I Like the Absence of Likes

[ER Eddie]

Just a quick note to say that I like the absence of likes and other reactions on this forum. Most forums and social media discussion groups incorporate some form of emotive reactions to each post, which I'm sure everyone is familiar with.

Social media companies have discovered that these "likes" and reactions are a great way to drive traffic and thus income, because they stimulate little dopamine hits. They tap our vulnerability to social cues regarding favor or disfavor, even in a virtual world. As a result, these "like" systems are almost ubiquitous.

The problem is that the constant attention to "likes" or others' reactions shape our behavior, unconsciously. We become sensitized to whether we get "likes" or other reactions. We can see how other people are voting with their likes, and so we get a sense of which views are popular, which are not, and how ours stacks up. As a result, our behavior changes -- e.g., what we say and how we say it changes, what opinions we express are subtly influenced, and other factors change as well (e.g., polarization, antagonism, time spent in back-and-forth).

I much prefer this old forum style, where you just say what you think and that's the end of it. No "likes" or any of that stuff. You have no idea what others' reactions are to what you've said, so it doesn't really matter. Maybe one or two people responds to an occasional post, but that's about it.

You do have "thanks," but that's something that is private. I think public "likes" function very differently, because everyone sees them, and so they touch on the social ranking sensitivities we know people pay attention to, whereas a private message does not.

So, please don't update your software anytime soon. I like no likes.

[MichaelB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ER Eddie I much prefer this old version of a forum, where you just say what you think, and that's the end of it.

You read any of the EV or Tesla threads? Or the "when to take Social Security?"

Just kidding, of course.

[Chuckanut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ER Eddie Just a quick note to say that I like the absence of likes and other reactions on this forum. Most forums and social media discussion groups incorporate some form of emotive reactions to each post, which I'm sure everyone is familiar with. Social media companies have discovered that these "likes" and reactions are a great way to drive traffic and thus income, because they stimulate little dopamine hits. They tap our vulnerability to social cues regarding favor or disfavor, even in a virtual world. As a result, these "like" systems are almost ubiquitous. The problem is that the constant attention to "likes" or others' reactions shape our behavior, unconsciously. What we say and how we say it changes. And in seeing how other people are "voting," we get a sense of which views are popular, which are not, and how ours stacks up. I much prefer this old version of a forum, where you just say what you think, and that's the end of it. You don't really know what others' reactions are, apart from the occasional person who responds. So don't update your software anytime soon. I like no likes.

I think you have a good point. I look at a clicking on a 'like' button as simply a way of saying to a friend "I read your post". Nothing more.

FWIW, here are two rules I have picked up from others:

1. You don't have to respond to everybody who disagrees, contradicts or attacks you.
2. Never confuse social media with reality.

[candrew]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ER Eddie I like no likes.

So, nothing is what you want. That's very Zen like. Or is that a no like?

[JoeWras]

My first try at a reddit post put me in negative karma. Some guy misunderstood me and just got mad.

Then I posted on a light and breezy subreddit and got 500 karma points, accidentally. It was kind of like gambling. I felt a slight high.

But the sugar high wears off. It is all a bunch of BS really, so I agree with OP's thesis about this forum. Keep that stuff away.

reddit instituted the up/down arrow (and associated karma) to induce people to upvote interesting items, even interesting stuff you disagree with. Good idea, but very few people use it that way.

So, yeah, discussions get boxed into certain pathways because of the up/down thing. It is a shame.

Here, interesting items float up based on responses. That's perfectly fine and works well.

[ERD50]

Agreed, it becomes group think, or one crowd against the other, and takes over the substance. And often more than one point is made in a post, which, or both are being "liked"?

The "like" button actually works pretty well on one of the technical forums I visit and occasionally post. They make a point of saying the "like" is only for acknowledging that someone put in some extra effort to provide good source materials, or went to great lengths to explain to someone, or had some exceptional insight. But otherwise, I could do w/o.

-ERD50

[RobbieB]

I never use the like button. I would if there were also a dislike button.

[CaliKid]

Thumbs down.

[Dtail]

Just going through a Pickleball thread on who is playing tomorrow.
One member states "Likes...." on the positive responses, but also on the NEGATIVE responses.

[CardsFan]

Don't do much social media (though I do read DW's Facebook once in a while)

I find the interaction here to be interesting and informative.

No like button needed, or desired.

