Is this a discussion forum, or a soapbox/blog?

[bright eyed]

Oh, I suppose it can be both. I just think the poster has the responsibility to make that clear, especially when they start a thread on a controversial subject.

-ERD50

He he he, you mean like T-al's flame throwing thread about funky milk?

 

[ERD50]

I feel that a position can be judged by a number of methods other than the eagerness of its promulgator to argue it.

For the most part I don't like to argue; it suits me fine if others have different ideas. Most of what we discuss really has no single answer. In the rare cases where it does, IMO inquiry works better than argument.

Ha

I suppose some people might, ummm... 'argue' with this, but it is not an 'argument' that I'm after. When someone expresses an opinion that seems to fly in the face of what I know, I do like to challenge it. And I like to be challenged on my understanding of the subject. That's how we learn.

We may or may not come away with a different opinion. But we may learn something new, or maybe just develop a better understanding of why that person holds that opinion. It might be something I never thought about before.

Maybe that is the 'inquiry' you speak of?


-ERD50

 

[haha]

When someone expresses an opinion that seems to fly in the face of what I know, I do like to challenge it.

It all depends on your intention. Are you worried that the person might seriously damage himself or his dependents? Or do you just want to prove that you are smarter? The first is helpful; the second just annoying.

Although I fail at this, I try to stay out of p*ssing contests unless money is involved. As in, if I win, I get paid.

I can tell if someone knows something that I am interested in knowing by a careful reading of what he/she writes. Most of what we talk about is just passing time. Absolutely noble goal, but not worth arguing over.

Ha

 

[ERD50]

Gosh, it sounds so simple, doesn't it? Step outta line, the moderators gonna come take you away. Clear, easy rules for everyone to understand and follow.
...

People who can't get along eventually cross the line flagrantly enough (or often enough) to get banned, or they run off the rails and fluff off in a hissy fit. But although the moderators can tell from the first dozen posts what the end result will be, any interference before then would be met with cries of First Amendment alarm.

I understand there are grey areas to this, not trying to make a moderator 'hell' out of it. Actually, I'm trying to ease the mods jobs.

So, I guess I'm just looking for a little direction here - is it the view that starting controversial threads, with no intent to actually discuss the merits of the topic is OK? For me, it violates the 'Be Courteous' guideline - if you post a thread that condemn/praises some controversial topic, the courteous thing to do would be to accept and respond to dissenting views. This is a discussion forum, right?

So, if that behavior is considered inappropriate, the members can politely point that out to posters early on, and maybe it will take care of itself w/o moderator involvement. But, if there is no understanding on what is OK or not, it seems to just fester.

At least that's my take on it. Others may have a different opinion


-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

It all depends on your intention. Are you worried that the person might seriously damage himself or his dependents? Or do you just want to prove that you are smarter? The first is helpful; the second just annoying.

Although I fail at this, I try to stay out of p*ssing contests unless money is involved. As in, if I win, I get paid.

I can tell if someone knows something that I am interested in knowing by a careful reading of what he/she writes. Most of what we talk about is just passing time. Absolutely noble goal, but not worth arguing over.

Ha

Overall, my intention is to learn something. I value knowledge, often more than money. Call it my 'pay'. But that should not be one-sided, in fact it works better when it is an exchange, so if I can share knowledge in some cases I try to do that too. If my knowledge is challenged, and I am shown that I was misinformed, I learned something - I win either way!

So is it 'arguing', or 'exchanging ideas and information'? I think the diff is whether someone is willing to change their view when presented with new information. No willingness to change just leads to pointless arguing. A willingness to change, and an honest evaluation of information is an opportunity to learn.

To the point in my other post, I see 'arguing' as discourteous, and 'exchanging ideas and information' to be one of the purposes of this forum.

Maybe this is easier with a specific example: In that Gore/Nobel thread, when I point out what I see as inconsistencies between the IPCC and Gore's statements, it is not my intent to show how 'smart' I am. I have two purposes, one is to open up people's eyes to this posibility, the second is to put my thoughts out there to have them challenged. The report is complex, Gore does some dramatizing (which might be justified to a degree to reach a larger audience) - is it really the distortion I think it is, or did I miss something? I'll change my view if presented with reasonable information.

But I still don't like liver. That's my opinion, and I'm stickin' to it. Don't care what anyone says.

-ERD50

 

[Texas Proud]

Let's call it heated debate....

And one of the things I do is 'debate' the other side at times just to see what the other person will do...

Sometimes you get them....

 

[kumquat]

But I still don't like liver. That's my opinion, and I'm stickin' to it. Don't care what anyone says.

-ERD50

I won't eat that S**T either, good for you

 

[ladelfina]

He he he, you mean like T-al's flame throwing thread about funky milk?

I never quite figured out why that thread was closed except for the fact that it went (in someone's opinion) OT. Which is kinda the beauty of the forum. There have certainly been much more discourteous wheel-spinning threads than the milk one.

I tend to tolerate the soapboxes because the alternative would be heavy moderation (contentious in its own right) that would make the board more narrow, whereas its current incarnation is more of a bar/hangout spot for (mostly) smart, opinionated retirees and those on the path to FI. I think there are people here besides me that enjoy that aspect, since they may not have peers that understand them (I don't).

 

[haha]

I tend to tolerate the soapboxes because the alternative would be heavy moderation (contentious in its own right) that would make the board more narrow, whereas its current incarnation is more of a bar/hangout spot for (mostly) smart, opinionated retirees and those on the path to FI. I think there are people here besides me that enjoy that aspect, since they may not have peers that understand them (I don't).

