heart disease reversal

[Nords]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urchina Go pig hunting with a bounty hunter, Nords. All the bacon you can eat, and you know how it was killed because you did it yourself! Plus, you're saving the environment. That's a win-win for everyone but the pig!

I dunno... I think I hear banjo music...

[windsurf]

At my rehab today, it was "Open Discussion" for the education portion. Not very "educational" as the discussion was dominated by quips and stories of sneaking Oreos and husbands or wives who are getting in the way or nagging. I am about ready to bail. It's several hundred dollars a day (my insurance pays 80% of mine) and I've read tons of studies and abstracts (and several books) since my "event." I do more on my own later in the day in the workout at my local Wellness Center than they program me for at "rehab." On the other hand, the initial assessment (treadmill stress) was important to give me a baseline and the program has this past month given me confidence to exercise at various levels as I am on a monitor the whole time and have developed a sense for what intensity produces what blood pressures and pulse rate.

[Tigger]

New article: "Coronary Artery Calcification Linked to Vitamin D Deficiency"
Coronary Artery Calcification Linked to Vitamin D Deficiency - Renal and Urology News

Most people are deficient. More about vitamin D: Vitamin D Council | Understanding Vitamin D Cholecalciferol

[windsurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by windsurf At my rehab today, it was "Open Discussion" for the education portion. Not very "educational" as the discussion was dominated by quips and stories of sneaking Oreos and husbands or wives who are getting in the way or nagging. I am about ready to bail. It's several hundred dollars a day (my insurance pays 80% of mine) and I've read tons of studies and abstracts (and several books) since my "event." I do more on my own later in the day in the workout at my local Wellness Center than they program me for at "rehab." On the other hand, the initial assessment (treadmill stress) was important to give me a baseline and the program has this past month given me confidence to exercise at various levels as I am on a monitor the whole time and have developed a sense for what intensity produces what blood pressures and pulse rate.

I'll reply to myself here-why not? The cost of the cardiac "rehab" is very high, I think, relative to the actual value. Yet, my insurance company covers it- albeit, with my policy, once my large deductible was covered, I am paying 20 % (and btw, I pay pretty "big" -over 7k just for me- my wife's portion is less, subsidized thorough her teacher retirement program- which is warning of huge shortfalls). I wish the insurance companies were willing to pay for and promote much more preventive intervention than they are now willing to undertake. Most of my "classmates" at rehab have outward signs of metabolic syndrome (direct result of standard American diet) Out of 20, there are three of us who "look" very fit even though we obviously weren't as to cardiac arteries.

[calmloki]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pres .... In a (very small scale) test for BBC television, impotence was cured in 6 men out of 7 who daily ate four raw cloves of “Murado garlic” (a commen type of garlic), probably because it restored the blood circulation in the clogged arteries. For a potent effect the cloves need to be pressed or cut before they’re eaten. The video says they should be "eaten within ten minutes of chopping" and they should be eaten raw. (I suspect they meant “after ten minutes” instead of “within ten minutes”) Source: Truth about food "Is garlic a natural cure for male impotence?" http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/humanbody/tr...onflash.shtml* Arginine supplements have big results, even over a short time period. Men were divided into two groups of 15. One group was given a mere 2.8 grams of oral arginine for two weeks’ time. Six of the men who were given this minimal dose experienced significant improvement in their ability to achieve an erection. None of the men in the placebo group showed any sign of improvement. Source: Zorgniotti, A.W. and Lizza, E.F., “Effect of Large Doses of Nitric Oxide Precursor, L-Arginine, on Erectile Dysfunction,” International Journal of Impotence Research,” 6 (1994) 33-36. Disclaimer: nobody knows nuttin!

Hey, so garlic rods out arteries? Cool, thinks I. So the other morning as I was making coffee I looked over and we had a nice fat garlic clove sitting out. Smacked it with the flat side of a knife blade and peeled the skin, popped it in my mouth and crunched it up real well and swallowed it. HOLY CWAP! Note to self - have something to eat before trying that again. My stomach was rudely shocked awake and protested mightily - thought I was gonna hurl. Unsettled my belly for an hour or more. At 4:30 that afternoon we were in Costco and my gal was claiming that I still had a garlic miasma wafting around me. That night as she tucked into my shoulder she startled back - I was sweating garlic.

Garlic may be good for your arteries and pitching tents, but it's not much good if you can't get someone under the tent with you.

