Another duh! health study

[donheff]

Probably so, but there are a lot of people around who live very stable healthy habits. You just have to be clear about what you are after. Everyone says he wants to be healthy, but health is something that is only partially under our control. You can be a marathoner and have cancer nevertheless. My goal is clear, and I have never failed to maintain it. I want to to be lean. I hope this improves my health, but I know that it improves my appearance. Once you get a few years on you, no one expects you to look like you are young. I don't think there is any area of life where one gets a bigger bang for the buck as in maintaining an attractive body, and job number one here is weight control, and at least moderate muscle firmness. Very important inner changes can follow from this very straightforward essentially superficial goal.

For most of us, once past 35 or 40, to be lean means to be very aware of what is going into our mouths. I am not interested in whether a diet, or portion control. or regular exercise is what people choose, though I know people who do something month after month and it never seems to work. I know what I do and I will do it forever. I consider much food to be almost like heroin for a middle aged, middle class American. Just stand back, avoid the risk, because just looking around shows us that although fattening food can be avoided, it generally cannot be limited effectively enough to stay lean. This is a struggle this is best finessed.

Ha

+1. Like Ha I want to stay lean for two reasons: 1) you look and feel better, and 2) weight gains are correlated with poor health outcomes to a vastly greater degree than almost anything else outside of smoking. Loading up on the latest cholesterol lowering miracle drug may extend your life by a few days. Dropping 10% of your body fat may get you years and more importantly may improve the quality of those years. I slimmed down about 18% and have stayed lean for more than three years with very little effort. But I watch what I put in my mouth. In my particular case, paying attention to what I eat matters. I never even look at portion size or calorie counts. But this stuff seems to vary dramatically from person to person. Others swear by portion control. Try experimenting with what you eat. Measure your weight changes carefully and pay close attention to what foods work for you. An accurate scale is your friend.

 

[ElizabethT]

Probably so, but there are a lot of people around who live very stable healthy habits. You just have to be clear about what you are after. Everyone says he wants to be healthy, but health is something that is only partially under our control. You can be a marathoner and have cancer nevertheless. My goal is clear, and I have never failed to maintain it. I want to to be lean. I hope this improves my health, but I know that it improves my appearance. Once you get a few years on you, no one expects you to look like you are young. I don't think there is any area of life where one gets a bigger bang for the buck as in maintaining an attractive body, and job number one here is weight control, and at least moderate muscle firmness. Very important inner changes can follow from this very straightforward essentially superficial goal.

For most of us, once past 35 or 40, to be lean means to be very aware of what is going into our mouths. I am not interested in whether a diet, or portion control. or regular exercise is what people choose, though I know people who do something month after month and it never seems to work. I know what I do and I will do it forever. I consider much food to be almost like heroin for a middle aged, middle class American. Just stand back, avoid the risk, because just looking around shows us that although fattening food can be avoided, it generally cannot be limited effectively enough to stay lean. This is a struggle this is best finessed.

Ha

+2
Very well said. Being lean is a daily, concious choice involving many lifestyle tradeoffs, but one I am willing to continue to make. I get much pleasure in making healthy, good-for-us meals, I enjoy shopping for clothes because, dare I say, I look rather nice in my clothes, and DH and I truly enjoy our daily physical pursuits, often turning them into full day activities.

One other thing, a tradeoff I appreciate more and more as I get older and my metabolism slows, is each calorie I burn being physically active is a calorie I can then eat without gaining weight. Meaning that a beautiful five mile hike in a nearby canyon buys me 500 or so extra calories I can enjoy on top of my daily 'norm' without weight gain. This ying and yang is how we balance the joy of a good meal with the joy of being lean and energetic.

 

[sengsational]

Getting past putting on fat in layers and the well thought-out ideas concerning weight gain and health....I thought a little bit about the OP study and wondered a bit. Might it have gone something like this?

Study Doc: Please step on the scale.
Study Participant: (gets on scale)
Study Doc: Raises eyebrows. Ok, fill out the paper.
Study Participant: (reads paper..."how much junk food do you eat")
Study Participant: (thinking..."we've been told our whole lives eating junk food makes you fat. I'm fat. But I'm not going to confirm that I'm fat AND stupid! I'm going to write down less junk food than I really eat".

