Have you lowered cholesterol without statins?

[RAchip]

I think that before anyone takes any cholesterol medication you should have a scan to see if how much plaque you have. I have very low cholesterol (total cholesterol of 130) but I have plaque.

[Elbata]

What I'm curious about, but I can't find it on the internet: What is the LDL and cholesterol level of a newborn baby? And is it just us humans in the developed world that have HDL/cholesterol gains, or do other primates have the same experience?

[Lsbcal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teacher Terry Statins can also damage your memory. I have known more then one person with that issue. ....

Without a control group type study, how can you be sure? Memory issues occur in people often.

[Lsbcal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAchip I think that before anyone takes any cholesterol medication you should have a scan to see if how much plaque you have. I have very low cholesterol (total cholesterol of 130) but I have plaque.

That is what I was saying above. I am afraid this thread is more about confirmation then looking for insight.

[travelover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lsbcal Without a control group type study, how can you be sure? Memory issues occur in people often.

I only have a sample size of one, but I found that the statin I was taking was making me fuzzy headed. It took a couple of weeks after I quit to clear my head.

[Lsbcal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by travelover I only have a sample size of one, but I found that the statin I was taking was making me fuzzy headed. It took a couple of weeks after I quit to clear my head.

I think this is one of the side effects listed as possible. Perhaps you are in a small group that cannot tolerate the statin and dose you took. We know that most drugs have side effects for some body types.

[ikubak]

As many on here have stated, eat less meat and exercise more. I had a similar occurrence when I had my cholesterol checked, which I do yearly. The Dr. said my cholesterol was inching up and wanted to know if I would be interested in statins. I said no, (I don't use any drugs other than the occasional aspirin or NSAID) I'll see what I can do by changing my diet. DW and I went vegan for several months and have settled on what we call a Mediterranean diet heavy on the grains and veggies. We eat meat occasionally with fish being the most common meat we eat. We also start the day with oatmeal almost every day. So the next time I had my cholesterol checked, the Dr. noted the cholesterol was much better. No need to consider statins. Dr. asked what changed and I said I changed my diet....I eat more pizza and drink more beer now.

[Crewer]

Like so many things this is complicated. I was vegetarian for 2 years and LDL kept going up. I went vegan for a few months and it didn't budge. I started taking a statin and it plummeted (HDL stayed about the same). I felt achy so stopped and total cholesterol went back up. Started a different one and back down and I think not so many aches as a side effect. i don't notice memory loss (unlike DH who does notice his memory loss from a different source).

One reason I opt for the statin is that there is definitely heart disease in my family (grandfather died of heart attack while being discharged from the hospital for something else - I think times have changed and this wouldn't happen today and my father had triple bypass surgery after badly failing a stress test). I'm older than my father was when he had heart surgery and I pass a stress test. Also I think I'm not at risk for diabetes - because of weight and healthier eating than most Americans - lowish carb, almost vegan, except I eat fish. Also there is no diabetes in my family.

I think the whole thing is more complicated because we're going for 100-year life expectancy not the 74 years of my grandfather or 89 years of my father.

[Chuckanut]

The statin/cholesterol/diet threads remind me of the 'What age to take SS threads'. Interesting, informative and sometimes entertaining to read. No real conclusions since we are all so different.

FWIW, I'll toss my 2¢ in. I stopped taking a statin years ago and tried a lower-carb diet. My total Cholesterol went up about 35 points from 215 to 250! But, my HDL was up 20 points and my Triglycerides went down 50%. My HDL/Trig ratio plummeted to 1.1, far under the 3.5 maximum amount I have read about. According to sources I have read this ratio is far better at predicting CVD than total cholesterol.

Hey, if medicine was easy, an M.D. would be just another four year degree and doctors would make the same as plumbers and electricians.

https://www.docsopinion.com/2014/07/...ide-hdl-ratio/

Quote:

High numbers of small, dense LDL particles are associated with increased risk for coronary heart disease in prospective epidemiologic studies. Subjects with small, dense particles (phenotype B) are at higher risk than those with larger, more buoyant LDL particles (phenotype A). Interestingly, it has been found that the TG/HDL-C ratio can predict particle size. One study found that 79% of individuals with a ratio above 3.8 had a preponderance of small dense LDL particles, whereas 81% of those with a ratio below 3.8 had a preponderance of large buoyant particles.

Of course, one should read the entire article.

[RAE]

By the way, the LDL number you get when they do your blood test is not all that useful, because it does not distinguish between different LDL particle sizes. This is important. The small, dense LDL particles are dangerous since they contribute to plaque formation in the arterial wall. Ideally, one would want their results to show mostly large, buoyant LDL particles, which do not typically cross the arterial wall, so do not cause plaque formation. Small, dense particles are also closely associated with insulin resistance and an increased risk of developing type 2 diabetes.

