Work situation re: hours worked

[COcheesehead]

Maybe your boss saw the name you use on this board. LOL.

[Matthew101]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry1 A good relationship with the boss will cure this. It will allow you to speak more freely about the balance you’ve established and how while it may not include late hours, there’s good value being provided to the company. Hopefully he’s not a moron and can see this. Also, it seems like a lot of companies are allowing more work from home opportunity. If you can get in on that, management pretty much has to trust you on how much time you work or at least shift over to a how much did you produce mindset. Basically though, just keep providing a good work product and good value and you’ll be fine. Good work/life balance will allow you to get the the fat FIRE goal you mentioned.

Better you just mind your business and not trying to get a long with your boss, might piss him/her off. Put yourself in the bosses position, you definitely won't like an employee with that getting along attitude. Not cool.

[Matthew101]

Quote:

Originally Posted by njhowie Ignore the comment unless they escalate and make something of it, then provide your rebuttal when required.

[emoji173]

[Jeffman52]

I ran into the exact same thing a few years ago. I sat down with my boss about it and he wanted to talk about perception vs reality. Well that went no where really and it bothered me because I knew I was giving way more than they thought. Eventually I had our Loss Prevention dept pull all records where I scanned into and out of the building. Then I went through all my email and documented the amount of "off time work" I was having to do when people would call with "business critical emergencies" I was giving over 55 hours a week. After I presented him with that data, he never mentioned it again.

But I will say, the very fact that it came up, stuck in my craw for months after that.

[Nick12]

My cousin's husband works in IT for a hedge fund in NYC. He is one of the few employees that works a 9-10 hour day and gets to spend time at home at night. The bankers work 12-15 hour days however the hedge fund caters breakfast lunch and dinner to the employees so they can keep working at their desks and don't leave the office. Plus the food he tells me is really good and free.

[pb4uski]

Accounting/finance historically tends to work long hours in my experience.... frequently to a point of being masochistic... in the early years some think of it as part of paying your dues.

I remember vividly when I was running an accounting/finance operation of about 20 people that one of my direct reports who was a good performer came in and asked me about taking a couple hours off in the afternoon the next day to attend her son's school play.... I responded along the lines of as long as she got her work done with quality when it was due that I didn't much care if she did it at 2 in the afternoon or 2 in the morning. Unlike some managers in our company I wasn't one for watching when people came and left... I had better and more important things to do.

OP gets his work done so I certainly wouldn't worry much about it but it would be prudent to be cognizant of the perception that leaving at 4:30 creates... either by coming in later and leaving later or by occasionally making remarks on how productive that you can be in the first hour of the workday when no one is around to interrupt your work.

Our office had flex hours and most people tended to arrive and leave as early as possible... I tended to arrive later and stayed later... I found that I got much more done after everyone had left for the day and I could focus on what I was doing and not get interrupted.

Don't sweat it... the boss didn't ask for any changes... if he wants changes I suspect he'll be more direct about it.

[Sunset]

The last job I had as an employee, I worked 9->5:30 and left, even though everyone else stayed later.
I was being paid for 8 hrs per day and I did it.
Since I had been a consultant at other places, I was pretty comfortable for being paid for each hour I worked.

After a few years, one of the guys took a job with Amazon, and he told me how he noticed how I left at 5:30 all the time.
He wished he had done that, as he said he put in 1-2 hours extra every day, The boss(owner) would give him the occasional bonus of maybe $100, and tell him he did great. However he said he finally realized he was working for probably $2 /hr for all those extra hours.

[target2019]

In defense contracting, working hours in excess of your 40 hours without pay is a no go. Managers do not really like this, as they are required to put in extra time on proposals and so on.

[Golden sunsets]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunset I was being paid for 8 hrs per day and I did it. .

We called that an hourly mentality. These were always the folks that were the first on the chopping block in a RIF.

[Big_Hitter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by njhowie Ignore the comment unless they escalate and make something of it, then provide your rebuttal when required.

+1

[Big_Hitter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb4uski Unlike some managers in our company I wasn't one for watching when people came and left... I had better and more important things to do.

awesome!

good managers lead, they don't supervise

[ckelly78z]

I have been given the freedom to come in early as long as I get everything done by the end of my 8.5 hours. I have been getting there at 5:00 am, and am able to leave at 1:30 pm, but usually stay until 2:00....it's amazing how many of the engineers don't arrive until 9, and leave at 7 pm, but don't seem to wake up until after their 1.5 lunch around 1:30-2 in the afternoon, and some have said something about me going home early. I responded that for 3 hours while they slept, I was doing things in my proto lab.

[rocketjockey]

This was a leading cause of my leaving a certain extremely well known rocket company fronted by an eccentric billionaire work-a-holic. I was 20 years senior to the majority of the other engineers, and as such had learned how and where to focus my attention. The kids meanwhile hung around all night and weekends. You hit on it, "optics". When it kept coming up in reviews, emails, etc, I pushed back and asked management why the others were so inefficient that they had to be there all the damn time? I pointblank asked if I was being graded on attendance or production (mind you, salary gig already over 40 a week anyways). It didn't go over well. I admit, I was belligerent about it. Company culture was "Work at All Costs". Either get on board or ship out. I shipped out.

