The It-Sucks-To-Be-Me Generation

[Jay_Gatsby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveR In my personal observations of the generation being discussed here; is that it is a combination of reasons.* The people I see here day in and day out are more likely to @itch about how unfair the company is because management does not give them everything they want and think they deserve.* Some work a few hours over time and think they deserve a huge bonus.* Others do the minimum everyday and expect to get a 10% raise every year and a promotion every other year.* They whine about and to management daily yet they have not walked in the shoes of management. Greed is a big part of it.* They want it NOW and don't feel they have to wait to get it.* The feel entitled to getting it NOW because of "all they have gone through".* *I don't begrudge anyone getting what they have earned but I do take exception to people who don't pay their dues first.*

I think you may have misunderstood the latter part of my observation. The "greed" to which I was referring was on the part of the employer, not the employee (although there can be some on the part of the employee as well). Employers pay just enough to keep their employees from leaving for greener pastures, and not a penny more. Perhaps this is what ultimately comes down to in the end. If a 20-something wants a bigger bonus/raise or more perks, he either works for it or leaves his employer for someone who will give such things to him. The fact that he hasn't voted with his feet is an indication that his situation isn't sufficiently disparate to warrant the effort of finding a new job, or as is more likely the case, no other employer would be willing to give him what he wants.

[SteveR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay_Gatsby I think you may have misunderstood the latter part of my observation.* The "greed" to which I was referring was on the part of the employer, not the employee (although there can be some on the part of the employee as well).* Employers pay just enough to keep their employees from leaving for greener pastures, and not a penny more.* Perhaps this is what ultimately comes down to in the end.* If a 20-something wants a bigger bonus/raise or more perks, he either works for it or leaves his employer for someone who will give such things to him.* The fact that he hasn't voted with his feet is an indication that his situation isn't sufficiently disparate to warrant the effort of finding a new job, or as is more likely the case, no other employer would be willing to give him what he wants.

I agree that greed works on both sides for any employer-employee relationship; age or generation has little to do with it. My comments were specific to the group I work with on a daily basis; several are my employees so I see and hear their gripes and concerns first hand. Don't get me wrong, many of them are very hard workers and put in tons of time on the job. My "gripe" is they want what I have after working for 32 years but they want it after only 3-5 years or less of experience.

Reality has not yet set in with these folks. :

I ran a very large corporation, I hired and fired a lot of people.

I hired a 60 year old Man to run my warehouse, the staff were astonished, why would I hire such an old person?

This gentleman had been a Prairie farmer,Ukrainian Immigrant, I pointed this out to them, he knew how to work.

This guy worked so hard, I let go one employee who thought he was automatically entitled to a day a month off, and I had to force my Supervisor to take Holidays.

I started to hire only 40 +, and in the interests of fairness, I fired my youngest Son from his summer job, would not listen or take direction.

My oldest Son worked as hard, or harder, than the others, he was the Boss' Son and knew all eyes were on him.

[Jay_Gatsby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveR I agree that greed works on both sides for any employer-employee relationship; age or generation has little to do with it.* My comments were specific to the group I work with on a daily basis; several are my employees so I see and hear their gripes and concerns first hand.* Don't get me wrong, many of them are very hard workers and put in tons of time on the job.* My "gripe" is they want what I have after working for 32 years but they want it after only 3-5 years or less of experience.* Reality has not yet set in with these folks.* :

Perhaps not, but seniority shouldn't always be the dispositive factor when it comes to salary, bonus, etc... I've found that many of my legal colleagues reached an acceptable level of competency within 7-10 years. Thereafter, what separates the winners from the losers is their ability to work smarter, not necessarily harder. Recognizing when one is being exploited and voting with one's feet is a critical skill in compensation and promotions.

[lets-retire]

Jay--You forgot one more. The timing just isn't right. I would have left my current position a year ago, but my house is in the middle of a remodel and I can't get anything near what it's worth.

As far as working hard, many people I have worked with will only work as hard as the boss. Knowing this I felt I should ALWAYS be the hardest working person on a job. As a supervisor my people seemed to typically be one of the hardest working groups on a job and typically had the best benefits. I gave them as much as I legally could get away with. However, my troops also expected to receive formal awards and recognition for their work. Since I work for the governement I did what I could and I could see many people take it personally when my boss would refuse to recognize thier work. Since there isn't a pay raise or bonus in any of my professions the only way to provide recognition is with medals, various awards, and time off.

Now that I've moved on (did that protest with your feet thing) and am a worker again. The only thing I expect is to have the backing of the boss and a sincere at-a-boy. I refuse to wear any medals I have earned that others have been given for doing the job for a year without getting into trouble.

[Jay_Gatsby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lets-retire Jay--You forgot one more.* The timing just isn't right.* I would have left my current position a year ago, but my house is in the middle of a remodel and I can't get anything near what it's worth.

