Cardiac diet?

[Chuckanut]

Does anybody know how a super low fat diets can cure diseases that aren't caused by fat in the diet?.

Your assumption seems to be that fat in the diet causes fat in the body. I don't think that is necessarily true. My personal experience is that processed carbs, especially sugar, cause fat in my body. We are all different so YMMV.

 

[Scuba]

Self order labs like walkinlabs and ultalabs have numerous heart panels for reasonable prices. Tracking his healthy heart biomarkers may take the guesswork out of which diet your husband would do best on. We've found we can order more comprehensive tests and order them when we want compared to what the doctors will order, because they have to follow the insurance company rules, and they often won't cover something as simple and important as a vitamin D test.

I like this idea. How do you decide what metrics you want to track? I read the book Metabolical and there are several metrics mentioned in that book that I’m quite sure we’ve never had measured.

 

[2026orBust]

Simply unclogging arteries is easy to do.

Can you eloborate on this? Other than medical procedures that are really more of a way to ease the symptoms of clogged arteries (as opposed to actually unclogging them), I haven't heard of anything else that can be done that has been 100% proven to unclog arteries, let alone something easy once they are already at the point of being clogged.

 

[Scuba]

Scuba gotta comment on the nonfat sugar free yogurt it's like eating air with no nutrition whatsoever.. try hunting around for a Greek type yogurt without added sugars. Real yogurt is full of good things. Even cardiac patients can eat it.as for fat,should you drink Wesson oil no but fat in not the evil they make it out to be.

Dannon Light & Fit Greek yogurt has 12g of protein, no added sugar and around 6g total sugar. 80 calories per serving with no saturated fat. Keep in mind this is typically a dessert for us, not breakfast. For breakfast, I prefer the Trader Joe’s plain nonfat Greek yogurt with some fresh fruit mixed in. I know everyone has different preferences but just because a yogurt is nonfat or has no added sugar doesn’t mean it doesn’t provide any nutritional value.

 

[Accidental Retiree]

Fage Total 2% is my favorite. A smidge of fat and sugar, and a ton of protein. It's also a great basis for making overnight oats, or for adding in extra protein powder, + bananas or nuts or berries. You can make an excellent healthy breakfast that way. And you can mix up a whole tub and have a few days of breakfast ready in advance.

My recent favorite is Costco’s no-fat organic Greek. Its texture and flavor is even better, to me, than Fage 2%. I think it’s really close to Fage 5%.

 

[2026orBust]

If you’re on a cardiac diet and have ideas, please let me know. I’m not sure whether low sugar/carbs should take precedence or I should have him eat more carbs but keep the fat low. Or I really need to keep it all low and he just needs to eat more of everything so the ratios stay in balance.

After getting 3 coronary stents, I've been following sort of a combination of the Mediterranean and Dash diets. So far it's been 4 years now and I haven't had to go back for any further procedures and my numbers (ie cholesterol, blood pressure, etc) look great.

Get in the habit of reading nutrional labels and try to avoid things with excess saturated fat, sodium, and added sugars. Mainly, stick to whole, unprocessed foods as much as possible. Two servings of fatty fish such as salmon or tuna each week are important for heart health. Beans, nuts, tofu, chicken, non- or low-fat plain Greek yogurt, are other great sources of healthy protein. Whole grains like oats, brown rice, barley, whole grain bread are good, and most of all, lots, and lots of vegetables and a serving or two of fruit each day.

As much as possible, avoiding things like butter, soda, candy, ice cream, alcohol, excess salt and added sugars, and red meat really helps.

One of my favorite go-to breakfasts is non-fat Greek yogurt with frozen berries, oats, and a small handful of walnuts. Served with a glass of V8 it's a healthy nutritional powerhouse that is satisfying for many hours.

Dinner is usually something like a big green salad with beans in it and vinegar and olive oil dressing, a slice of unbuttered whole grain bread, and a glass of non-fat milk. Sometimes I'll have chicken with it instead of beans.

Talking with the cardiac rehab nutritionist is a great idea. Your husband is so fortunate to have such a supportive spouse as yourself. Your love and support as he navigates this lifestyle change will make a big difference and will be crucial to his healing and successfully making healthy changes.

