Eliminating Meat, Substituting Fish & Seafood

[Helen]

I'm about to hit my 31st anniversary of not eating meat. The first 6 years of vegetarianism I didn't eat seafood. Then I moved to Boston from the Midwest and thought I'd give it a try as I was worried about my lack of protein.

So I eat a lot of veggies and fruit and seafood when I go out to eat (I don't like to see raw fish). For some reason my cholesterol is really high - total cholesterol = 297. Fortunately my HDL is 85.

 

[windsurf]

There are lots of reasons to avoid feed-lot beef (versus range fed or pastured) including ehtics and avoidance of hormones and antibiotics. But, by now, it should start filtering to the popular press that the primary culprit is not "eating cholesterol" and fat. It's the insulin response (and consequent laying on of fat on and within your body which results in a cascade of harmful metabolic effects) to refined carbs: corn syrup, high fructose additives, bread, pastry, sugary cereals, pasta.

 

[ERD50]

I still eat chocolate and the occassional dessert. After all you have to have some 'treats' to reward yourself for easing off the artery clogging stuff.
... oh ... and red wine, beer and alcohol is STILL good for you ... RIGHT?

beer, red wine - good. And if I see a study that they are not, I assure I will find the bias in that study

So is chocolate if you get the good stuff - dark, not some sugared up flavored junk. Chocolate makes a great everyday 'treat' - it tastes wonderful and it is good for you (in moderation, like most other good thngs). Esp the stuff with the cocoa nibs or nuts in it - you get your fiber, too.

-ERD50

 

[dex]

Eating fish does have its downside -
Crustations - high in cholorestoal
Some fish - high in mercury should not be eaten too often
Huge fishing fleets depleats fish populations
Huge drift nets that are discarded/lost by fishing boats ensnare and kill fish and other large marine animals.

 

[dlhanson]

We haven't eaten meat (of any kind including fish or poultry) or dairy or eggs for 12 years. Except I tried some eggs and chicken once about a year ago when I was invited to eat with our oldest son's in-laws. It made me feel very sick and I am not going to do that again.

We juice broccoli and carrots, and eat lots of brown rice and beans. When we go out, we eat Chinese vegetarian (DW is Chinese).

We started doing this because our youngest son had severe intestinal problems. Doctors at Texas Children's in Houston couldn't cure him but a radical change in diet did.

My blood pressure was about 145/90 before we changed (this high all the way back to age 19 when the Army wouldn't allow me to enlist due to high blood pressure). Now at age 57, BP is 110/60 and total cholesterol is 130 (triglicerides are well below 100 when they used to be about 400).

 

[happy2bretired]

We haven't eaten meat (of any kind including fish or poultry) or dairy or eggs for 12 years. Except I tried some eggs and chicken once about a year ago when I was invited to eat with our oldest son's in-laws. It made me feel very sick and I am not going to do that again.

We juice broccoli and carrots, and eat lots of brown rice and beans. When we go out, we eat Chinese vegetarian (DW is Chinese).

You sound like my daughter since she is a vegan. My daughter and I have been watching a program on BBC, You are What You Eat with Dr. Gillian McKeith. We have really been eating lots of fresh fruits and veggies. My daughter bought me a juicer for my birthday. Carrot juice is pretty good.

 

[bright eyed]

great pocket guide, by region on which fish are safer/better to eat for a variety of reasons...Monterey Bay Aquarium: Download a Regional Seafood Watch Card

 

[WM]

Another great reference, very comprehensive - What to Eat, by Marion Nestle. She is a well-known nutritionist (doesn't advocate any particular diet) and this book is a wealth of information about all kinds of food issues - mercury in fish, benefits or not of organic, research on artificial sweeteners, you name it.

Being a nutritionist she of course leans away from artificial/highly processed food, but otherwise is of the "everything in moderation" camp. Not anti-vegetarian or anti-vegan, but not pro- either.

 

[windsurf]

My long term expereience with eating vegitarian nearly turned me into full blown type 2 diabetic: way too much reliance on pasta, pizza, flour tortillas, pancakes, bagels . . . you get the picture. Protein from soy is good protein but alas, soy has estrogen-like compounds . . . not good for hormonal issues; especially if you are a 50+ male trying to maintain muscle mass. I respect concern about animal cruelty and try to buy my meat products from ethical sources and eschew feed lot products for range fed (proper ratio of omega 3's to 6's; if you don't know what that means, you should learn b/c otherwise you are in the dark on fats-which are MANDATORY for good health). I estimate that the popular press is still a year or two away from reporting the research recogntion that the true issue re heart disease (for most people) is not "fat" (other than trans fats) but rather refined carbs.