[CoolChange]

Quote:

Originally Posted by calmloki Hey, so garlic rods out arteries? Cool, thinks I. So the other morning as I was making coffee I looked over and we had a nice fat garlic clove sitting out. Smacked it with the flat side of a knife blade and peeled the skin, popped it in my mouth and crunched it up real well and swallowed it. HOLY CWAP! .....

Sounds like my SO's normal cooking. Maybe she's trying to tell me something.

[tmm99]

I used to have some Korean friends who ate a bunch of kimche with tons of raw garlic at every meal. They all ate those nasty tasting mints (not really mints.. they look like tiny little silver beads and they contained some nasty tasking herbs) to kill the smell of garlic in their mouths, but I could smell the garlic from their skin... I didn't have the heart to tell them that though...

I have heard garlic lowers BP. I wonder if there are any stats on this that compares the Korean folks with some other people.

[ls99]

Having had Triglycerides in the 1150 range some years ago, going through all the varieaties od stuff Drs thunk up and most not doing squat, I have been on a self impsed diet of minimizing refined carbohydrates.

Recent Triglycerides are hovering in the 100 to 170 range.

If you are a glutton for reading here is a long list of places discussing cholesterol etc.:Paleolithic Diet Page (Paleo Diet, Caveman Diet, Hunter/Gatherer Diet)

Happy trails.

[windsurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ls99 Recent Triglycerides are hovering in the 100 to 170 range. If you are a glutton for reading here is a long list of places discussing cholesterol etc.:Paleolithic Diet Page (Paleo Diet, Caveman Diet, Hunter/Gatherer Diet) Happy trails.

Also see Arthur Devany's site at http://www.arthurdevany.com/ and Jimmy Moore's at
The Official Website For Jimmy Moore's Livin' La Vida Low-Carb as well as Mark Sisson at Mark's Daily Apple

[oldtrig]

I had a real close friend try to reverse heart disease with diet. He checked himself out of the hospital while they were preparing for open heart surgery. I talked to him after he had been on the diet for about 3 months. He was working out and felt great and said he was well on his way to recovery. The doctor that had told him he needed bypass surgery seen him in the grocery store and asked him was he trying to make him look bad by being in great shape. He told the doc that all he needed was to eat better and exercise. He fell over dead later that year with a heart attack. He was only 55. Looking at him you would have thought he was a picture of health. I miss him, he was a very smart person but not quite smart enough.

[Tigger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by calmloki Garlic may be good for your arteries and pitching tents, but it's not much good if you can't get someone under the tent with you.

Yay, more free time to spend online!

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldtrig He told the doc that all he needed was to eat better and exercise. He fell over dead later that year with a heart attack. He was only 55. Looking at him you would have thought he was a picture of health. I miss him, he was a very smart person but not quite smart enough.

I'm sorry about your friend. Whatever you try, talk to your doc and get regular checkups but also watch how you live.
My dad had advanced atherosclerosis and one day the doctor told him there was nothing they could to do stop it. It was too late for another operation. I will always keep wondering if a healthier lifestyle could have saved him.

[windsurf]

Here are my latest blood lipid numbers. As I have posted before, prior to my left main trunk plaque rupture and consequent bypass x6, I had been "off my guard" b/c of a decade or more of low risk lipid numbers and heavy exercise, but this is a new chapter with new parameters. So here are the latest numbers: total cholesteerol 130, ldl 55, hdl . . . 61. An inverse ldl/hdl ratio! I take Zocor and have adopted a plant based diet. I have read most of the studies and know that one cannot mess around with the statistics re closure of vein grafts. (triglycerides 70).

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

...with a total to HDL chol of 2.13, and a nonHDL chol of 69 - one of the lower readings I have seen in a while.

Nice job.

[tmm99]

I just went back and read your Bypass thread and now going over this thread. What I don't understand is you had to have the bypass despite good LDL/HDL/trig numbers. How could it be?

I wonder how much cholesterol has to do with heart health?

You said you were not eating refined carbs, and were eating whole foods/plant based diet. What do you eat say for breakfast? Lunch? (I imagine you eat some complex carbs like brown rice or you mainly eat veggies and fruit? What about fat? Some avocados?) How are you getting the protein?

Sorry for so many questions.

[windsurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmm99 I just went back and read your Bypass thread and now going over this thread. What I don't understand is you had to have the bypass despite good LDL/HDL/trig numbers. How could it be? Sorry for so many questions.

