Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
I Like the Absence of Likes
Old 03-08-2020, 03:51 PM   #1
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ER Eddie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,480
I Like the Absence of Likes

Just a quick note to say that I like the absence of likes and other reactions on this forum. Most forums and social media discussion groups incorporate some form of emotive reactions to each post, which I'm sure everyone is familiar with.

Social media companies have discovered that these "likes" and reactions are a great way to drive traffic and thus income, because they stimulate little dopamine hits. They tap our vulnerability to social cues regarding favor or disfavor, even in a virtual world. As a result, these "like" systems are almost ubiquitous.

The problem is that the constant attention to "likes" or others' reactions shape our behavior, unconsciously. We become sensitized to whether we get "likes" or other reactions. We can see how other people are voting with their likes, and so we get a sense of which views are popular, which are not, and how ours stacks up. As a result, our behavior changes -- e.g., what we say and how we say it changes, what opinions we express are subtly influenced, and other factors change as well (e.g., polarization, antagonism, time spent in back-and-forth).

I much prefer this old forum style, where you just say what you think and that's the end of it. No "likes" or any of that stuff. You have no idea what others' reactions are to what you've said, so it doesn't really matter. Maybe one or two people responds to an occasional post, but that's about it.

You do have "thanks," but that's something that is private. I think public "likes" function very differently, because everyone sees them, and so they touch on the social ranking sensitivities we know people pay attention to, whereas a private message does not.

So, please don't update your software anytime soon. I like no likes.
__________________

ER Eddie is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 03-08-2020, 03:55 PM   #2
Administrator
MichaelB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sheltered in place
Posts: 31,827
Quote:
Originally Posted by ER Eddie View Post
I much prefer this old version of a forum, where you just say what you think, and that's the end of it.
You read any of the EV or Tesla threads? Or the "when to take Social Security?"

Just kidding, of course.
__________________

MichaelB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2020, 03:56 PM   #3
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Chuckanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: West of the Mississippi
Posts: 10,516
Quote:
Originally Posted by ER Eddie View Post
Just a quick note to say that I like the absence of likes and other reactions on this forum. Most forums and social media discussion groups incorporate some form of emotive reactions to each post, which I'm sure everyone is familiar with.

Social media companies have discovered that these "likes" and reactions are a great way to drive traffic and thus income, because they stimulate little dopamine hits. They tap our vulnerability to social cues regarding favor or disfavor, even in a virtual world. As a result, these "like" systems are almost ubiquitous.

The problem is that the constant attention to "likes" or others' reactions shape our behavior, unconsciously. What we say and how we say it changes. And in seeing how other people are "voting," we get a sense of which views are popular, which are not, and how ours stacks up.

I much prefer this old version of a forum, where you just say what you think, and that's the end of it. You don't really know what others' reactions are, apart from the occasional person who responds.

So don't update your software anytime soon. I like no likes.
I think you have a good point. I look at a clicking on a 'like' button as simply a way of saying to a friend "I read your post". Nothing more.

FWIW, here are two rules I have picked up from others:

1. You don't have to respond to everybody who disagrees, contradicts or attacks you.
2. Never confuse social media with reality.
__________________
The worst decisions are usually made in times of anger and impatience.
Chuckanut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2020, 04:04 PM   #4
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,393
Quote:
Originally Posted by ER Eddie View Post
I like no likes.
So, nothing is what you want. That's very Zen like. Or is that a no like?
__________________
“Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, you’ll be a mile from them, and you’ll have their shoes.” – Jack Handey
candrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2020, 04:20 PM   #5
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
JoeWras's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 5,567
My first try at a reddit post put me in negative karma. Some guy misunderstood me and just got mad.

Then I posted on a light and breezy subreddit and got 500 karma points, accidentally. It was kind of like gambling. I felt a slight high.

But the sugar high wears off. It is all a bunch of BS really, so I agree with OP's thesis about this forum. Keep that stuff away.

reddit instituted the up/down arrow (and associated karma) to induce people to upvote interesting items, even interesting stuff you disagree with. Good idea, but very few people use it that way.

So, yeah, discussions get boxed into certain pathways because of the up/down thing. It is a shame.

Here, interesting items float up based on responses. That's perfectly fine and works well.
__________________
Retired Class of 2018
Time To Take A Break For A While
JoeWras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2020, 04:40 PM   #6
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 22,431
Agreed, it becomes group think, or one crowd against the other, and takes over the substance. And often more than one point is made in a post, which, or both are being "liked"?

