Adventures in Ketosis (long)

[audreyh1]

Glad you are closely monitoring your BP. You don’t want to get dizzy or faint. I had difficulty with some occasional light-headedness for a while - particularly during yoga. Then it seemed to normalize.

 

[Time2]

Glad you are closely monitoring your BP. You don’t want to get dizzy or faint. I had difficulty with some occasional light-headedness for a while - particularly during yoga. Then it seemed to normalize.

Sorry I messed that up. I changed it above.

I'm not reducing my statins, (Yet).


Ya, I have had a few incidents when I know my BP is low, when I feel that, I check my BP and it is usually under 110 systollic.

I have reduced my BP meds, If my BP was over 125 I took a 1/2 a pill, and did that off and on for a few days, but now, I haven't taken any BP med for for two days, but monitoring in case it spikes. I see in Dr Phinney has said in his videos, he tries to get his patients off of their BP meds in the first week.
It seems incredible that such a short change in diet has this affect on lowering BP.

 

[audreyh1]

I believe it's simply because your body sheds a lot of water at first in ketosis. Water retention for whatever reason makes blood pressure rise. Your body does not hold onto nearly as much water when you stop eating a lot of carbs. Some of it is the reduction in glycogen which binds a lot of water, but there is also retention of sodium by the kidneys on a high carb diet due to higher insulin levels. So there is a lot of water shedding in the first week or two, and your BP quickly drops.

 

[Golden sunsets]

Glad you are closely monitoring your BP. You don’t want to get dizzy or faint. I had difficulty with some occasional light-headedness for a while - particularly during yoga. Then it seemed to normalize.

Audrey; What have you read on lowered blood pressure as it relates to the ketogenic diet. Does it drop because you lose weight which naturally lowers your blood pressure, or is there another dynamic at play. I ask because DH, up until he started the ketogenic diet had occasional episodes of orthostatic hypotension, which is dropping blood pressure when standing from a sitting or laying down position. These occasional episodes are well known to be related to a particular medication and medical condition that he has. As a result he started taking a BP med that increases his blood pressure.

Then he went on the ketogenic diet at the end of May 2019. At some point during late summer he began to have more frequent episodes of light headedness to the point where he fell twice, nearly fell several other times and it had become a very big concern for him (and me by extension). He has lost about 27 pounds on keto. We have consulted several of his physicians and have it mostly under control now as a result of adjusting his medication schedule and dramatically upping his hydration with Nunn tablets in water several times a day.

I began to realize though that the only thing that had changed between the occasional episodes and frequent episode period, was the keto diet and the substantial weight loss. But I don't know if it is just weight loss or also the keto food he has been eating. Thus my question to you......


Thanks

 

[audreyh1]

Audrey; What have you read on lowered blood pressure as it relates to the ketogenic diet. Does it drop because you lose weight which naturally lowers your blood pressure, or is there another dynamic at play.

I gave some answers already above.

No, it’s not initially weight loss related as the BP drop happens more quickly than the weight loss. Mostly it’s due to the water loss which happens in the first week or so. Your body’s glycogen store is depleted due to the low carb diet, and as glycogen is used up a lot of water that was bound to it is released. Lots of peeing involved. Also, as insulin drops due to much lower blood sugar, the kidneys release a lot of sodium which means the body retains less water. There may be other effects.

Retaining less water means that blood pressure drops.

I’m sure later weight loss also helps, but the initial drop is very dramatic.

So anyone with blood pressure issues or on blood pressure medication really should talk with their doctor about strategies to handle these changes before going on a keto diet.

 

[Time2]

Have any middle age males (60+) on a keto diet noticed any additional night time difficulty with urination?

 

[harley]

Have any middle age males (60+) on a keto diet noticed any additional night time difficulty with urination?

Not sure what you mean by difficulty. My difficulty is not sleeping through the night because I have to get up and pee 4 times. But that didn't change when I went LCHF/keto. Still the same old routine.

 

[audreyh1]

Have any middle age males (60+) on a keto diet noticed any additional night time difficulty with urination?