I'm on my way out for the day and will give you a response later on. I don't mind the questions and surely don't have many answers-just some theories.

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmm99 I just went back and read your Bypass thread and now going over this thread. What I don't understand is you had to have the bypass despite good LDL/HDL/trig numbers. How could it be?

In some studies up to 50% of men admitted with a heart attack have a normal cholesterol. Coronary disease is a complicated one; current knowledge tells us that lipids (chol, HDL, LDL, triglycerides, etc.) play a definite role but do not explain everything. A typical 50 y.o man with normal lipids might have a heart attack risk for the next 5 years of 5%, whereas with bad lipids that risk may be 10%. That's double the risk, but certainly does not paint the whole picture.

Other issues such as genetic susceptibility, persistent stress, chronic inflammation, secondary smoke and pollution and no doubt a zillion unknown variables are at work.

So perfect lipids and lifestyle go a long way to reduce the risk but will never eliminate risk altogether.

[windsurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmm99 I just went back and read your Bypass thread and now going over this thread. What I don't understand is you had to have the bypass despite good LDL/HDL/trig numbers. How could it be? I wonder how much cholesterol has to do with heart health? You said you were not eating refined carbs, and were eating whole foods/plant based diet. What do you eat say for breakfast? Lunch? (I imagine you eat some complex carbs like brown rice or you mainly eat veggies and fruit? What about fat? Some avocados?) How are you getting the protein?

Cholesterol is one of about 17 factors associated with risk. It just happens to be one of the consequent constituents of plaque, carried as it is into arterial cell walls by low density lipoprotein (ldl) which is most dangerous in an oxidized form (creating inflammation). Stats show and Rich made the point, I think, that there is much heart disease found in folks with seemingly "normal" cholesterol levels (b/c it isn't the only risk factor). My concern with cholesterol at this point is that there is research showing that if the body is denied saturated fat through a plant-based diet, ldl readings plummet and the lipid pool in plaques can shrink a bit causing a proportionately larger and very significant increase in arterial flow. I am also hoping that this results in a prevention of the blocking of the vein grafts used for five of the six bypasses in my surgery (one was an internal mammary artery, re-directed from the chest wall to the LAD-widow-maker as it's called. The arterial grafts tend to stay patent much longer than veins used for arteries.)

My present diet is evolving. One of the proponents of cardiac reversing diets (Edellstyn) advises to avoid all fats including oils. Others like Ornish and Fuhrman are a bit more permissive but not much (e.g. Ornish eschews olive oil advising that it is not really cardio-protective per se-just to the extent it replaces saturated fat). Ornish does advise fish oil (which I take). Right now, I am still using a bit of olive oil on a salad and I eat fish once or twice a week. I also make a veggie omlet or fritatta with egg whites once a week. I do eat some avocadoes but not as much as before my surgery. I have been doing my best to avoid most refined carbs for years. I still think that is critically important to keep glucose and insulin in good control (diabetes and pre-diabetes are huge cardiac risk factors). I try to not rely on grains or rice much but will use some whole grain products- e.g. sprouted grain bread and sprouted corn tortillas. I am eating a lot of beans in different forms and discovered the utility of fermented soy in the form of tempeh which is great with sauteed peppers and onions (using spray in my iron skillet rather than a puddle of oil). For breakfast I often eat left-overs or steel cut oats with a handful of blackberries, blueberries or strawberries-no milk. One's taste changes. As long as I have been avoiding refined carbs, something like a Rainier cherry has the sweetness of candy tome and the latest sweet delicacy here in Ohio right now is sweet corn. I eat mine with no salt or butter and, again, it is so sweet that it seems like a dessert. I fill up on veggies prepped in various forms and stay away from things like rice, potatoes and pasta as bulky parts of the diet. There is a pasta (Dreamfields) that is made in a way that prevents absorption of most of the carbs and we do use that a couple of times a month- tastes great. I will say something that may be obvious- many people who adopt what they call a vegetarian diet default to tons of rice, cereal, energy bars, sweet drinks and the like and don't get enough plant-based nutrients and way too many cheap calories. That is a bad diet. Even when not obese, they often have insulin resistance and/or are "skinny-fat." In the spinning class that I did for seven months prior to my MI (I thought that the class proved my cardiac system was in great shape) were a group of serious athletes (triathletes, bike racers). Some of them ate energy bars and drank a lot of sweet energy drinks. They had more fat on them than you would expect because of that, I think.If you haven't guessed, I think those products are a big mistake for everybody. Earlier in life, I used a lot of that stuff while running obsessively and I think that period was probably contributory to my disease- I know I was becoming insulin resistant until I chucked the refined carbs. Of course there were many other dietary indiscretions going back to the teen-age years even. As to protein, that is not a problem when eating a variety of foods during the day. You've probably read about the complimentary aspects of plant protein from variant sources (corn/beans e.g.). I still eat small amounts of lean turkey breast or skinless/boneless chicken breast when my wife wants to have some for dinner, but it is a small amount, infrequent, and I expect that I will eliminate it almost altogether very soon.