The "like" button actually works pretty well on one of the technical forums I visit and occasionally post. They make a point of saying the "like" is only for acknowledging that someone put in some extra effort to provide good source materials, or went to great lengths to explain to someone, or had some exceptional insight. But otherwise, I could do w/o.

-ERD50
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2020, 05:01 PM   #7
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
RobbieB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Central CA
Posts: 5,213
I never use the like button. I would if there were also a dislike button.
__________________
Retired at 59 in 2014. Should have done it sooner but I worried too much.
RobbieB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2020, 05:06 PM   #8
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
CaliKid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Cali
Posts: 1,053
Thumbs down.

__________________
______________________
Hoping to get out around September 1, 2022... I hope, I hope, I hope. Until then off to work I go....
CaliKid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2020, 05:23 PM   #9
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Tampa
Posts: 5,957
Just going through a Pickleball thread on who is playing tomorrow.
One member states "Likes...." on the positive responses, but also on the NEGATIVE responses.
__________________
TGIM
Dtail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2020, 05:23 PM   #10
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: St. Charles
Posts: 1,990
Don't do much social media (though I do read DW's Facebook once in a while)

I find the interaction here to be interesting and informative.

No like button needed, or desired.
__________________
If your not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Never slow down, never grow old!
CardsFan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2020, 05:25 PM   #11
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Sunset's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Spending the Kids Inheritance and living in Chicago
Posts: 9,113
Quote:
Originally Posted by ER Eddie View Post
Just a quick note to say that I like the absence of likes and other reactions on this forum. Most forums and social media discussion groups incorporate some form of emotive reactions to each post, which I'm sure everyone is familiar with.

Social media companies have discovered that these "likes" and reactions are a great way to drive traffic and thus income, because they stimulate little dopamine hits. They tap our vulnerability to social cues regarding favor or disfavor, even in a virtual world. As a result, these "like" systems are almost ubiquitous.

The problem is that the constant attention to "likes" or others' reactions shape our behavior, unconsciously. We become sensitized to whether we get "likes" or other reactions. We can see how other people are voting with their likes, and so we get a sense of which views are popular, which are not, and how ours stacks up. As a result, our behavior changes -- e.g., what we say and how we say it changes, what opinions we express are subtly influenced, and other factors change as well (e.g., polarization, antagonism, time spent in back-and-forth).

I much prefer the old forum style, like we have here -- you just say what you think and that's the end of it. No "likes" or any of that stuff. You have no idea what others' reactions are to what you've said, so it doesn't really matter. Maybe one or two people responds to an occasional post, but that's about it.

You do have "thanks," but that's something that is private. I think public "likes" function very differently, because everyone sees them, and so they touch on the social ranking sensitivities we know people pay attention to, whereas a private message does not.

So, please don't update your software anytime soon. I like no likes.
+1






__________________
Fortune favors the prepared mind. ... Louis Pasteur
Sunset is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2020, 05:33 PM   #12
Dryer sheet wannabe
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: The Shire
Posts: 24
I hate to break this to you, but what do you think happens when somebody gets a lot of replies to a thread? Ya, that’s right.... dopamine hit. Likes are just a light touch way of saying “I like what your wrote.” , a “thumbs up”. Each to their own, but there is nothing insidious going on there.
TheHobbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2020, 05:47 PM   #13
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
JoeWras's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 5,567
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHobbit View Post
I hate to break this to you, but what do you think happens when somebody gets a lot of replies to a thread? Ya, that’s right.... dopamine hit. Likes are just a light touch way of saying “I like what your wrote.” , a “thumbs up”. Each to their own, but there is nothing insidious going on there.
True, but the dope is a bit different. Facebook and reddit depend on upvotes or likes to get visibility. (I know nothing about IG, but I think it is similar.) If you don't get them, the algo shoves them down. Worse yet, many users never see them at all unless the select users the algo pushed it to give it a bit of love.

