The "Dark Side" Of ER

[Westernskies]

Face it...we're in the lumpen slums of cyberspace....

Let me Google that for you...

 

[IndependentlyPoor]

Let me Google that for you...

 

[FUEGO]

I have a couple of engineering degrees, yet only worked 18 years in the field before retiring. I was very successful (and lucky too - no doubt). I don't see my degrees as a "waste". And 18 years was all I needed to feel that I got everything I wanted out of that career, and I was ready to move on to other things.......

Yeah, I have a couple degrees, one of which is in engineering. I am a highly compensated, somewhat highly glorified spreadsheet jockey. A small, but not insubstantial, part of my job consists of photocopying and stapling things and preparing fedex labels and packages. Yes, perhaps one day I could rise to the ranks of "manager" of people that do what I currently do, and then I could call myself a glorified manager of spreadsheet jockeys. Maybe once I rise to that rank, I will find that it is my avocation?

My training and education are important mainly because they enable me to earn a comfortable living in a comfortable job and enable me to FIRE perhaps after only working 11-12 years in my field. The years of schooling that led to my engineering degree were not "wasted" since I still earned much more with the degree versus without it.

 

[audreyh1]

Let me Google that for you...

Bravo!

Audrey

 

[FIREd]

Judging from pms ER isn't all wine and roses for everyone.

But "doing what you love" is not necessarily all fun and games either...

I submit that my wife loves what she does. But she doesn't love her job. Rounds of layoffs, corporate reorganizations, neurotic bosses and backstabbing jackasses can take their toll on even the most passionate people.

 

[bbbamI]

Let me Google that for you...

My hero to the rescue................

 

[JonnyM]

The other day as I was ever so slowly waking up to a new day, I realized I wasn't sure what day of the week it was (didn't care, not particularly relavent), nor what time it was (certainly early afternoon, but any closer than that again irrelavent), and if I canceled all our appointments for the day (lol, OK none 97% of the time allowing for One DW App to see her PM Folk each month) today could just keep on being a very good and joyful day. I slid my footsie over and touched DW's footsie. She turned and looked at me, we stared into each other's eyes, then we both got S__t E__ting grins on our faces and both of us had the same thought... She stated it out loud, "Life is Good"

FIRE is about Freedom.

We happily and very overtly planned in advance and successfully traded a relatively extravagant (For Us) income stream with little real time to enjoy it, for a lifetime "reasonable" forever salary paid to us to do nothing, or anything (that isn't excessively expensive). We have enough cushion to support our hobbies (don't ask me how many guitars I have, you seriously would not believe it) and unlimited time to pursue them to any extent that we wish, and to come full circle, often we simply get to the end of the day having done nothing more significant than each of us reading the book of our choice.
That was a good day.

Doesn't mean we haven't experience tragedy since ER. We expected to be able to spend a lot more time with our only Son. Not to be as he was taken from us just about a year ago at age 25 and we will never ever get over it. However if that was going to happen, whether I was gainfully employed or not would not of effected the outcome now would it?

My point is we never feel like we're lumpen (I had to look it up too), we contribute both to society and to the economy and we freed up a couple of choice job opps for a couple of up and comers. The fellow that took mine was well qualified and was doing a fine job last I checked, oh two years ago. (Funny how you think you'll stay in touch but you just lose track) Now I can go days or weeks withoug thinking of the old workplace.

We totally enjoy day after day of doing nothing in particular. We have become experts in our field!

 

[NW-Bound]

Judging from pms ER isn't all wine and roses for everyone.

I have a feeling the market rout of 2007-2008 has caused some to panic and sell out at a low point. They would be afraid to admit having done so, for fear of being ridiculed. I wouldn't blame anybody though. I was scared, and if I weren't having a part-time job, I would be even more scared. And I did raise my cash steadily in 07 and early 08. Else, I might not be here posting.

Even those of us who have left competition behind can be a bit competitive about ER.

Yes, there are many type As here.

Also, some just don't want to talk about their post retirement divorce or whatever unpleasantness happened their way.

Retirement does not stave off marital unhappiness or illnesses. But imagine how miserable one would be, being sick and needing to work to maintain health insurance. Or like one of my cousins, an oral surgeon who had to keep some minimal hours at her private practice to stay afloat while undergoing cancer treatments.

 

[Milton]

But "doing what you love" is not necessarily all fun and games either...

And doing what you don't love - just to earn a livelihood - isn't either.