That study was cheap to run and gave nothing but a stupid headline.

How about this as a non-cheap but telling study...grab a cohort, split 'em in half randomly, then give one half grocery store credits for only soda pop, candy, and the like. Give the other half grocery store credits for any food except soda pop, candy and the like. Give the candy half coupons to McDonalds and give the other half coupons to a healthy restaurant (if there is such a thing). I think most everyone here could predict the outcome, which would be just the opposite of what the OP study indicated.

 

[nash031]

There's not one single cause for our overeating...

We mindlessly eat salty snacks that have large calorie counts with little nutritional value. How many of us can go through half a bag of Chex Mix without really thinking about it? I can.

Restaurants serve huge portions on gigantic plates to the point where some feel obligated to finish. No one needs a 16oz steak in one sitting or an 8oz burger, but lots of people will put one away... with fries on the side, no less. Grocers are in on it, selling 16oz steaks and oversized chicken breasts leading us to believe that's a proper portion size, when it isn't. Not many of us go home and cut that 16oz steak into two or three portions, but we should.

Lots of folks can easily put away a 22oz microbrew IPA bottle in a night without a problem... containing as many calories as a six-pack of Bud Light to boot.

We can eat sugars and simple carbs to satisfaction, but that satisfaction lasts much less time than eating protein or fat due to our body's insulin response. We start to feel hungry even though we're not.

Our bodies seek out nutrition naturally, but when we eat foods devoid of nutritional value, we seek out more food to try to fill that void.

We eat too fast such that we're still eating well after we've got the food we need at any given meal. We eat while watching TV or reading or doing other things which distract ourselves from the signals our bodies are trying to send to tell us we're satisfied.

We lose the battle at the grocery store when we buy the potato chips and reach for those instead of an apple.

All kinds of different reasons for obesity, most of which have to do with the food choices we make... not just the size of the plate we eat, but our body's ability to manage appetite which is artificially manipulated by foods with no nutritional value but lots of calories.

The problem is that it's not a simple fix. It's a whole host of things you have to do to properly control your weight... exercising more helps; choosing the right foods helps; eating proper portion sizes helps... but IMO you're not going to fix obesity by just changing one thing, and continuing to study the problem as if there's one single cause is a waste of resources. We already know the answer to this complex problem.

 

[Mulligan]

Nash, I wish it was just half a bag. I can tear up a whole big bag of chips in a day. I love that salt! I had to accept years ago, I just cant have them in my house. No restraint capabilities at all. About once a month I treat myself and buy a bag knowing there is no chance the bag will survive to the next day once it is opened.


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[donheff]

Nash, I wish it was just half a bag. I can tear up a whole big bag of chips in a day. I love that salt! I had to accept years ago, I just cant have them in my house. No restraint capabilities at all. About once a month I treat myself and buy a bag knowing there is no chance the bag will survive to the next day once it is opened.


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I have to keep chips completely out of the house. Crunchy Cheetos are impossible. Yesterday DW made Toll House chocolate chip cookies with the grand kids. She sent the bulk of the home but left a can full - about a dozen cookies. They are gone. I figured that I would have less likelihood incorporating them if I just blew through them at one sitting than if I spaced them out over several days. And, if I spaced them out, I would have had several days of agony knowing that more were sitting in the fridge waiting for me.

 

[Mulligan]

I have to keep chips completely out of the house. Crunchy Cheetos are impossible. Yesterday DW made Toll House chocolate chip cookies with the grand kids. She sent the bulk of the home but left a can full - about a dozen cookies. They are gone. I figured that I would have less likelihood incorporating them if I just blew through them at one sitting than if I spaced them out over several days. And, if I spaced them out, I would have had several days of agony knowing that more were sitting in the fridge waiting for me.

That is the truth...Better just to blow through and be done with it than get accustomed to the daily treat and try to break habit all over again. I tried that, and the daily treat just grows.


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[nash031]

Nash, I wish it was just half a bag. I can tear up a whole big bag of chips in a day. I love that salt! I had to accept years ago, I just cant have them in my house. No restraint capabilities at all. About once a month I treat myself and buy a bag knowing there is no chance the bag will survive to the next day once it is opened.