 

[ivinsfan]

Dannon Light & Fit Greek yogurt has 12g of protein, no added sugar and around 6g total sugar. 80 calories per serving with no saturated fat. Keep in mind this is typically a dessert for us, not breakfast. For breakfast, I prefer the Trader Joe’s plain nonfat Greek yogurt with some fresh fruit mixed in. I know everyone has different preferences but just because a yogurt is nonfat or has no added sugar doesn’t mean it doesn’t provide any nutritional value.

You made me curious so I looked at a label you would need to eat an entire cup to get that protein and it's JMO but mixing a healthy like yogurt with artificial sweetener is a huge negative IMO. I noticed that the first 3 ingredients are non fat milk,WATER, and fructose . You also mentioned you were having trouble getting enough calories into your hubby. Those were my basic points about the non fat sugar free yogurt. I'm sorry if I offended you I didn't mean to. I've got a carton of GG yogurt in front of me right now.

 

[RAE]

It is always shocking to me to see how far out of touch the medical establishment is in terms of dietary advice. The low fat craze that started somewhere in the 60-ies or so was thoroughly scientifically debunked by the end of the millennium, but even 20 years later many health professionals still teach and preach the nonsense. I’m a big believer in personalized diets. We all have our own genetics and out own metabolisms. Some of us can handle certain marconeutrients better/differently than others. Some can eat more carbs, some more fat, some more proteins. Accordingly, there is not ONE perfect diet for everyone. That said, certain truths are pretty clear. Excess carbohydrates cause/worsen cardiovascular issues. So, for someone with DEMONSTRATED heart disease, keeping carbohydrates low is essential. Otherwise, those precious flour grafts your DH just received will be clogged again in a short time.
Now, if you accept that, then how do you get enough calories to survive? Well, you can increase protein to some extent but you will HAVE to increase fat intake. Even most of the low-fat gurus can agree that certain fats can be and ARE healthy (olive oil, avocados, etc). If the physicians managed to (needlessly) scare you away from more common fats such as butter, meats, diary) then at least swamp your DHs food with as much olive oil and avocados as you can. He needs the fat in order to survive.

Again, for those who are not in specific carbohydrate sensitive health categories (diabetics, obesity, cardiovascular disease, etc), and are blessed with genetics that can handle tons of carbohydrates: have at it and enjoy! However, for the rest of us, it is: limit those carbs and don’t be scared of the (good) fats.

I agree with Euro. The advice you have been given to reduce intake of fats is nonsense, and completely out-of-date with the information that has

been available for at least the last 20 years. The only fats you want to reduce (actually......eliminate) are the industrial seed oil fats - things like soybean oil, corn oil, canola oil, safflower oil, etc (the oils sold in big jugs). Those oils will kill you, and certainly would not be good for someone with existing heart disease. Get all of those things out of your house asap, but there is no need to limit consumption of the healthy fats, as Euro says. The other thing he really needs to cut back on are things made from processed carbs........anything made from flour, including bread, pasta, cookies, crackers, doughnuts, etc, etc.. In general, stick with nutrient-dense whole/real foods..........vegetables of all kinds, meat (grass-fed is best), eggs, fish, etc., plus the healthy fats mentioned above. If it is sold in a box or bag with a long list of ingredients on the side, I would avoid it.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I like this idea. How do you decide what metrics you want to track? I read the book Metabolical and there are several metrics mentioned in that book that I’m quite sure we’ve never had measured.

You could see a functional medicine doctor or start by taking a look at ultalabs. They have a wide variety of heart health panels. I have a book by Dale Breseden for Alzheimer's prevention testing that includes his protocol of functional medicine tests and have been using that as a basic template in our family for good health in general. (Summary of tests here - https://wiki.apoe4.info/wiki/Bredesen_Protocol)

TMAO seems to be important for heart health - "According to a news article published June 11 in JAMA, three recent analyses have linked high blood levels of TMAO with a higher risk for both cardiovascular disease and early death from any cause. In one of those studies, researchers found that people with higher levels of TMAO in their blood may have more than twice the risk of heart attack, stroke, or other serious cardiovascular problems, compared with people who have lower levels. https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/red-meat-tmao-and-your-heart.