 

[bssc]

We started doing this because our youngest son had severe intestinal problems. Doctors at Texas Children's in Houston couldn't cure him but a radical change in diet did.

Interesting. I used to work there years ago.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

Are you trying to convert everyone to vegetarianism here?

me? trying to convert? you have no idea just how lazy i am, do you?

in fact, in today's world of overpopulation, limited resources and wildlife management, i suppose i should be glad that someone is culling the herds. i assume you are only eating the sick, weak and old.

meanwhile. the associate press reports that the "use of cholesterol and blood pressure medicines by young adults appears to be rising rapidly" More young adults on cholesterol drugs - Yahoo! News.

Dr. Howard Weintraub, the heart disease prevention expert at the American College of Cardiology, said he's "thrilled" by the dramatic increase, which he says is tied to requests from patients with "a brand new sense of urgency" and referrals from other doctors to his private practice.

ya'all don't require conversion; you need an exorcism. but don't look towards me for that. sorry but i can't be bothered.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

Carrot juice is pretty good.

try some parsley with that. (real men don't eat parsley. we juice it with carrots.)

another odd but tasty combo is apple & celery.

 

[dlhanson]

My long term expereience with eating vegitarian nearly turned me into full blown type 2 diabetic: way too much reliance on pasta, pizza, flour tortillas, pancakes, bagels . . . you get the picture. Protein from soy is good protein but alas, soy has estrogen-like compounds . . . not good for hormonal issues;.

1. Refined carbs are not good for you, I agree. That is why we eat whole grains primarily brown rice.
2. There is much disagreement over soy - my wife eats soy and I don't but that is primarily because she is underweight and I am not.
3. My favorite doctor concerning health information is Dr. McDougall at drmcdougall.com. I have read or viewed most of his books and his dvd's. It is his view and mine that any meat or dairy in the diet is not good.

 

[Sarah in SC]

I'm with Windsurf, the key is eating humanely and within reasonable limits for your health. We eat pastured pork or beef maybe once a week. The rest of the time it is chicken or beans for protein and lots of (mostly) locally grown vegetables and fruit. The Omnivore's Dilemma was a real eye opener for us and our diet now consists mostly of stuff that I can pronounce, like beer! But I couldn't be totally vegetarian, I like variety too much.
Sarah

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

2. There is much disagreement over soy.

i deal with this by eating tofu and edamame but my protein shakes are made with whey instead of soy.

 

[simple girl]

A few years ago we tried the whole grain, seafood diet espoused by Dr. Gabe Mirkin (Dr. Gabe Mirkin on Heath, Fitness and Nutrition). We stayed on it several months, and lost quite a bit of weight. Unfortunately, we just couldn't maintain the strictness of the diet. However, we have kept the fundamentals and still eat mostly whole grain, non-processed foods and low-fat meals. We just had to have some meats and dairy - have chicken mostly (along with fish), and red meat only occasionally (once or twice a month).

 

[ziggy29]

A few years ago we tried the whole grain, seafood diet espoused by Dr. Gabe Mirkin (Dr. Gabe Mirkin on Heath, Fitness and Nutrition). We stayed on it several months, and lost quite a bit of weight. Unfortunately, we just couldn't maintain the strictness of the diet. However, we have kept the fundamentals and still eat mostly whole grain, non-processed foods and low-fat meals. We just had to have some meats and dairy - have chicken mostly (along with fish), and red meat only occasionally (once or twice a month).

That's the problem with strict, complex diets -- even if they work, they're so much of a hassle to stick with that people stop following them. A successful "diet" has to be simple enough to integrate as part of a long-term lifestyle change if it's going to be long-term successful. It should be simple enough that after a few months on it, you barely even find yourself thinking about it and still make the "right" choices anyway because it's become habit.

Basically, the best diets allow you to break "old" habits and replace them with better ones...at which point it's no longer strictly a "diet" but simply a long-term change in eating habits.

 

[happy2bretired]

Lazy...will try your juice recommendations. I love parsley, the taste is sooo fresh and clean. Too bad most people just use it for garnish - what a waste.