I really watch what I eat when I'm training as I try to maintain a weight a little below what's probably normal or fully long-term healthy for me. I can settle in around 155-160 eating pretty well and I think that's my good long term weight. I race between 145 and 150, so I cut alcohol, salty snacks, and sweets when I want to drop weight from "normal" to "race". Once race time is over, yeah... the Sea Salt and Cracked Pepper Kettle Cooked chips show up alongside the cheddar cheese chex mix and whatever IPA sounds good and I'll do that for a few weeks or months. But the vast majority of the time, I eat very healthfully and it's what you do the plurality of the time that matters most. In other words, you can have chips every once in a while so long as the overwhelming majority of your food choices are healthy.

I know I can't control eating those empty calories as well as I can other foods, so I keep them out of reach. I win the battle at the grocery store before I ever have to fight it at home.

I find that shopping shortly after a good meal makes it a lot easier to say no to the impulse purchases.

 

[AllDone]

I don't go down the dangerous aisles in the grocery store. My DH brings that stuff home, but fortunately we don't have similar junk food tastes. There is no way that I could keep salted pecans or macadamias in the house. He likes store bought cookies and those cookie/protein bar things which to me aren't even worth the trouble of walking to the pantry.

 

[MRG]

I don't go down the dangerous aisles in the grocery store.
..snip...

Too good, I do the same. Other than legumes, frozen veggies, and grains I don't go through the inner isles any more. Every thing I need to eat comes from the perimeter of the store. All the junk food is in the middle.

 

[nash031]

I don't go down the dangerous aisles in the grocery store. My DH brings that stuff home, but fortunately we don't have similar junk food tastes. There is no way that I could keep salted pecans or macadamias in the house. He likes store bought cookies and those cookie/protein bar things which to me aren't even worth the trouble of walking to the pantry.

Macadamias are actually some of the most nutritious nuts out there. It's hard to keep to one handful, but if you can they're really good for you.

 

[audreyh1]

Macadamias are actually some of the most nutritious nuts out there. It's hard to keep to one handful, but if you can they're really good for you.

I'm eating a huge amount of nuts these days, including macadamias, but I'm still losing weight.

 

[travelover]

I'm eating a huge amount of nuts these days, including macadamias, but I'm still losing weight.

+1 Nuts are a great snack food, though I have to pace myself. They do give a satisfying full feeling after eating them, as opposed to some snacks that just seem to disappear leaving me still hungry.

 

[donheff]

Nuts are one of my everyday foods. Again, I don't pay any attention to how much. I eat as much as I feel like. Currently I have cashews, almonds, pistachios. macadamias, and mixed nuts.

 

[Mulligan]

Nuts are one of my everyday foods. Again, I don't pay any attention to how much. I eat as much as I feel like. Currently I have cashews, almonds, pistachios. macadamias, and mixed nuts.

I need to do more of that. I like nuts, but they will always lose when competing with chips and candy whenever they magically appear in my cabinet.


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[harley]

Well, regarding the study in the OP, I've been losing some weight recently, even while still eating McDonalds and such. A triathlete friend of mine told me about an application called myfitnesspal, and I started using it. I'd always heard tracking your food and calories was helpful, but before these new apps getting the calorie count for foods was a major PITA. But using this app I've been able to drop 14 lbs. Still got about 30 to go. But I eat McDonald's, pizza, Taco Hell, etc. as well as healthier prepared at home foods and restaurants like Panera and Carrabbas. Basically as long as the calorie count stays below my target for losing a lb. every couple of weeks, I'm good. Doesn't matter what the food is. And as ElizabethT says, if I do some exercise or physical labor I get to eat some additional calories.

I've stopped logging my food recently what with our southern migration, but I plan to start back up once we're settled. I could decrease the calories and lose weight faster, but I figure it took me almost 40 years to get here, so taking a year or so to get back is reasonable. It lets me still enjoy my life food-wise, while making good incremental progress.