My approach is not for everyone-it's for me b/c I am in no position to play roulette with my new plumbing.

[tmm99]

windsurf,

Thank you for such a detailed explanation on your diet. When you said you adopted a plant based diet, I couldn't imagine what your food intake consists of but now I have a much better picture. Still, don't you lose so much weight eating like that? (unless you eat a lot of oatmeal/sprouted bread/sprouted tortillas, but that would negate your whole purpose, so I'm sure you are not doing that.) Without fat and not much protein (except for the egg whites, tempeh and very occasional small amount of turkey and some fish) or fat, do you feel you are losing strength/energy/weight? I was on a modified macrobiotic diet (I ate some fish, but this diet tends to be very low on protein as well as fat) at one point in my life, but I just wasn't getting the strength.

So the main difference between what you are doing now and what you did before your surgery is the amount of animal protein and oil (You said you hadn't been eating refined carbs in years)?

I am from Japan and I hear you about some fruit tasting like candy sweet. I can only eat about 4 cherries at one sitting. I only eat about 1/4 of any kind of medium sized fruit like an apple at one sitting. I eat 1/2 corn on the cob with my meal and that is plenty because the corn nowadays taste too sweet to me. Since you seem to know a lot about diets, you probably know the Japanese don't consume sweet treats as much as the Americans. I tend toward hypoglycemia even with a small amount of sucrose/fructose or even white rice, so I am careful consuming even fruit. Only way to avoid the hypoglycemic reaction seems to be to eat tons of protein and fat with it. That's probably why I am asking you if you feel you are losing strength/energy/weight with your diet.

You mention skinny-fat. If you ever have a chance to go to Japan, go to Onsen (japanese style hotels where they have community baths with hot spring water) one day and see the Japanese people there. I have been living in the US for 25+ years and I guess I forgot. I went to Onsen with my mom and I was shocked to see young Japanese people being, I guess, skinny fat. They were very very thin, but with not much muscle mass and were very very flabby looking. I wondered then if it was the result of eating tons of refined (white) rice with not much protein and very little fat...

Sorry I am totally rambling here, but your thread (and your bypass thread) made me think about a lot of things...

tmm

[tmm99]

Rich in Tampa,

Thank you for your explanation. You mentioned in an earlier post a book called Good Calories, Bad Calories (and I thank you for that). I got the book ordered and I have it with me now, so I will start reading it. That hopefully will give me some more insight into the cholesterol myth/facts.

[windsurf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmm99 windsurf, Still, don't you lose so much weight eating like that? (unless you eat a lot of oatmeal/sprouted bread/sprouted tortillas, but that would negate your whole purpose, so I'm sure you are not doing that.) Without fat and not much protein (except for the egg whites, tempeh and very occasional small amount of turkey and some fish) or fat, do you feel you are losing strength/energy/weight? I was on a modified macrobiotic diet (I ate some fish, but this diet tends to be very low on protein as well as fat) at one point in my life, but I just wasn't getting the strength. Only way to avoid the hypoglycemic reaction seems to be to eat tons of protein and fat with it. That's probably why I am asking you if you feel you are losing strength/energy/weight with your diet. tmm

I am glad that I lost some weight- I was about 15 pounds heavier than i shoud have been. As to muscles, I think that maintaining muscle mass has a lot to do with hormone drives and I try to maintain mine by lifting weights and avoiding foods that drive up my insulin. I seem to be getting adequate protein as I am regaining some tone and mass that I lost during the first month post-op where I was more restricted in what I could do Even then, I was lifting light weights (very) the first week home from the hospital. While I was ding curls with 50 lb. dumbbells prior to the MI, I am back to using 35 lb. bells already and would be using heavier but for the drag they cause on my still healing chest. I think eating nutrient dense plants provides more than enough protein, though, as I mentioned, I eat a bit of animal protein as well.