Here, your lonely new thread will at least get visibility for a while regardless.
__________________
Retired Class of 2018
Time To Take A Break For A While
JoeWras is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2020, 06:33 PM   #14
Recycles dryer sheets
mistermike40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by ER Eddie View Post
Just a quick note to say that I like the absence of likes and other reactions on this forum...
I was going to like your post, but I couldn't
__________________
“It's a terrible thing, I think, in life to wait until you're ready. I have this feeling now that actually no one is ever ready to do anything. There is almost no such thing as ready. There is only now. And you may as well do it now. Generally speaking, now is as good a time as any.” - Hugh Laurie
mistermike40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2020, 07:29 PM   #15
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ER Eddie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,480
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHobbit View Post
I hate to break this to you, but what do you think happens when somebody gets a lot of replies to a thread? Ya, that’s right.... dopamine hit. Likes are just a light touch way of saying “I like what your wrote.” , a “thumbs up”. Each to their own, but there is nothing insidious going on there.
I disagree. It's not the same thing. First because your example only applies when someone creates a thread, which happens rarely compared to just posting, so the opportunity for behavior mod is relatively rare with thread creation, as compared to reactions to individual posts. Second because your example is a natural consequence, whereas what I'm talking about is something intentionally engineered into the system to unconsciously manipulate your behavior. (I'm not claiming that any dopamine involvement is a bad thing, btw. None of us would be doing much of anything if dopamine wasn't involved at some level. The issue is that these systems are carefully designed to exploit that response and use it to mold our behavior. A rough analogy is how sugar is used in food.)

Facebook, Twitter, and the other social media giants all use these systems, and that's no accident. It's because they have good data showing that these systems are very effective in capturing and molding people's behavior -- which is not surprising, since they have been designed by a lot of very smart, highly paid people whose job it is to make sure they do exactly that. I'd recommend Jaron Lanier's book, Ten Arguments for Deleting Your Social Media Accounts, to learn more.
ER Eddie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2020, 07:33 PM   #16
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
USGrant1962's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: DC area
Posts: 1,381
FWIW, this forum has the Thanks button which goes to the poster but is not public. Like.
__________________
FI and Semi-ER March 24, 2017
Consulting to stay engaged

"All models are wrong, some are useful." - George Box
USGrant1962 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2020, 07:38 PM   #17
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
MRG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,945
Quote:
Originally Posted by USGrant1962 View Post
FWIW, this forum has the Thanks button which goes to the poster but is not public. Like.
Yes but.... the recipient needs to be on an interface that supports it. Android app doesn't, does the apple app? I haven't been on a PC this decade.

ETA: I also like no likes for many of the upstream reasons.
MRG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2020, 07:48 PM   #18
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
USGrant1962's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: DC area
Posts: 1,381
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRG View Post
Yes but.... the recipient needs to be on an interface that supports it. Android app doesn't, does the apple app? I haven't been on a PC this decade.

ETA: I also like no likes for many of the upstream reasons.
Hmm, looks like the apple app does not. But I only read there. I don't prefer participating in a forum on a phone! Peck, peck, peck, peck, ...

I just looked and it seems the app(s) miss a lot of functionality. Like Smilies
__________________
FI and Semi-ER March 24, 2017
Consulting to stay engaged

"All models are wrong, some are useful." - George Box
USGrant1962 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2020, 07:49 PM   #19
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
GalaxyBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: The Beautiful Blue Ridge Mountains
Posts: 1,832
At Megacorp, boss wrote an entry for the blog on the company intranet about our group's services. At the weekly waste of time staff meeting we were instructed to log on and hit the "like" button. I asked, "Why? What does that do?" I never did get an answer. Oh, and I didn't hit "like."
GalaxyBoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2020, 08:03 PM   #20
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
ER Eddie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,480
Re. the "Thanks" function, it gets used much less often than a "like" button would, which is fine.

I've been here 7 years and gotten 72 thanks, which works out to about 10 thanks a year. (Maybe I need to up my game and get more thanks, heh.) On a typical modern forum, you can get 10 likes in a day, rather than 10 in a year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyBoy View Post
At Megacorp, boss wrote an entry for the blog on the company intranet about our group's services. At the weekly waste of time staff meeting we were instructed to log on and hit the "like" button. I asked, "Why? What does that do?" I never did get an answer. Oh, and I didn't hit "like."
Ha, that's so lame -- telling your employees to "like" your blog post.
__________________

ER Eddie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Member who likes to play with future numbers tykonderoga FIRE and Money 12 12-01-2016 01:15 PM
Jim Grant likes cash now Ed_The_Gypsy Stock Picking and Market Strategy 26 07-01-2011 08:17 PM
Buffett Likes Ratio of a Country's Equity Total Market Value to It's GNP haha FIRE and Money 4 06-21-2011 12:40 PM
Early 30s. Evil. Likes kittens. Groovy Hi, I am... 24 05-22-2011 08:32 PM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:51 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×