I don't think timing has much to do with it, except when it comes to the availability of other employment opportunities.* Put differently, the timing wasn't right for me to move on from my old law firm during the 2002-2004 time period, simply because there weren't any comparable legal jobs available, clients were scaling back their legal budgets, etc...* Rather than go out on my own, I felt it was a better idea to keep my head down, my nose to the grindstone, and my ears to the ground until the economy improved.* The economy improved in 2005, and I jumped twice last year, each time with better compensation, benefits and working environment.

Many 20-somethings get into a financial bind (credit cards, car loans, and other irresponsible debt) whereby they're unable to explore other employment alternatives.* They NEED their paychecks, and therefore live in perpetual fear of their bosses and being unemployed.* Such fear stifles creativity and initiative, and paralyzes their ability to cope with exploitative employment situations.

Quote:

As far as working hard, many people I have worked with will only work as hard as the boss.

I don't agree with this.* Whenever I started a job by working as hard as my boss, he never rewarded me for the extra effort.* Rather, he became accustomed to my being available (and sacrificing my personal life), and would get very upset when I wasn't available when HE needed something.* An employee must always keep in mind that if the boss owns the company, all of the money goes to him first, and only if he decides to share any of it will the money trickle down (after Uncle Sam and the state government take their share).* Owner-bosses have little incentive to share with their employees, and many feel that they shouldn't have to share since their employees didn't take any of the risk to get the business off the ground.* Such selfishness doesn't engender loyalty on the part of employees, who absent some type of tangible incentive, will be out the door at 5:00 p.m.

Quote:

I refuse to wear any medals I have earned that others have been given for doing the job for a year without getting into trouble.

Such medals often mean something to the higher-ups, regardless of what you think of them.* You don't have to wear them proudly (since you know they don't mean squat -- i.e. you showed up to work every day), but you should emphasize them if you're looking to move up in a particular organization.* Likewise, if you decide to move on, they make decent enough accomplishments that can be spun in such a way as to distinguish you from other candidates.

[lets-retire]

The hard working thing might be the difference between the real world and government service (I don't know, just guessing). The government people know the boss can't reward by giving money, but can by giving time off with pay, or choice assignments.

[bow-tie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay_Gatsby Perhaps not, but seniority shouldn't always be the dispositive factor when it comes to salary, bonus, etc...* I've found that many of my legal colleagues reached an acceptable level of competency within 7-10 years.* Thereafter, what separates the winners from the losers is their ability to work smarter, not necessarily harder...*

I'm so thankful I'm not the only person who feels/thinks this way.

[HFWR]

Re: working hard; no good deed goes unpunished...

If they discover that you'll "work hard", they'll just give you more work...

[Jay_Gatsby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Have Funds, Will Retire Re: working hard; no good deed goes unpunished... If they discover that you'll "work hard", they'll just give you more work...*

Exactly. You have to learn to set boundaries, and you also must know what you're worth.

[cute fuzzy bunny]

And if you work really hard, they'll try to make you a manager. Of course, this is just on an evaluation basis at first, no additional salary and no title change.

First time (and all the other times for that matter) that someone made me 'that offer' I said "Why in the world would I want to do that? If you think I can be an effective manager, give me the title and the pay. If you dont, then wait until you do!".

[Jay_Gatsby]

Here's another article that provides further fodder for discussion:

http://biz.yahoo.com/usat/060123/13352434.html

Here's an excerpt:

Quote:

A college education, the initial marker of easing into "young adulthood," is an indicator of future success - both professionally and personally - but in ways you might not have considered. A college degree "will determine the size of their paycheck, the safety of their neighborhood, the reliability of their car and ... the opportunities they will be able to provide for their own children." However, it is that education, increasingly required for even low-paying jobs, that is hard to finance and can take more than a decade to pay off. While still in college, nearly half of working students already put in more than 25 hours a week to help make ends meet, Draut says. Yet, with diplomas in hand, most college graduates start out with years of debt in front of them and confront: Intermittent periods of unemployment. Limited chances for corporate upward mobility. Stunted wage growth.

Additionally, the article provides a link to an excerpt from the book "Strapped". However, the first "case study" seems to be an example of poor decision-making, rather than uncontrollable circumstances.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/books/...-excerpt_x.htm

First, although her parents didn't have the money to send her to 4-year college, taking business classes at a local community college made financial sense. Good decision (albeit unintended).

Second, taking the job at the printing company (despite the increase in pay) was a bad idea because the midnight shift created too much stress.Bad decision

Third, supporting an unemployed boyfriend was a bad idea. He should have been able to support himself. Bad decision

Fourth, dropping out of school, rather than changing jobs or ditching the unemployed boyfriend, destroyed her upward career mobility. Bad decision

Fifth, having a child before solving her financial and career problems (the unemployed boyfriend isn't mentioned again, so perhaps she ditched him after getting pregnant) only added another financial expense to her already strained bottom line. Bad decision

Assuming the It-Sucks-To-Be-Me Generation has a larger number of pitfalls than previous generations, many are avoidable through good decision-making and long-term thinking.

http://www.beijinglives.com/

Group of young 20 somethings, from the US, Canada, and Europe, rather than whining they went to China, have established this business, focus will be for those visiting for the Olympics.

I have registered.