|
|
07-22-2014, 10:45 AM
|
#21
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,337
|
When our moderators close a thread, it's traditional to include a little cartoon clip. Porky Pig says "That's all folks!" It's probably a dated reference. I doubt my kids would recognize the reference.
__________________
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane -- Marcus Aurelius
|
|
|
|
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!
Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!
|
07-22-2014, 10:52 AM
|
#22
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Seattle
Posts: 6,023
|
If Porky shuts down one of the single most important topics for many early retirees (pre Medicare) then Porky should just shut down ER.org.
|
|
|
07-22-2014, 10:56 AM
|
#23
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,681
|
Right after that ruling, another ruling by the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals -
http://www.vox.com/2014/7/22/5926757...ies/in/5690430
This one rules that subsidies could be offered through the federal exchanges. Two rulings, coincidentally, on the same day.
Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum
__________________
Married, both 69. DH retired June, 2010. I have a pleasant little part time job.
|
|
|
ACA trouble. Appeals court rules subsidies illegal
07-22-2014, 11:03 AM
|
#24
|
Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 456
|
ACA trouble. Appeals court rules subsidies illegal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo Money
Well, I am going full-steam ahead with my 2015 ER. It's a ruling that's scary for me, here in PA, where there's a federally run exchange. If there are no subsidies, then some news reports (and common sense) suggest that the premiums will skyrocket for those non-subsidized insureds who remain -- like me. I will move. Massachusetts is looking a lot more inviting right now....
|
Sue J is right. Nothing is going to change anytime soon. This was a 2-1 ruling by one Appeals Court. It's my understand that the 4th Circuit Appeals Court rendered an opposite ruling indicating that the Federal subsidies are legal. The Supreme Court will have to decide this matter, but it won't be anytime soon.
|
|
|
07-22-2014, 11:14 AM
|
#25
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,337
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sue J
|
I'm not so sure it was a total coincidence. The 4th Circuit in Richmond is generally considered "liberal" but then so is the DC court. The DC court has had additional members added to make it also be a reliable "liberal" leaning court. I think both of these rulings were 3 judge panels so the full circuit court can rehear the appeal. That heavily favors the ACA subsidies being upheld. This can still be appealed to SCOTUS; but without a conflicting set of rulings by the Appeals courts, SCOTUS could take a pass. This allows the Appeals courts to remain in force. I do think that SCOTUS will eventually get involved if for no other reason that with a 5-4 "conservative" leaning I suspect they want to go on the record even if they will only uphold the Appeals courts rulings.
__________________
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane -- Marcus Aurelius
|
|
|
07-22-2014, 11:17 AM
|
#26
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,337
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fermion
If Porky shuts down one of the single most important topics for many early retirees (pre Medicare) then Porky should just shut down ER.org.
|
To avoid it, we need to not talk about "fair" and "fix opportunities" and refer to "other groups." There is much I'd like to change, fix and disparage "other groups" but I can't do any more than pontificate. Reality is what we have. The court rulings are just a shift in the reality from yesterday.
__________________
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane -- Marcus Aurelius
|
|
|
07-22-2014, 11:26 AM
|
#27
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 11,331
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2B
I'm not so sure it was a total coincidence. The 4th Circuit in Richmond is generally considered "liberal" but then so is the DC court. The DC court has had additional members added to make it also be a reliable "liberal" leaning court. I think both of these rulings were 3 judge panels so the full circuit court can rehear the appeal. That heavily favors the ACA subsidies being upheld. This can still be appealed to SCOTUS; but without a conflicting set of rulings by the Appeals courts, SCOTUS could take a pass. This allows the Appeals courts to remain in force. I do think that SCOTUS will eventually get involved if for no other reason that with a 5-4 "conservative" leaning I suspect they want to go on the record even if they will only uphold the Appeals courts rulings.
|
Yup, the DC Circuit decision is being pushed for an en banc decision by the whole court and could easily get reversed in which case the Supremes would probably ignore the issue.
__________________
Idleness is fatal only to the mediocre -- Albert Camus
|
|
|
07-22-2014, 11:57 AM
|
#28
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,337
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by donheff
Yup, the DC Circuit decision is being pushed for an en banc decision by the whole court and could easily get reversed in which case the Supremes would probably ignore the issue.
|
It's only my opinion but I do expect that Richmond and DC will uphold the subsidies. Then, I do expect SCOTUS to hear it. of course, somebody could always take it to New Orleans. That would probably get us back to conflicting rulings.
Not having read the bill I'm finding out what's in it along with what appears to be many of the people that voted for it. I'm concerned that if the language repeatedly referred to subsidies to only state exchanges that the judicial branch would just brush it aside. Even if the subsidies are thrown out somewhere along the line, I believe the fix by establishing state portals would be very minor.
I very much doubt that this would be the death of the ACA.
__________________
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane -- Marcus Aurelius
|
|
|
07-22-2014, 12:57 PM
|
#29
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 13,150
|
As long as health insurance, current or future doesn't have a restriction on pre-existing conditions, I'm a happy camper. Not that I have any major ones, but you never know
It will be interesting to see what happens when the dust settles.
__________________
Have you ever seen a headstone with these words
"If only I had spent more time at work" ... from "Busy Man" sung by Billy Ray Cyrus
|
|
|
07-22-2014, 12:59 PM
|
#30
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sarasota, FL & Vermont
Posts: 36,376
|
So the states just "subcontract" the running of their exchange to the feds.........problem solved with a simple contact. I'm not even sure if you need a front end unique to the state in that case since a resident will select the state they reside in at the start of their websurfing.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.
