Ibuprofen & drowsiness: Well, duh.

[HFWR]

Cant say I appreciate the raw sardine burps for 2 hours after taking it though.

You'll get used to it...

The enteric coated ones eliminate most of that issue.

 

[Nords]

I also have a torn ACL and never would have the surgery. I have spent years strengthning the muscles around the knee. It has worked.

Thanks for the advice, newguy. It occured to me last night that you're the first person I've talked to who has fewer than two ACLs...

I wonder how many people have torn their ACLs and still don't know.

 

[Alan]

DW and I tried taking chondroitin and glucosomine for 18 months. We didn't see any difference so we stopped about 2 years and still see no difference. Bit of a small study (We have both had knee problems this last 10 years).

 

[Mwsinron]

I may get old but I refuse to grow up!
I've watched glucosamine/MSM make arthritic polo ponies scamper around like colts, but I haven't seen any benefits in me or any other humans. I'll wait for a good double-blind study before I start shelling out for those supplements.

I think I'm doing enough and maybe too much already-- 400 IU vitamin E, 500 mg vitamin C, 500 B12, 50 mcg coenzyme Q10, fish oil, and a multi-mineral/multivitamin.

Works wonders for my wifes bad knee's. Is it a placebo? Not sure but she swears by it and her knees feel better. Id drop 35$ for a bottle and at least see what it does for you. She swears by it.
She had arthroscopic release of her lateral patella tendon and removal of loose cartilage.

 

[Cb]

I tore my ACL 20 years ago at 27 and the doc missed it diuring his initial diagnosis due to extreme swellintg. He scoped my knee a few weeks later and saw it then. He told me that since I was not an athlete I might be content with a somewhat unstable knee, and if I wasn't to check back with him for an ACL repair.

The two years with the unstable knee was miserable...many times I'd throw my foot forward going down steps then have a sensation that it might not wind up where i wanted it, so I'd grab the railing and do a double-hop to avoid landing badly on the loose knee. After 2 years the same doc did an extra-articular repair (not an ACL repair or replacement) to tighten the knee.

I was pretty content afterward, running a handful of 5K & 10K's, biking 20+ miles with some regulasrity, rollerblading, swimming, using an elliptical, treadmill, airdyne, moderate weightlifting, etc, and never felt the need to take an anti-inflamatory.

Three weeks ago I hyperextended the same knee while while working in the yard. The MRI showed significant meniscus damage. The new doc, a local 'star' said the knee was very unstable, and that I had considerable arthritis as the result of going around with an unstable knee...the extra movement led to erosion of the cartilage & meniscus until I was bone-to-bone in one location. My cursory Googling on ACL repairs did not yield 100% negative experiences as Nords has found (in fact, I'd be surprised if the procedures would be as popular as they are if outcomes were overwhelmingly negative)...rather a majority benefitted in most tests of knee function. I was told that ACL replacement (cadaver graft) was my best shot at slowing the deterioration of my knee.

I had the out-patient operation Monday, saw the surgeon on Tuesday (and several ugly photos of worn joint surfaces...approximately 20% of my meniscus remains, so he ground the bone's bearing surface to draw blood and stimulate the formation of "scarring cartilage", a poor substiture for OEM meniscus material). I began physical therapy on Wednesday. We'll see how it goes...

Cb

 

[Nords]

I began physical therapy on Wednesday. We'll see how it goes...

You'll have to keep us posted.

What type of anti-inflammatories are you taking?

 

[bow-tie]

Good!

I also have a torn ACL and never would have the surgery. I have spent years strengthning the muscles around the knee. It has worked....

Newguy / Nords /anyone - Know of any good resources for strengthening the kness/muscles around the knee? My basketball may be the end of me, but I enjoy it too much to give it up... just yet.

 

[Nords]

Newguy / Nords /anyone - Know of any good resources for strengthening the kness/muscles around the knee? My basketball may be the end of me, but I enjoy it too much to give it up... just yet.

To paraphrase my orthopedic surgeon, "Well, if you're going to keep playing basketball then you're just wasting your time."

If you've torn parts of your knee then there's no strengtheners in the world that will protect you from more basketball (and your opponents). Buying a good pair of $1500-$2000 orthopedic braces (lightweight carbon fiber) will be cheaper than surgery. Seriously-- I only wear them for tae kwon do and they've changed my life.