I don't know if the study I posted is legit or not, as far as who eats the higher percentage of junk food. But I do know that the only way to lose weight is to take in fewer calories than the number that would maintain or increase your weight. I really don't think it matters where the calories come from, as long as you avoid scurvy and rickets and such. Personally I try to stay away from too much bread and starch, but only because they stimulate me to eat a ton more of them. Even as a diabetic I don't see any particular impact on my blood sugar when I eat bread and starches, as long as I stay below my calorie target. That's been my experience, anyway.

 

[MRG]

Well, regarding the study in the OP, I've been losing some weight recently, even while still eating McDonalds and such. A triathlete friend of mine told me about an application called myfitnesspal, and I started using it. I'd always heard tracking your food and calories was helpful, but before these new apps getting the calorie count for foods was a major PITA. But using this app I've been able to drop 14 lbs. Still got about 30 to go. But I eat McDonald's, pizza, Taco Hell, etc. as well as healthier prepared at home foods and restaurants like Panera and Carrabbas. Basically as long as the calorie count stays below my target for losing a lb. every couple of weeks, I'm good. Doesn't matter what the food is. And as ElizabethT says, if I do some exercise or physical labor I get to eat some additional calories.

I've stopped logging my food recently what with our southern migration, but I plan to start back up once we're settled. I could decrease the calories and lose weight faster, but I figure it took me almost 40 years to get here, so taking a year or so to get back is reasonable. It lets me still enjoy my life food-wise, while making good incremental progress.

I don't know if the study I posted is legit or not, as far as who eats the higher percentage of junk food. But I do know that the only way to lose weight is to take in fewer calories than the number that would maintain or increase your weight. I really don't think it matters where the calories come from, as long as you avoid scurvy and rickets and such. Personally I try to stay away from too much bread and starch, but only because they stimulate me to eat a ton more of them. Even as a diabetic I don't see any particular impact on my blood sugar when I eat bread and starches, as long as I stay below my calorie target. That's been my experience, anyway.

Too funny harley, I started using MFP too. I thought someone here mentioned it in a thread. I agree it doesn't seem to matter where your calories come from but the amount for weight loss. I don't do well with self control if I'm eating ice creams and gooey chocolates so I don't bring those home.

Anyway I lost my last 21 pounds of my 50 pound goal using MFP. We were using Mapmywalk too for our walking exercise calories, until moving inside. I think MFP made loosing much easier and definitely I learned a lot about nutrition by using the application.

 

[Accidental Retiree]

Too funny harley, I started using MFP too. I thought someone here mentioned it in a thread. I agree it doesn't seem to matter where your calories come from but the amount for weight loss. I don't do well with self control if I'm eating ice creams and gooey chocolates so I don't bring those home.

Anyway I lost my last 21 pounds of my 50 pound goal using MFP. We were using Mapmywalk too for our walking exercise calories, until moving inside. I think MFP made loosing much easier and definitely I learned a lot about nutrition by using the application.

I prefer MFP to other apps I've used; between that app and my Fitbit Flex, I've managed to lose a bit and find a routine that works for me.

 

[nash031]

Re: Nuts.

They're good because if you eat them somewhat slowly, they'll fill you up pretty quickly from the fat and protein content. Most of the good nuts (macs, walnuts, almonds, pistachios, etc.) have other good nutritional properties and relatively good Omega 3-6-9 profiles (almonds being the exception to that, macs and walnuts are good sources of 3, almonds have more 6 which we already get too much of, really). They're a great snack, but they can be easy to overeat because you can just pop them.

I always take a handful, go elsewhere and eat them. That usually keeps me from just plugging through the whole bag of almonds/macs. I usually only do walnuts on oatmeal or salad.

Peanuts, on the other hand, are pretty much nutritionally worthless, and peanut butter should be avoided for the sugar content. But it's not a nut anyway!

My family runs a severe peanut allergy. I am not as severe as others, but for the longest time I avoided peanuts and all tree nuts. A few times I accidentally ingested some walnuts or almonds, and never seemed to have a problem. Then one day I told DW, "watch me for a minute." She asked why, and without warning her I ate a few raw almonds. She was pissed, but she wouldn't have let me try it otherwise... I had no reaction and now macs, almonds, and walnuts are a regular part of my diet. I avoid cashews because they're often a problem for people with even a mild peanut allergy.