[youbet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocketjockey . I shipped out.

And that's the correct way to handle it!

It's not your employer's fault if their culture conflicts with yours and you hate being at work. It's YOUR FAULT for making the decision to be there. And the answer is to stop choosing to be a part of a culture you don't like and move on to something you do like.

Thankfully, the demise of the defined benefit pension and other "handcuffs" makes this easy. You locate a position, find contracting work or start your own business that has a culture you're happy with and you do that for a living. Moving your 401k and other portable benefits is a piece of cake.

I'm always mystified when folks cry about their employer but then fight, fight, fight to stay on......... Perhaps they don't have marketable job skills?

[youbet]

In terms of the value of employees who are (or at least think they are) efficient and want odd or shorter hours vs. employees who are less efficient (or maybe just accomplish more) and work longer, later hours, each type can make important contributions.

On a team I managed for some years, we had all types. We were managing and providing tech support for a 24-7 high-tech manufacturing operation. There were a few who insisted on the "strict 40," some who liked to drift in mid-morning and stay until early evening and a few that seemed to always be there. It seemed like everyone had their slot to fit into and we made it work.

I tried my best to grade performance based on quality and quantity of output with less focus on hours. But, because we were supporting manufacturing operations, it was hard to not appreciate folks being there to help when "crap happened" out on the shop floor. I admit giving generous credit to an engineer who got caught on her way out the door at 7PM by a "line down" scenario and gladly stayed to get a key piece of robotics back in action.

Some of the so-called "efficient" folks weren't as efficient as they thought they were in actual accomplishments (although all boasted they were). Some of the long and late hour folks were truly inefficient and their accomplishments might sometimes be surprisingly low considering how much they were in the shop.

We tried our best to find a niche for everyone. But, sometimes the fit just wasn't there and it was best for all parties involved if they just moved on.

[Chuckanut]

In my early days at a Mega Oil Company, we were working on a data processing project that was behind schedule from Day 1. A relative had passed away and the funeral was about 2:00 PM on a Thursday. I asked for time off and it was grudgingly OK'd. Shortly before I left (having already worked over 40 hours that week) my boss came into my cubicle and told me to be certain I used 1/2 day of my vacation time to cover my absence. That was one of the few times I got just plain angry and blew my top. I demanded to know why I had to use vacation time to cover a 1/2 day when I had already put in more than 40 hours that week. He shut up.

[jt999]

I've dealt with similar. Being there and actually working are 2 different things and you need to ensure to get this point across. There's nothing more annoying than eating lunch at your desk while others decide to take an hour to go out for lunch or being heads down working or on calls with customers while others feel the need to pick up their phone every ten minutes to check for personal messages or wasting lots of time chit-chatting with colleagues. The key point - don't make their inefficient attitude towards work change the way you work. You're doing it right in my book. But for some places, they just want to see you in your desk for whatever reason when they make the rounds and they don't care or know how to measure the efficiency of each worker. I used to make it a point to proactively connect with my manager at least once a week or daily to provide important project updates before leaving so they knew how things were progressing. If I was leaving early because I had to be on an early call at 7 am, I'd let my manager know. Set the boundaries with your manager. Good luck. If that doesn't improve the situation, look elsewhere. That way of working is not the norm everywhere. The workplace is changing but still varies by industry and company.


Also, some companies have "core" hours that require you to be there during those hours. This could be 9 am to 3 pm, for instance...so some people could work from 7 am - 4 pm and others could work 9 am - 6 pm and all would be there during the "core" hours but also provide some flexibility to come in earlier to improve their commute, etc. It would be helpful if the manager raised awareness regarding the policy so all associates were aware and also reduce friction amongst the staff.

[jt999]

CKelly - Right on. When leaving at 3 pm (getting in at 6 am) to bewildered looks, I've used the comment "I did more before lunchtime than you'll do the entire day" to great effect on more than one occasion. They hate that.

[GalaxyBoy]

I had an employer who took me aside after the first week and told me we "had a problem." I was only working 40 hours per week and he told me they expected at least 45, "even if all you are doing is reading trade magazines." I took this job after being laid off in the early '90s and it was a 30% reduction in pay from my previous employer. This taught me to find out what the expectations were before I negotiated salary. I left that place as soon as something else came up.

At another position, I had been working 9-6 and watched most of the office leave at 4:00. When I changed my hours to 7-4 I was usually one of the first ones there. Hmmmm....

Legally, if you are salaried they don't have to pay overtime, but they can't dock your pay for working less than 40 hours a week. Doesn't always work out that way. The boss wants his cake and to eat it too.

[MRG]

Never had a discussion about hours. Megacorp would let you work any amount of time. Sometimes you got to go home too. During our prep for Y2K they actually paid us piecework for coming in, writing code, on the weekends.

They taught me sleep was optional as was going home. There were many times 100 hour weeks were the norm. I was always rewarded for my participation.