There are a number of knee-strengthening exercises in physical-therapy books. They mostly consist of sitting on the floor with your legs extended in front, clenching the knee muscles as tightly as you can, and raising the leg off the floor. For a thrill try pushing your knee down onto the floor as flat as possible while clenching those muscles.

Another variation includes sitting on the floor, bending your leg to a 45-degree angle, placing your heel on the floor, and trying to pull it toward you along the floor. That pull you feel on the back of your leg is the muscle you're rehabilitating.

I'm to the point now where I do squats, hamstring stretches, abductor & adductor stretches, and stairs. The squats, done properly & without weights, are the best. I wear the braces for the steps, especially if I'm carrying yard waste.

 

[Cb]

What type of anti-inflammatories are you taking?

Naproxen 2x a day.

The remarkable thing is the difference in procedures & rehab. 18 years ago when I had the ACL procedure I was in a cast for 6 weeks, then in a stiff brace for 6 weeks, finally starting PT about 3 months after surgery. I had very little range of motion and litte muscle tone at that point.

This time I had more work done (meniscus touch-up and the ACL graft & retention screws) and they had me at at home in this contraption ~3 hrs after surgery:

This is a Continuous Passive Motion machine (goes from a -5 to +115 degree bend ~twice per minute) with an electonic chill-pack - you can't see the little Igloo cooler full of ice water & the pump in the photo, just the blue send/return hoses. I've cut back from ~18 hrs day to about 10 now, one week after surgery.

I started PT on the second day....

Cb

 

[Nords]

I think it's pretty safe to say that if I showed that photo to my spouse, my tae kwon do days would be over...

 

[Martha]

Naproxen 2x a day.

The remarkable thing is the difference in procedures & rehab. 18 years ago when I had the ACL procedure I was in a cast for 6 weeks, then in a stiff brace for 6 weeks, finally starting PT about 3 months after surgery. I had very little range of motion and litte muscle tone at that point.

This time I had more work done (meniscus touch-up and the ACL graft & retention screws) and they had me at at home in this contraption ~3 hrs after surgery:

This is a Continuous Passive Motion machine (goes from a -5 to +115 degree bend ~twice per minute) with an electonic chill-pack - you can't see the little Igloo cooler full of ice water & the pump in the photo, just the blue send/return hoses. I've cut back from ~18 hrs day to about 10 now, one week after surgery.

I started PT on the second day....

Cb

I assume you can free yourself to take care of bodily functions?

What more do you need. A computer by your side and a machine to move your around.

 

[REWahoo]

I assume you can free yourself to take care of bodily functions?

Note the two blue hoses...

 

[Cb]

I assume you can free yourself to take care of bodily functions?

What more do you need. A computer by your side and a machine to move your around.

There are 2 velcro straps on he CPM machine (one on the boot, one on my thing) and the chill-pack has a almost no-leak quick-disconnect fitting, so I can get in & out easily.

The day of the surgery I used a urinal because I felt just a tetch light-headed, and my wife didn't seem to mind. Terribly.

That photo was taken last Tuesday...I didn't feel like washing my hair in the kitchen sink that day so I just brushed it back. Since then I've been up and around, up & down the steps a dozen times a day (I'm using a deep camera case as a carry-pack around my neck to haul stuff while on crutches.) My wife had to leave town on Friday, so I've been bach'ing it since, driving a car with an automatic, etc.

I've got a guitar & bass on the far side of the bed, and an amp, TV, VCR, DVD, etc to keep me occupied. 9 months of ER prepared me well for this...it doesn't take a lot to keep me busy.

Cb

 

[Nords]

I've got a guitar & bass on the far side of the bed, and an amp, TV, VCR, DVD, etc to keep me occupied.

A few more months of this, you'll be playing like Joe Perry and Billy Gibbons.

Speaking as someone who may be there in the (hopefully very distant) future, I hope that the pain & inconvenience of recovery is less than the pain that caused you to volunteer for this...

 

[Nords]

If it persists, you ought to have your blood count checked. That much ibuprofen for that long can lead to digestive bleeding and anemia. Now that can cause fatigue. As far as NSAIDs go, ibuprofen is probably as safe and effective as any.

Sorry, Nords. While you're at it, have your kidney function blood test checked, too (creatinine).

All normal, and thank goodness for residents with small fingers.