According to Fisker, it’s a “waste” for someone to spend 16 years acquiring an education and then retire after only 10 (I suspect that few people actually achieve FIRE after only 10 years of work, but that’s another issue). By that logic, it would be wasteful for a person to charge careers after spending time earning professional qualifications, regardless of how much they may hate their current job or be attracted towards another (so much for revitalization or personal growth!). As some career gurus claim that the average worker can now expect to work in at least two or three different occupations over their working lifespan, that may be a tough sell.

 

[Amethyst]

Honestly, I fail to see the correlation. Where is the waste in increasing your level of knowledge and understanding? Is learning to read and write, "a waste"?? Besides, up to 10 of those 16 years usually aren't by choice. Last time I checked, in the U.S., you have to go to school until you're 16.

Amethyst

According to Fisker, it’s a “waste” for someone to spend 16 years acquiring an education and then retire after only 10 .

 

[rescueme]

The dark side of long time employment, IMHO....

"Garland Greene: What if I told you insane was working fifty hours a week in some office for fifty years at the end of which they tell you to piss off; ending up in some retirement village hoping to die before suffering the indignity of trying to make it to the toilet on time? Wouldn't you consider that to be insane?"

- From the movie "Con Air"

 

[Moemg]

Judging from pms ER isn't all wine and roses for everyone.

.

You are so right . It's still life with all it's pitfalls minus a job.

 

[travelover]

You are so right . It's still life with all it's pitfalls minus a job.........

.........and an @$$h0le boss telling you to cancel your vacation the day before you are scheduled to leave or calling you at home on a Sunday to give you an "urgent" assignment.

 

[REWahoo]

.........and an @$$h0le boss telling you to cancel your vacation the day before you are scheduled to leave or calling you at home on a Sunday to give you an "urgent" assignment.

I'll see your @$$h0le boss and raise with one who called the day of your father's funeral to [-]offer sympathy[/-] talk business and 'suggest' the best way to deal with your loss was to immediately return to work. This is the same boss who called you a few hours after you had surgery (still groggy from the general anesthesia) to [-]wish you a speedy recovery[/-] complain about your office manager and insist you fire her...

 

[Nords]

This is the same boss who called you a few hours after you had surgery (still groggy from the general anesthesia) to [-]wish you a speedy recovery[/-] complain about your office manager and insist you fire her...

I'll bet if he had surgery no one would want to [-]waste[/-] use anesthesia on him...

 

[Khan]

I'll see your @$$h0le boss and raise with one who called the day of your father's funeral to [-]offer sympathy[/-] talk business and 'suggest' the best way to deal with your loss was to immediately return to work. This is the same boss who called you a few hours after you had surgery (still groggy from the general anesthesia) to [-]wish you a speedy recovery[/-] complain about your office manager and insist you fire her...

And I'll also raise the #$%^ boss who didn't know crap about computers but just knew that as a female I must be screwing up and didn't believe anything I told him & would call up the guy who did maintenance to check my work?
Maintenance guy would tell $%^& boss he was full of it.

 

[travelover]

And I'll also raise the #$%^ boss who didn't know crap about computers but just knew that as a female I must be screwing up and didn't believe anything I told him & would call up the guy who did maintenance to check my work?
Maintenance guy would tell $%^& boss he was full of it.

Uh oh.......... what have I started?

Sure don't miss those folks!

 

[ziggy29]

And I'll also raise the #$%^ boss who didn't know crap about computers but just knew that as a female I must be screwing up and didn't believe anything I told him & would call up the guy who did maintenance to check my work?

But you did make the coffee before calling, yes? [ducking]

 

[audreyh1]

Great points. The "perfect ultimately fulfilling job" is just not that common. We know too well. There are too many things that need to be done that aren't that pleasant - it takes lots of grunts to run our economies and bureaucracies. And it's not just the job either, obviously, it's the people you work for! Too many not-so-great bosses out there.

There is a reason why people are paid to work! Why does that fact seem to get lost so often when discussing some kind of "ideal" of work?

Audrey

 

[ziggy29]

There is a reason why people are paid to work!

Precisely. And it's also why a lot of occupations that many people find personally fulfilling have crappy pay (even if it requires a lot of skill and/or education). The less people want to do something, the more you have to pay them to do it.

 

[e86s54]

As mentioned by a few previous posters, we all need a certain amount of purpose and a sense of accomplishment to feel good about ourselves.