I assume the difficulty you are talking about is having to get up during the night to pee.

You are usually going to pee way more for the first two weeks including having to get up more often at night.

 

[Time2]

I assume the difficulty you are talking about is having to get up during the night to pee.

You are usually going to pee way more for the first two weeks including having to get up more often at night.

I'm 3-1/2 weeks in, never really had much notice of any extra urination.

 

[Time2]

Not sure what you mean by difficulty. My difficulty is not sleeping through the night because I have to get up and pee 4 times. But that didn't change when I went LCHF/keto. Still the same old routine.

I'm sure I have un-diagnosed BPH, so slow flow, start and stop, But when 6am roles around it all changes and it flows fine for the rest of the day. I have got up twice nightly for a long time. Been a bit more lately, since I started keto, and it is a bit harder to get started and have good flow.
I'll be having a PSA test in 3 weeks, over the last 5 years my PSA has run 1.5 to 1.8.
I hit 3.0 ketones for the first time. Ate and took a walk and it dropped to 2.6.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Have any middle age males (60+) on a keto diet noticed any additional night time difficulty with urination?

Not really. I sleep well and maybe get up once a night.

 

[TromboneAl]

Ever since I stopped long distance cycling, I never have to get up at night. Weird but nice.

 

[audreyh1]

Ever since I stopped long distance cycling, I never have to get up at night. Weird but nice.

Hmmm. Interesting. Cycling can irritate the prostate which in turn can cause PSA to rise.

 

[6miths]

PSA probably rises because the prostate is getting bumped around so much. This also likely causes some low grade inflammation or enlargement which leads to symptoms of prostatic enlargement - poor stream, early sensation of bladder fullness, frequent urination.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

I just now found this thread. Late to the party, but very interested.

 

[audreyh1]

I just now found this thread. Late to the party, but very interested.

Ha, and I just posted a reply to your thread!

I think it’s good that you started your own thread. This thread is pretty long.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

OK, finally worked my way through this thread, very timely.
My pants are fitting a bit tight and bending over my belly is making it more difficult to breath. I could lose 10lbs and be at a BMI of 25, so I'm not terribly heavy. But I'm ready to give this Keto diet a try. I am on BP meds and a statin. With my yearly blood tests in a 2 or 3 months, so this is a good time to see if I can change the numbers. I have always had a very low HDL
of about 34! My LDL/HDL ratio is not terrible, but could be better. TRIGs are to high.
So, I know my first reduction will be soda and popcorn, almost an evening ritual. What can I sub as an evening drink to replace the soda? Tonight I just had hot water and pork rinds as the snack.
Second problem, I have breakfast twice a week with the boys, at McDonalds.
I usually order a Breakfast Burrito and coffee. The Burrito has 25 grams of carbs, that shoots the carb budget. Is there anything on the breakfast menu that I could eat and stay on the keto diet? I notice one of the boys eats fluffy eggs and sausage only, but I think the meal is supposed to come with pancakes and maple syrup. I'll need to check, but I think the eggs and sausage would work. If it comes down to it, I could just have coffee and go home to eat.

I do about the same. We occasionally order the 2fer$4 or $5 egg and sausage McMuffins and I just do not eat the bread. Ask for a plastic knife and fork.

 

[Time2]

I just went cold turkey, only coffee at breakfast with the boys.
I also haven't had any soft drinks, or alcohol for 4+ weeks.
I've lost 9 lbs but my weight seems to have plateaued, but I'm eating
only eating about 1500 calories a day. I'm walking at least 5 miles a day and just signed up at Planet Fitness, ans slowly starting some weights.
I'm using Cronometer to track my food, noted I'm not getting all the vitamins and minerals I need. I ordered a multivitamin, although more meat may bring the vitamins and minerals up.

 

[audreyh1]

Are you eating enough fat?

 

[Time2]

Are you eating enough fat?