I certainly enjoy that part, generally more than the purely financial part. If one is FI, and got there on his/her own wits, how much financial handholding do you want or need? I have had many questions answered helpfully on this board, and tried to answer some, but I wouldn't make it such a regular stop if I didn't enjoy the interaction of personalities here. A lot of moderation would kill that quickly. Also, it should be recognized that there are always control freaks that figure if something is annoying to them, they should just get it stamped out, rather than widening their horizons or looking the other way!

Let's remember too, that stopping into a bar to visit is going to cost at least $10 before you get out. This board is free, so while it isn't quite the same, it isn't bad either.

There are other boards that cover the same material, with similarly smart people, or in some cases many of the exact same smart people. But the boards have light traffic. Why? IMO part of it at least is the relative freedom that we have historically had here. Early on, it was very free wheeling.

I have met people from the board and always enjoyed it. Over time, I hope I will meet more of you.

Ha

 

[Danny]

Sounds like someone doesn't like the way other children are playing at recess and wants the princiapl to do something about it. Maybe whining really loudly will help.

Oh yeah: I can spell pretty well. I just cannot type.

 

[CuppaJoe]

But I still don't like liver. That's my opinion, and I'm stickin' to it. Don't care what anyone says.

-ERD50

Don't worry ERD50, if ever there was a food to go in and out of fashion with the health nut food police, liver is the one. I would just go ahead and call it unhealthy. And BTW, I hate onions!

 

[ERD50]

Well, it was a question - so thanks for the feedback...

Please note, I did frame it as a question (OK, probably a heavy handed question....), so thanks for the feedback.

Overwhelmingly, people seem to be saying 'go with the flow', or at least that any effort to moderate it would be worse than just tolerating it.

I thought there was more opposition to the soapbox threads, there are usually some kinda smarky comments in those thread to the OPs.

OK, so be it. I'll get off this soapbox then.

Although, I take that as also saying it is OK if I choose to take the OP to task (politely) for not defending their argument? Though, I will try to skip over those threads, if it hits a nerve I may feel inclined. That's fair, right?

Thanks for the clarification - ERD50

 

[ERD50]

And BTW, I hate onions!

Them's fightin' words! I love onions. Supposed to be good for you right?

Cream of Onion soup,mmmmm - whoops, we will be to contentious dairy product issues - better leave it at that...

Man, I thought I would like liver - then I realized it was just the smell of my Mom cooking the onions and bacon to go along with it.

-ERD50

 

[Danny]

Love the smell of onions garlic and EVO simmering in the fry pan!

 

[CuppaJoe]

Them's fightin' words! I love onions. Supposed to be good for you right?

Cream of Onion soup,mmmmm - whoops, we will be to contentious dairy product issues - better leave it at that...

Man, I thought I would like liver - then I realized it was just the smell of my Mom cooking the onions and bacon to go along with it.

-ERD50

Now! Now! Let's keep this civil. This time, I'm going to keep my mom out of it. Okay, I've been conceding as far as to eat green onions and shallots; but liver is now non-negotiable.

 

[ladelfina]

I'm worried about the toxic after-effects of being in a room with a family that's just finished a meal of cream of onion soup!

 

[HFWR]

Et tu, Nords?

Or is that "; et, tu nORdS"?

Thirty-seven years since high school Latin class...

Onions get three stars...

Liver one-and-a-half...

Hey, if you wanna [-]bitch[/-] rant [-]constantly[/-] occasionally, go for it. I'm with Ha: the free-wheeling, [-]smart-assed[/-] witty banter keeps the place interesting. But, if everytime I went to my favorite watering hole for an adult beverage, the same one or two fellow [-]drunkards[/-] patron(s) was/were constantly trying to "stir up a stink", I'd probably find other friends and/or a different bar...

 

[Rustic23]

I agree with HFWR. I have friends that don't agree with me on some subjects. They know my views, and I know theirs. Even if we don't see each other for several months, we don't start each meeting with.

____________ is an idiot.

_____________ broke the law

__________ should be impeached.

___________ health care is the only way to go.

If you believe ____________ will solve SS you are stupid.

And I get just as tired of the same people on this board making the same statement in almost every post. Example: Thread - Do you like eggs? Answer: I use to but OLD GEORGE'S health policies ruined it for me.

 

[brewer12345]

I agree with HFWR. I have friends that don't agree with me on some subjects. They know my views, and I know theirs. Even if we don't see each other for several months, we don't start each meeting with.

____________ is an idiot.

_____________ broke the law

__________ should be impeached.

___________ health care is the only way to go.

If you believe ____________ will solve SS you are stupid.

And I get just as tired of the same people on this board making the same statement in almost every post. Example: Thread - Do you like eggs? Answer: I use to but Old George's health policies ruined it for me.

Definately agree. But I think you will find taht the ignore list is a wonderful thing.

 

[Rustic23]

He's on it.

 

[ERD50]

Example: Thread - Do you like eggs? Answer: I use to but Old George's health policies ruined it for me.

You forgot to throw some all CAPS words in there - ERD50

 

[unclemick]

We are the ER forum and we know what's good for you.

The above superseeds - we're from the government and we're here to help you.!

Like Charlie Brown's Great Pumpkin - may the ghost of the Norwegian widow make your ER all warm and smarmy.

Ye of little faith - buck up!

'God Looks After Drunkards, Fools and The United States of America.'

Yes Gertrude - it really is 4% and a warm hand grenade - or a no. 2 pencil!

Discussion is futile - you WILL be ER'd!



heh heh heh - got it? Well do ya?