[Sunset]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ER Eddie Just a quick note to say that I like the absence of likes and other reactions on this forum. Most forums and social media discussion groups incorporate some form of emotive reactions to each post, which I'm sure everyone is familiar with. Social media companies have discovered that these "likes" and reactions are a great way to drive traffic and thus income, because they stimulate little dopamine hits. They tap our vulnerability to social cues regarding favor or disfavor, even in a virtual world. As a result, these "like" systems are almost ubiquitous. The problem is that the constant attention to "likes" or others' reactions shape our behavior, unconsciously. We become sensitized to whether we get "likes" or other reactions. We can see how other people are voting with their likes, and so we get a sense of which views are popular, which are not, and how ours stacks up. As a result, our behavior changes -- e.g., what we say and how we say it changes, what opinions we express are subtly influenced, and other factors change as well (e.g., polarization, antagonism, time spent in back-and-forth). I much prefer the old forum style, like we have here -- you just say what you think and that's the end of it. No "likes" or any of that stuff. You have no idea what others' reactions are to what you've said, so it doesn't really matter. Maybe one or two people responds to an occasional post, but that's about it. You do have "thanks," but that's something that is private. I think public "likes" function very differently, because everyone sees them, and so they touch on the social ranking sensitivities we know people pay attention to, whereas a private message does not. So, please don't update your software anytime soon. I like no likes.

+1

[TheHobbit]

I hate to break this to you, but what do you think happens when somebody gets a lot of replies to a thread? Ya, that’s right.... dopamine hit. Likes are just a light touch way of saying “I like what your wrote.” , a “thumbs up”. Each to their own, but there is nothing insidious going on there.

[JoeWras]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHobbit I hate to break this to you, but what do you think happens when somebody gets a lot of replies to a thread? Ya, that’s right.... dopamine hit. Likes are just a light touch way of saying “I like what your wrote.” , a “thumbs up”. Each to their own, but there is nothing insidious going on there.

True, but the dope is a bit different. Facebook and reddit depend on upvotes or likes to get visibility. (I know nothing about IG, but I think it is similar.) If you don't get them, the algo shoves them down. Worse yet, many users never see them at all unless the select users the algo pushed it to give it a bit of love.

Here, your lonely new thread will at least get visibility for a while regardless.

[mistermike40]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ER Eddie Just a quick note to say that I like the absence of likes and other reactions on this forum...

I was going to like your post, but I couldn't

[ER Eddie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHobbit I hate to break this to you, but what do you think happens when somebody gets a lot of replies to a thread? Ya, that’s right.... dopamine hit. Likes are just a light touch way of saying “I like what your wrote.” , a “thumbs up”. Each to their own, but there is nothing insidious going on there.

I disagree. It's not the same thing. First because your example only applies when someone creates a thread, which happens rarely compared to just posting, so the opportunity for behavior mod is relatively rare with thread creation, as compared to reactions to individual posts. Second because your example is a natural consequence, whereas what I'm talking about is something intentionally engineered into the system to unconsciously manipulate your behavior. (I'm not claiming that any dopamine involvement is a bad thing, btw. None of us would be doing much of anything if dopamine wasn't involved at some level. The issue is that these systems are carefully designed to exploit that response and use it to mold our behavior. A rough analogy is how sugar is used in food.)

Facebook, Twitter, and the other social media giants all use these systems, and that's no accident. It's because they have good data showing that these systems are very effective in capturing and molding people's behavior -- which is not surprising, since they have been designed by a lot of very smart, highly paid people whose job it is to make sure they do exactly that. I'd recommend Jaron Lanier's book, Ten Arguments for Deleting Your Social Media Accounts, to learn more.

[USGrant1962]

FWIW, this forum has the Thanks button which goes to the poster but is not public. Like.

[MRG]

Quote:

Originally Posted by USGrant1962 FWIW, this forum has the Thanks button which goes to the poster but is not public. Like.

Yes but.... the recipient needs to be on an interface that supports it. Android app doesn't, does the apple app? I haven't been on a PC this decade.

ETA: I also like no likes for many of the upstream reasons.

[USGrant1962]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRG Yes but.... the recipient needs to be on an interface that supports it. Android app doesn't, does the apple app? I haven't been on a PC this decade. ETA: I also like no likes for many of the upstream reasons.

Hmm, looks like the apple app does not. But I only read there. I don't prefer participating in a forum on a phone! Peck, peck, peck, peck, ...

I just looked and it seems the app(s) miss a lot of functionality. Like Smilies

[GalaxyBoy]

At Megacorp, boss wrote an entry for the blog on the company intranet about our group's services. At the weekly waste of time staff meeting we were instructed to log on and hit the "like" button. I asked, "Why? What does that do?" I never did get an answer. Oh, and I didn't hit "like."

[ER Eddie]

Re. the "Thanks" function, it gets used much less often than a "like" button would, which is fine.

I've been here 7 years and gotten 72 thanks, which works out to about 10 thanks a year. (Maybe I need to up my game and get more thanks, heh.) On a typical modern forum, you can get 10 likes in a day, rather than 10 in a year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GalaxyBoy At Megacorp, boss wrote an entry for the blog on the company intranet about our group's services. At the weekly waste of time staff meeting we were instructed to log on and hit the "like" button. I asked, "Why? What does that do?" I never did get an answer. Oh, and I didn't hit "like."

Ha, that's so lame -- telling your employees to "like" your blog post.