So, for those worried about CVD, you might want to ask your doctor to order the advanced LDL test, so you can determine the breakdown of LDL particle sizes. It's not an expensive test, but very few doctors will routinely order it, unless you as for it. Here is one link that describes the test (this test actually gives more information than just particle sizes):

NMR LipoProfile | Blood Test | Life Extension

[Yarnstormer]

Have any of you had a spike in ldl when you were losing weight? I’ve been dieting - lost 12 lbs and my ldl was quite increased. I’ve read that weight loss can temporarily raise ldl wonder if that is true.

[Helen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAE So, for those worried about CVD, you might want to ask your doctor to order the advanced LDL test, so you can determine the breakdown of LDL particle sizes. It's not an expensive test, but very few doctors will routinely order it, unless you as for it. Here is one link that describes the test (this test actually gives more information than just particle sizes): NMR LipoProfile | Blood Test | Life Extension

My doctor continually tried to get me to take statins. I finally asked her what particle size my LDL was and she blushed when she said she didn't know. She ordered the test and I have mostly large particles.

I was kind of bummed she would recommend statins before ordering the test.

[RAE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helen My doctor continually tried to get me to take statins. I finally asked her what particle size my LDL was and she blushed when she said she didn't know. She ordered the test and I have mostly large particles. I was kind of bummed she would recommend statins before ordering the test.

Unfortunately, this is all too common. My doctor did the same thing.

[mamadogmamacat]

At the risk of being snarked yet again for expressing gratitude, here goes. Thanks to the recent posters especially as your comments give me more items to discuss with my Dr should she ever try to push statins again. I do hope my new diet and the wgt I am losing will keep my numbers down anyway, but the info is useful too of course. Hope it is for others as well. Still wish i knew more before I accepted statins for those six weeks that changed my life for the worse. better late than never of course.

[Amethyst]

Thank you to those who've pointed up the large vs. small LDL particles issue, as my LDL is stubbornly high, although HDL is also high. Particle size is not on the standard "lipid panel" that I get every year.

I'll mention it at my yearly physical next summer.

[Free_at_49]

Do a calcium score before agreeing to take statins. My score was 0 (zero) so there's no need for drugs even if my cholesterol is high. Cholesterol by itself is not a disease, 260 may be normal & harmless for you.

[I was misinformed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAE By the way, the LDL number you get when they do your blood test is not all that useful, because it does not distinguish between different LDL particle sizes. This is important. The small, dense LDL particles are dangerous since they contribute to plaque formation in the arterial wall. Ideally, one would want their results to show mostly large, buoyant LDL particles, which do not typically cross the arterial wall, so do not cause plaque formation. Small, dense particles are also closely associated with insulin resistance and an increased risk of developing type 2 diabetes. So, for those worried about CVD, you might want to ask your doctor to order the advanced LDL test, so you can determine the breakdown of LDL particle sizes. It's not an expensive test, but very few doctors will routinely order it, unless you as for it. Here is one link that describes the test (this test actually gives more information than just particle sizes): NMR LipoProfile | Blood Test | Life Extension

A recent article in Science reviews this issue

Is it time to retire cholesterol tests? | Science | AAAS

The discussion of how the research results can be incorporated
into clinical practice by “the poor frontline doctor” is a bit surprising,
with at least one expert expressing concern about burdening docs
with “too much information”.

[harley]

That was an interesting article, although non-conclusive. It did make good points about how little cholesterol numbers seem to have to do with actual heart disease instances.

One interesting quote I saw was

Quote:

Although cholesterol-lowering statins are cheap, Sniderman notes that newer drugs given when statins aren't enough, such as the PCSK9 inhibitors, can cost tens of thousands of dollars per year.

I remember reading a blog entry from Dr. Malcom Kendrick a year or two ago. He was talking about how statin drugs are going off patent and becoming less of a money maker. He said he would be willing to bet that we'd soon be seeing articles saying that statins aren't really as useful as they've been said to be, and that people really now need to be on the new and expensive PSCK9 Inhibitors. I haven't seen that happening in large scale yet, but I wouldn't be surprised.

It would be nice if the ApoB test would give a better indication of liklihood of heart disease. Stay tuned, I guess.

[plsprius]

Good article, and good to see that science is progressing. In time, diagnosis and treatment will be even better.

Still, the takeaway for me is this quote:

Quote:

Still, even apoB advocates admit that LDL cholesterol's track record is pretty good. About 85% of the time, it provides an accurate indication of a patient's likelihood of developing cardiovascular disease, Ference says. But that means it's wrong 15% of the time, he adds.

[Lsbcal]

In my case the moderately high cholesterol test numbers led to a CT Heart Scan test that was surprising. Without the cholesterol test we wouldn't have had a clue.