Retired Jan 2012 at age 56
|
|
|
07-22-2014, 01:03 PM
|
#31
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski
So the states just "subcontract" the running of their exchange to the feds.........problem solved with a simple contact. I'm not even sure if you need a front end unique to the state in that case since a resident will select the state they reside in at the start of their websurfing.
|
This may be all that is needed -- perhaps treating each state as its own "virtual exchange" with some of its own state-specific stuff in the front end.
That said, some states may refuse to do even this, especially the ones most ideologically opposed to the law.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
|
|
|
07-22-2014, 01:29 PM
|
#32
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 6,506
|
Seems to me the language of the law is plain. Refers to states, not the feds.
__________________
There must be moderation in everything, including moderation.
|
|
|
07-22-2014, 02:36 PM
|
#33
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Bonita (San Diego)
Posts: 1,795
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2B
I agree this is going to SCOTUS quickly. This is an interesting legal question. The intent was certainly not reflected in the actual language of the bill. So, what's a law? What we'd like or what it says?
|
It is interesting.
I expect the SCOTUS decision to be 5-4 declaring subsidies illegal on federal exchanges. I base that on the fact that thus far 4 Democratically-appointed judges say it's legal, and 2 Republican-appointed judges say it's illegal.
How DARE I insinuate that politics factor into the judciary!?!
__________________
"So we beat to our own drummer in the sun;
We ask for nobody's permission to run.
I just wanna live in a world like that;
Now I'm gonna live in a world like that!" - World Like That, O.A.R.
|
|
|
07-22-2014, 03:00 PM
|
#34
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,985
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by easysurfer
As long as health insurance, current or future doesn't have a restriction on pre-existing conditions, I'm a happy camper. Not that I have any major ones, but you never know
It will be interesting to see what happens when the dust settles.
|
I'm in the same boat. Looking back just a few years ago the big concern was a lack of options and being thrown into a high risk pool at best. In researching the subject I found that it didn't take much to qualify for a pre existing condition.
No doubt it's going to be expensive but at least it's something. Since my DW and I have no desire to live on less than 60k per year we were out of the running for the subsidy for about half the years to 65 anyway. Now it looks like we may have to figure out a new strategy for this never ending game.
__________________
Took SS at 62 and hope I live long enough to regret the decision.
|
|
|
07-22-2014, 03:01 PM
|
#35
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Madeira Beach Fl
Posts: 1,403
|
Single payer system here we come!
__________________
_______________________________________________
"A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and goes to bed at night and in between does what he wants to do" --Bob Dylan.
|
|
|
07-22-2014, 03:12 PM
|
#36
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,743
|
I'm glad I live in MA. Even if the ACA is repealed MA will revert back to "Romney care".
|
|
|
07-22-2014, 03:12 PM
|
#37
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 9,358
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29
This may be all that is needed -- perhaps treating each state as its own "virtual exchange" with some of its own state-specific stuff in the front end.
That said, some states may refuse to do even this, especially the ones most ideologically opposed to the law.
|
That will make for a lot of unhappy campers in the states where people are getting subsidies now.
|
|
|
07-22-2014, 03:15 PM
|
#38
|
Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 585
|
I'm thinking of people with pre-existing conditions who are now getting their insurance through the federal exchange. If those people get a huge monthly increase because of the removal of the subsidies, they will not be able to get an alternative insurance on the open market (individual policy) that covers their pre-existing condition. My understanding is that if someone applies for insurance on their own (not going through the exchange), the insurance companies can still consider their pre-existing conditions. Is that correct?
So if my statements above are correct, in effect most of those people with pre-existing conditions would be stuck on the federal exchange with much higher premiums with little or no other options other than to move to a state that has it's own exchange. That would be a huge mess, especially if those people previously had a good plan that was discontinued by their insurance company...and forced onto the exchange.
Please correct me if my understanding of this is incorrect.
Edited later: I called my insurance provider, Cigna, and they told me that once a person buys their insurance on the ACA exchange, Cigna will no longer offer a plan to that person that is not on the ACA exchange. So my understanding above was incorrect. So it sounds like a person would have no other alternative other than to pick a cheaper plan on the ACA exchange if/when their premiums rose because of the subsidy removal....or move to a state that has it's their own exchange. Also, pre-existing conditions no longer matter once you switch to the ACA exchange because you can never again apply for coverage that takes pre-existing conditions into consideration.
|
|
|
07-22-2014, 03:16 PM
|
#39
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Oregon Coast
Posts: 16,483
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by daylatedollarshort
That will make for a lot of unhappy campers in the states where people are getting subsidies now.
|
Yes, it would. And they would have to explain to their constituents why they pay taxes into the federal subsidy program without receiving any of the benefits of said taxes.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)
|
|
|
07-22-2014, 03:19 PM
|
#40
|
Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 585
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29
This may be all that is needed -- perhaps treating each state as its own "virtual exchange" with some of its own state-specific stuff in the front end.
That said, some states may refuse to do even this, especially the ones most ideologically opposed to the law.
|
I can almost guarantee that Texas will not create their own exchange. I'm screwed!
|
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Threads
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
» Quick Links
|
|
|