I don't like the word "diet" since it implies that one wants to lose weight. Eating healthy is just a means of eating healthly...it's a every day thing that you just do. It's not complicated. A person just needs to think about what they buy at the grocery store. Fill your cart with fresh fruit and veggies (& meat if so inclined) and leave the processed stuff on the shelves.

 

[windsurf]

lazy good4nuthin'bum (he said it, not me) said:
meanwhile. the associate press reports that the "use of cholesterol and blood pressure medicines by young adults appears to be rising rapidly" More young adults on cholesterol drugs - Yahoo! News.

You have to consider whether the "use" of these drugs is b/c there is actually an issue with "cholesterol" or whether it is actually an issue with eating too much refined crap leading to obesity and insulin resistance. The problem isn't "cholesterol" but rather the food INDUSTRY and the pharmaceutical INDUSTRY.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

You have to consider whether the "use" of these drugs is b/c there is actually an issue with "cholesterol" or whether it is actually an issue with eating too much refined crap leading to obesity and insulin resistance. The problem isn't "cholesterol" but rather the food INDUSTRY and the pharmaceutical INDUSTRY.

the following comment is neither directed to the person who i just quoted nor meant as a thread jack but happened upon my mind and seemed just too convenient & timely an example: how interesting that when i pointed out historical and sociological context of how gays have been treated--which might have helped lead to the current behavior of some--that my context would be taken out of context and used against me elsewhere, yet no one makes notice that this writer would emphasize the placing of blame on industry for creating a problem rather than pointing at people for being responsible for what they put in their mouths at the table.

I respect concern about animal cruelty and try to buy my meat products from ethical sources and eschew feed lot products for range fed (proper ratio of omega 3's to 6's; if you don't know what that means, you should learn b/c otherwise you are in the dark on fats-which are MANDATORY for good health).

is it the fat from meat which is mandatory or could someone substitute say seeds, nuts, berries, dairy, cereal, whole grains, vegetable oil, fish, etc?

YouTube - john west salmon ad

 

[Martha]

Lunch right now is mung beans with sweet potato. Greg took about 20 minutes to prepare the whole thing. Tasty and healthy.

 

[windsurf]

the following comment is neither directed to the person who i just quoted nor meant as a thread jack but happened upon my mind and seemed just too convenient & timely an example: how interesting that when i pointed out historical and sociological context of how gays have been treated--which might have helped lead to the current behavior of some--that my context would be taken out of context and used against me elsewhere, yet no one makes notice that this writer would emphasize the placing of blame on industry for creating a problem rather than pointing at people for being responsible for what they put in their mouths at the table.


Huh??

 

[windsurf]

lazygood4nothinbum asked:

Is it the fat from meat which is mandatory or could someone substitute say seeds, nuts, berries, dairy, cereal, whole grains, vegetable oil, fish, etc?

Fat from animal sources in not mandatory. It is my opinion that the proper balance of fats is important to good long term health. The standard American diet is skewed grossly toward too much omega 6. Fats from grains have an abundance of omega 6 fatty acids. So do animals fed on grain (such as is the case with factory farmed chickens, fish and fedd lot cattle and pigs. Free ranging animals eating green plant sources have a fat profile closer to wild salmon–a more favorable abundance of omega 3's relative to 6's. Again it is the ratio. Flax is a source of omega 3 fatty acids. Olive oil, walnuts, almonds and avocadoes have a beneficial balance of fats. It is not a simple issue to explain in a paragraph but it is easy to find sources on the internet that discuss this.

 

[Khan]

You'll have to pry the rare steak from my cold dead hands.

That said, I have been eating less meat and more fruits and vegetables and almost nothing from the interior grocery aisles. I also go for local and/or pastured critters.

 

[Maurice]

Eek! That is definitely a regional thing. Fish is NOWHERE near that expensive here. I can buy $5-$7 worth of fish and only eat half of it for dinner, saving the other half for the next night. I do focus on the less expensive varieties, but for example the salmon that I bought on Friday was about 8-10 oz for somewhere in that price range and will last me two nights.

Some of the difference is probably regional and some might be the fish I'm buying. For example, here in NYC farmed salmon (which is dyed pink by the way) is only $8.99 a pound, but the wild stuff is $19-20 per pound. There are cheaper options, like shrimp and talapia. Sea Bass, Halibut, Wild Salmon are all 19-20 a pound here.