I think so, I only have the last 3 days logged in Cronometer, But averaging
136 Grams of fat keeping my carbs at about 20 and 65 to 85 grams of Protein. I got some protein powder today, because I know I've been a little low with protein. I'm looking for a piece of cheap Beef I can pre cook rare and freeze, then pop 4oz in the microwave and have that to gnaw on for about 30 grams of protein. I saw pork loin for $2.69, but I'd rather have beef.
Tonight I added the last bit of fat with a cup bouillon made with a cube,

2 TBLS of Olive oil, and 1/2 scoop of MCT powder. That's a quick 30 grams and I don't even like my bouillon without olive oil anymore!

 

[audreyh1]

Well you probably just need time. Weight loss can stall for a while and then resume. It’s not as simple and formulaic as many seem to believe.

I didn’t have much to lose and it ultimately took me over 6 months to lose 16 pounds and drop from a BMI of under 27 to one under 24.

 

[Time2]

I'm not terribly concerned about losing much more. I have a little paunch I'd like to shrink, "36" stomach" But now, I'm starting to work on adding a little muscle. I signed up at Planet Fitness on Mar 5 and started a dumbbell lifting routine. If I stay at the same weight but gain muscle and lose fat I'd be fine. Btw, once I started keto I also started walking again and have been walking 5 or 6 miles everyday. 2hr walk, enjoying science related podcasts!

I find at PF the treadmills are a little different, you can see your heart rate and if you set a target rate, it will increase the incline to keep you there. I put in my body details and it recommended 131 bps, at 65 and not in tiptop shape, I set it for 120 and ran a full hr at 3.6 mph. I'll do this for a few weeks and gradually increase the target heart rate.
Something I noted on the treadmill, If my heart rate is say 120, and I then take several deep breaths and oxygenate my body, I can watch my heart rate drop 5bps in very short time. That seems to make sense, although, I also wonder why my breath rate is not increasing to keep my oxygen level higher, (if that if needed). I'm not sure if I'm stating that well, my heart rate is high because my body needs more oxygen, but if taking in more air/oxygen lowers my heart rate, why hasn't my body forced faster breathing. Or it could be, that's just the way it is.

I don't get out of breath and could carry on a conversation.

I don't want to over do it, my dad had a heart attack at 43yrs old and a couple more after that. His brother has also had heart surgery.
But for me, I think I'm doing well at 65.
I'm keeping a spotty record of my BP, I need to do better at BP recording.
I have I'm taking 1/2 BP pill maybe every other day, If my BP systolic is over 132 I take 1/2 pill. My diastolic is always in the 70s or 60s.
I'm enjoying this foray into monitoring my bodies reaction to eating and exercise, I have about 2.5 weeks until I get blood tests. I'm hoping to see some changes!

 

[audreyh1]

A couple months after starting my keto diet I upped my activity level by adding more weight training. This was partly out of concern to not lose muscle even though muscle loss has not been reported for keto diets. I was already getting reasonable exercise.

Personally at my age (60) I don’t worry about maintaining some target heart rate anymore. Just get moving and maintain it for a while. If I feel great I move a little faster, but I don’t push it.

 

[Time2]

I have a an update that I'm pretty excited about.


I have Great results in my blood test while on a Keto diet.
I have been on a Keto Diet for 7 weeks before the blood tests.
I tried for 20 Carbs, but in reality I was between 20 and 30 grams.
I'm weighing and tracking all my food in Cronometer.
I also take 5 mile walk almost every day, I also added some other exercises, since I started Keto.
I lost 11 lbs while on keto. Also, my doc changed my cholesterol med since my last test. (Lovastatin to Rosuvastatin)
So, the improvements include, Keto, exercise, weight loss and a change of cholesterol med.
I wish doc had not changed my med, so I had a clearer picture.

 

[harley]

Excellent! What dose of Rosuvastatin are you on? I read (I think it was Jason Fung) that low dose Rosuvastatin (5mg) is really effective at lowering inflammation, while not overdosing you on the statin. With those numbers you might want to talk to your doctor about the lower dose. Of course, if you're one of those that doesn't have statin side effects it may not matter. But it would be nice to get a reading based on the low dose too, just to see how whether it's worthwhile to take it or not. But congrats on an excellent set of numbers.