And also magnesium: "Biochemical interactions of magnesium in cardiovascular diseases - In recent studies of hospitalised patients, 42% were shown to be hypomagnesaemic. However, physicians request magnesium testing in only 7% of these patients. In a study conducted among patients in the intensive cardiac care unit, 53% of patients had mononuclear cell magnesium content below the lowest normal control. https://openheart.bmj.com/content/5/2/e000775

Nutrition in general - "Dietary micronutrient deficiency is common in adults with heart failure (HF), with >20% having low intake of vitamin A, calcium, magnesium, selenium, and iodine and up to 75% having low intake of vitamin D. - https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/JAHA.118.010447#:

Uric acid and CVD - Uric Acid and Cardiovascular Disease: An Update - PMC (nih.gov)

Patients can't order tests from the Rupa site directly, but they do have some good articles on functional medicine tests - https://www.rupahealth.com/post/the-5-most-commonly-ordered-functional-medicine-lab-tests#:


ETA: CRP - "CRP outperforms LDL cholesterol as a predictor of cardiovascular risk. In addition, the authors found that the two tests identify different high-risk groups, so using both is better than relying on either alone.- https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/c-reactive-protein-test-to-screen-for-heart-disease

 

[ivinsfan]

Scuba doesn't say and we don't need to know but if hubby had the bypass and came out with no damage from his heart attack, does he really have heart disease? That's the question isn't it. That's what happened to my brother15 years ago at age 52. He's fine. Now my DH ended up with AFib from his leaking heart valve and they found a genetic issue, so yes he has cardio issues or "disease" as they like to call it.



Could they Scuba's DH and my bro, have another stent or bypass type issue maybe but it won't be caused by eating a few hamburgers even though that's what they want you to think!

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Scuba doesn't say and we don't need to know but if hubby had the bypass and came out with no damage from his heart attack, does he really have heart disease? That's the question isn't it. That's what happened to my brother15 years ago at age 52. He's fine. Now my DH ended up with AFib from his leaking heart valve and they found a genetic issue, so yes he has cardio issues or "disease" as they like to call it.



Could they Scuba's DH and my bro, have another stent or bypass type issue maybe but it won't be caused by eating a few hamburgers even though that's what they want you to think!

I don't have an answer to your question, but you might find this link of interest on diet and heart disease risk factors - TMAO Testing: A New Way To Assess Heart Attack And Stroke Risk - Cleveland HeartLab, Inc.

 

[ivinsfan]

I don't have an answer to your question, but you might find this link of interest on diet and heart disease risk factors - TMAO Testing: A New Way To Assess Heart Attack And Stroke Risk - Cleveland HeartLab, Inc.

Interesting and they talk about the importance of gut health then talk smack about yogurt which has tremendous gut health benefits. And the party line continues to be red meat, eggs and dairy in it's natural state (full fat) are still the bad boys.


Except now they say "evidence suggests"...

 

[aja8888]

Interesting and they talk about the importance of gut health then talk smack about yogurt which has tremendous gut health benefits. And the party line continues to be red meat, eggs and dairy in it's natural state (full fat) are still the bad boys.


Except now they say "evidence suggests"...

Evidence suggests doesn't mean it's the answer, only a guess on the person interpreting the "so called" evidence.

 

[ivinsfan]

Evidence suggests doesn't mean it's the answer, only a guess on the person interpreting the "so called" evidence.

Bingo...

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Interesting and they talk about the importance of gut health then talk smack about yogurt which has tremendous gut health benefits. And the party line continues to be red meat, eggs and dairy in it's natural state (full fat) are still the bad boys.


Except now they say "evidence suggests"...

The article doesn't say every one needs to avoid red meat, just people with high TMAO levels, "These are very exciting discoveries that help solve the mystery of why eating red meat and full-fat dairy products contribute to inflammation and development of arterial disease of in certain patients" and "Research suggests that subjects with high TMAO should consider switching to a heart-healthy Mediterranean or plant-based diet, since adherence to the Mediterranean diet has been shown to reduce TMAO levels."


I doubt there is one size fits all diet. A couple of my relatives seem to be able to eat a fair amount of red meat and saturated fats and still get low inflammation scores. There does, however, seems to be pretty solid evidence that the above biomarkers are correlated, and in some cases predictive, of heart disease and strokes, so what we are doing in my family is just trying to eat the kind of diets we each need to get our biomarkers in good ranges. YMMV.

 

[Dash man]

I doubt there is one size fits all diet.

That’s for certain. If I listened to my doctors on what I can and can’t eat, I’d starve! I think I’d only be able to eat blueberries and brussels sprouts!