CO2 was "low" at 20 mEq/l instead of 23-29. But everything else was pretty much in the middle of the big fat bell curves.

I plotted 20 years of cholesterol medical-record data. Admittedly the 1987-2002 points are suspect because I just wasn't going to fast for 12 hours at some points in my career, but numbers over the last five years are slowly rising or slowly dropping in the "wrong" directions. Total cholesterol is up a bit to 212 (or down from 220 according to the older data points), HDL steady at 48, LDL creeping up to 150, TGL slightly down to 69. Fasting glucose was 84 but they skipped the diabetes lecture because it's been within a point or two of that for two decades. Hawaii leads the nation in diabetes cases so the doctors are kinda trigger-happy.

Anyway the cholesterol numbers don't reflect a lifetime of a blissfully-ignorant carnivorous diet nor do they reflect a conscientious effort to eat oatmeal daily for the last six months. (Good thing I like the taste.) No risk factors in my family tree and the doctor felt that I was "fairly active" so we also skipped the statins threats.

After a couple ibuprofen-free weeks I took an 800mg dose an hour before tae kwon do. No problems, and since it's an evening class any post-TKD drowsiness wasn't an issue. The doctor said daytime pain could be just as easily handled with aspirin & icepacks as much as ibuprofen, so that's the approach I'll take.

The knees are swelling less and getting stronger (I can tell when jumping rope) so now it's just a matter of being careful & staying injury-free for another six months of workouts. Funny thing-- since I've stopped going all-out during sparring, and since I've started holding back on some of the more rotary moves, my technique/speed/accuracy have actually improved. When you do the moves properly it doesn't hurt a bit...

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

All normal, and thank goodness for residents with small fingers.

Excellent news.

When our residents have small fingers, we teach them to use their thumbs.

 

[REWahoo]

When our residents have small fingers, we teach them to use their thumbs.

I know all who read this will now be wary of asking for a second opinion. Gives an entirely new meaning to the term 'two thumbs up'.

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

I know all who read this will now be wary of asking for a second opinion. Gives an entirely new meaning to the term 'two thumbs up'.

We call it hitchhiking.

 

[spideyrdpd]

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/glucosamine/NS_patient-glucosamine
Aspirin can be even harder on the stomach. I dont think the one shot 800mg ibuprofen is going to do all that much toward alleviating inflamation. I would try the 400mg and see how that feels.

 

[Nords]

I dont think the one shot 800mg ibuprofen is going to do all that much toward alleviating inflamation.

At 5'10" and 195 lbs, I was assured by the orthopedic surgeon that nothing anti-inflammatory was gonna get started at any dosage below 800 mg.

I'm intrigued by recent speculation that a little inflammation isn't a bad thing and could actually speed healing. Maybe we shouldn't attempt to totally eradicate it with NSAIDs. Of course we'd have to do more experiments on the researcher's knees & shoulders to see how committed they are to this hypothesis.

But it seems to be working-- ibuprofen and an icebag at night, maybe an aspirin or two during the day (or maybe not). I'm a big believer in the self-imposed placebo effect, too.

Probably the best thing is morning stretching (every day) and free weights in between tae kwon do days. But I come downstairs in the morning, play with the bunny for a few minutes, get a cuppa green tea, decide to check e-mail for a moment... and suddenly four hours have gone by.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I'm slightly discomforted with the discussion of 'playing with the bunny' in such close proximity to rectal incursions.

 

[Nords]

I'm slightly discomforted with the discussion of 'playing with the bunny' in such close proximity to rectal incursions.

Gutter mind. It's a game called "Dodge Bunny".

I come into the room, he races at my feet and runs around them. I run to a corner of the room. He chases me. I run to the other corner of the room. He chases me again. We volley back & forth about six times at which point he indicates that I've earned the right to pet him. We've played this game about 3000 times and he's won every time.

Spouse was telling our kid that she should do her biology project on "Rabbit's Habits", until we discovered that's a modern cultural reference to a whole different phenomenon... no, I'm not gonna link it, go look it up!

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

no, I'm not gonna link it, go look it up!

Not surprisingly, this is perfectly readable on a 32" monitor with no magnification necessary.

I tried to look it up, but nothing interesting within the first two google pages, so I give up!

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Uh...nevermind, I just had to drop the pluralization.

 

[happy2bretired]

Oh! The things you learn on this forum .