers, kids, etc. This is why we chose for me to become a SAHM after our second child was born and now only one of us is stressed! . Seriously though, it's probably the best decision we made for our family. Any chance your DW would be willing to take a few years off? It seems crazy to me for someone to go back to work full time with a 4 month old baby at home (especially if you already have a sizable nest egg) but then again I'm Canadian and maternity leave up here is 1 year so you never see new moms going back to work that soon. Just my 2 cents...

Very unlikely that she would want to do so, though she did appreciate the 2 months she spent working from home - much less stressful than fighting the worst traffic in the U.S. to get to work. In fact, that's a huge stress factor for both of us. My wife makes extremely good money, slightly better than me for the past couple of years (though I'll surpass her this year). This is why we have a substantial nest egg already. If everything continues as it is for the next five years, we'll end up doubling our nest egg.

 

[citrine]

Stress will always kill you....sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. All the amount of money saved will mean nothing if you are not going to be able to enjoy it!
Sorry to hear about your co-worker...makes you really think about what is important in this life.