 

[mpeirce]

After my DF had a heart valve replaced, his was visited by a dietitian who worked with that surgeon. She and the surgeon were promoting a low carb/high fat diet (basically keto) for his heart patients. I was there and had a great talk with the dietitian about new approaches to defining what heart healthy really was.

Sadly, once DF was done with the surgeon he switched to another dietitian who basically only knew the older approach - low fat, etc.

DF got pretty confused and reverted back to just eating like he always had. Oh well.

 

[braumeister]

DF got pretty confused and reverted back to just eating like he always had. Oh well.

That's our dilemma these days. Everyone you talk to has their own idea about what's the healthy way to eat, and they are all absolutely convinced that they are right.

Not really any different from discussing religions, and equally likely to result in confusion about what to do.

As the old saying goes, "You pays your money and you takes your chances."

 

[Chuckanut]

Dr. Lustig's books which have helped me a lot, pretty treat the fat that occurs naturally in real food as OK. Just don't grab a handful of coconut oil, mix it with factory made protein powder and think it's OK to eat this fat bomb. Ugh.

Oh, for those of you who are thinking of introducing plant based meats because they may be healthy ask yourself this question. Do any of these new fake meats actually contain anything you could identify as a plant? I'll take a black bean burger made with beans, onions, spices, egg, and a bit of flour to one of those factory made fake burgers any day. A bit of relish and mustard and they are delicious.

 

[aja8888]

Dr. Lustig's books which have helped me a lot, pretty treat the fat that occurs naturally in real food as OK. Just don't grab a handful of coconut oil, mix it with factory made protein powder and think it's OK to eat this fat bomb. Ugh.

Oh, for those of you who are thinking of introducing plant based meats because they may be healthy ask yourself this question. Do any of these new fake meats actually contain anything you could identify as a plant? I'll take a black bean burger made with beans, onions, spices, egg, and a bit of flour to one of those factory made fake burgers any day. A bit of relish and mustard and they are delicious.

The fake meats I looked at had peas in the mix with the chemicals.

 

[Chuckanut]

The fake meats I looked at had peas in the mix with the chemicals.

Peas or extracted pea protein isolate? The few I have looked at have the isolate, not the entire pea.

We can each choose to eat as we wish, I merely point out that plant based meats far more processed than, for example, the black bean burger I make from scratch, where you can see the beans, and onions in them, and even some of the spices. Granted, the egg and flour are not easy to see, but I assure you the entire wheat kernel and a whole real egg are used. You can skip the egg of your are a Vegan. The mixture will be a bit harder to keep together when you flip it.

 

[Aerides]

Oh, for those of you who are thinking of introducing plant based meats because they may be healthy ask yourself this question. Do any of these new fake meats actually contain anything you could identify as a plant? I'll take a black bean burger made with beans, onions, spices, egg, and a bit of flour to one of those factory made fake burgers any day. A bit of relish and mustard and they are delicious.

If you mean Impossible and Beyond? Yeah I've read those labels, and aside from not having animal products they don't qualify as remotely healthy IMO.

 

[RobbieB]

I'll just whip a Portabella cap on the barbee and stick it onna bun.

 

[audreyh1]

If you mean Impossible and Beyond? Yeah I've read those labels, and aside from not having animal products they don't qualify as remotely healthy IMO.

Exactly! Horrible ultra-processed stuff.

 

[ivinsfan]

The article doesn't say every one needs to avoid red meat, just people with high TMAO levels, "These are very exciting discoveries that help solve the mystery of why eating red meat and full-fat dairy products contribute to inflammation and development of arterial disease of in certain patients" and "Research suggests that subjects with high TMAO should consider switching to a heart-healthy Mediterranean or plant-based diet, since adherence to the Mediterranean diet has been shown to reduce TMAO levels."


I doubt there is one size fits all diet. A couple of my relatives seem to be able to eat a fair amount of red meat and saturated fats and still get low inflammation scores. There does, however, seems to be pretty solid evidence that the above biomarkers are correlated, and in some cases predictive, of heart disease and strokes, so what we are doing in my family is just trying to eat the kind of diets we each need to get our biomarkers in good ranges. YMMV.

I did read the article, including the part you bolded for me. The issue is just about all cardio docs and nutritionists will say one size fits all on the no fat or red meat idea. Anybody who doesn't is considered an outlier or a dipwit and is made fun of.