 

[unclemick]

Nope. It's the Kardashians.

Good one.

Silly me. And I was going to blame too much couch potato time watching football. How old fashioned.

heh heh heh - New Wife, great cook, moved closer to center of Kansas City and great restaurants. And dropping gym membership didn't help either. 195 to 165 and back to 182.

Of course it's really old age and time in ER.

 

[AllDone]

Nuts are one of my everyday foods. Again, I don't pay any attention to how much. I eat as much as I feel like. Currently I have cashews, almonds, pistachios. macadamias, and mixed nuts.

Oh how I wish that I could eat them with abandon. Unfortunately they fatten me up like a pig fed acorns. Far too more-ish.

 

[audreyh1]

+1 Nuts are a great snack food, though I have to pace myself. They do give a satisfying full feeling after eating them, as opposed to some snacks that just seem to disappear leaving me still hungry.

I suspect I'm not getting enough calories in my regular meals on my strict rotation diet. So when I snack, I eat the allowed nut-of-the-day. Fortunately, most tree nuts (and peanuts) are on my allowed list. I just rotate over 4 days.

And I'm actually eating an amazing amount of nuts. Like maybe a cup many days.

It's one of the few foods, besides fruit, that is quick and easy for me to snack on. Most of the foods on my list require prep, and I can't eat leftovers the next 3 days, so I can't just reach in the fridge for something prepared.

No gluten cuts out most bread type products. No dairy. No cheese. Pretty much no dips without dairy/cheese. Corn's allowed - but I've been avoiding popcorn and tortilla chips because I don't seem to feel that good afterwards. Occasionally have rice crackers - not much to them.

So nuts and the occasional fruit it is.

 

[harley]

Peanuts, on the other hand, are pretty much nutritionally worthless, and peanut butter should be avoided for the sugar content. But it's not a nut anyway!

Peanuts are not nuts, that's true. But they definitely have nutritional value. From Wikipedia:

Peanuts are rich in essential nutrients. In a 100 g serving, peanuts provide 570 calories and are an excellent source (defined as more than 20% of the Daily Value, DV) of several B vitamins, vitamin E, several dietary minerals, such as manganese (95% DV), magnesium (52% DV) and phosphorus (48% DV), and dietary fiber. They also contain about 25 g protein per 100 g serving, a higher proportion than in many tree nuts.

New research shows peanuts, especially the skins, to have comparable polyphenol content of many fruits.

Peanut skins are a significant source of resveratrol, a phenolic under research for a variety of potential effects in humans.

I also agree that sugared up peanut butter should be avoided, but natural peanut butter, while not a huge favorite of mine, is not bad for you. It's more the bread and jelly that cause a problem for me. But a dab on an apple slice or celery stick is a nice treat.

I prefer peanuts to peanut butter. I'm going to try that "take a handful and walk away" idea. I can go through half a jar of peanuts without hardly noticing.

 

[sengsational]

I really don't think it matters where the calories come from, as long as you avoid scurvy and rickets and such. Personally I try to stay away from too much bread and starch, but only because they stimulate me to eat a ton more of them.

See, I find that there's a conflict within those two sentences; the second sentence, very common, if not universal, is the reason I disagree with the first.

Not only does a refined carb calorie stimulate appetite more than other foods (not even much debated any more...high glycemic index ==> blood sugar roller-coaster ==> whacked-out appetite), those refined carbs affect gut microbiota. Exactly what that latter point means is under investigation, but I don't think it's nothing.

 

[audreyh1]

Peanuts are not nuts, that's true. But they definitely have nutritional value. From Wikipedia:

I also agree that sugared up peanut butter should be avoided, but natural peanut butter, while not a huge favorite of mine, is not bad for you. It's more the bread and jelly that cause a problem for me. But a dab on an apple slice or celery stick is a nice treat.

I prefer peanuts to peanut butter. I'm going to try that "take a handful and walk away" idea. I can go through half a jar of peanuts without hardly noticing.

For 32g (2 Tbsp) of my organic PB, which is just peanuts and salt, I'm seeing 6g of carbs and 1g of sugars. The rest is fat and protein.

I never thought of peanuts as high in sugar, but I'm not a carb counter.