Personally, I need to do "stuff" and I like to be busy for at least part of the time or I get antsy and start feeling guilty about it. This is exactly how my job makes me feel. My position and the company is currently in a state of limbo. I have nothing worthwhile to do and generally surf the internet all day. So at the end of the day I feel bad for accomplishing nothing and I go home and do 'something' to feel alive again.

So for me...I need to ER to get busy! Funny how that is. Anyway, letter of resignation ready to be sent at the end of the month and done 30 days later.

E86

 

[audreyh1]

I think a big part of the conversation is:

Do you want your life to be self-directed? Or other-directed.

In a career - half your waking life is other-directed. In the more demanding professional careers where you are expected to put in way more than a 40 hour work week, it may be way more than half.

Even if you are the boss - your work is directed by paying clients. You may have a lot more control over your work life than do your employees, but your customers ultimately direct your work.

The beauty of financial independence is that you no longer are beholden to someone else's direction because you no longer need to earn your living. At this point you can pick and choose assignments and clients if you run your own business. If you are still an employee you may have a little more flexibility, but you would probably have to change careers if you wanted a lot more autonomy over your work life. There is still the high degree of "hassle factor" associated with most careers.

Most people don't work because they love it. Most people work because they have to. For most people, work is mostly about earning a living until they don't have to any more.

I get the feeling a lot of folks are uncomfortable about the idea of having a self-directed life (beyond choosing the career or job). I suppose that this is understandable considering that we are trained from birth to do someone else's bidding.

But one thing I really don't understand is how anyone can feel there is something morally wrong with "doing your own thing" rather than doing what you are assigned by someone else. That's the struggle the author of this article really seems to have. Well, it's basically just a twist on the old protestant work ethic.

Ultimately, he is saying that you can only "reach your full potential" if your activities are directed by someone else. And there are no requirements for how "evolved" or "superior" the boss or hiring organization need to be in order to create the environment that lets you achieve this ultimate fulfillment.

So funny. It's the absolute opposite of the Greek philosophers who strongly believed that work (for hire) corrupts achievement, and that it's only through activities done in leisure time that one can reach their full potential.

Audrey

 

[haha]

Well, it's basically just a twist on the old protestant work ethic.

This is likely true. However, there is a reason that Germany is bailing out Greece, and not the other way around.

Also, the US as it was in the past is a stunning achievment of people with the Protestant work ethic.

Ha

 

[e86s54]

This is likely true. However, there is a reason that Germany is bailing out Greece, and not the other way around.

Also, the US as it was in the past is a stunning achievment of people with the Protestant work ethic.

Ha

Not to take the conversation in a new direction, but the basic fact is that 80% of Greeks don't pay their taxes.

The protestant work ethic has achieved more...but IMHO not what made the US great. "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness" doesn't mean a 40+ hr work week to everyone.

E86

 

[e86s54]

I think a big part of the conversation is:

Do you want your life to be self-directed? Or other-directed.

In a career - half your waking life is other-directed. In the more demanding professional careers where you are expected to put in way more than a 40 hour work week, it may be way more than half.

Even if you are the boss - your work is directed by paying clients. You may have a lot more control over your work life than do your employees, but your customers ultimately direct your work.

The beauty of financial independence is that you no longer are beholden to someone else's direction because you no longer need to earn your living. At this point you can pick and choose assignments and clients if you run your own business. If you are still an employee you may have a little more flexibility, but you would probably have to change careers if you wanted a lot more autonomy over your work life. There is still the high degree of "hassle factor" associated with most careers.

Most people don't work because they love it. Most people work because they have to. For most people, work is mostly about earning a living until they don't have to any more.

I get the feeling a lot of folks are uncomfortable about the idea of having a self-directed life (beyond choosing the career or job). I suppose that this is understandable considering that we are trained from birth to do someone else's bidding.

But one thing I really don't understand is how anyone can feel there is something morally wrong with "doing your own thing" rather than doing what you are assigned by someone else. That's the struggle the author of this article really seems to have. Well, it's basically just a twist on the old protestant work ethic.

Ultimately, he is saying that you can only "reach your full potential" if your activities are directed by someone else. And there are no requirements for how "evolved" or "superior" the boss or hiring organization need to be in order to create the environment that lets you achieve this ultimate fulfillment.

So funny. It's the absolute opposite of the Greek philosophers who strongly believed that work (for hire) corrupts achievement, and that it's only through activities done in leisure time that one can reach their full potential.

Audrey

Very well put!