Insurance questions have me befuddled

danno1

Recycles dryer sheets
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Messages
61
Not sure what to do....need advice. I was eligible for Medicare last summer, so signed up in the appropriate window of time....I was then offered Michigan BlueCross/Blue Shield PPO network plan, so took that also as supplemental. Later, I got my first Medicare Premium Bill for the $510 which I paid out and a follow-up payment last fall. And the most recent one is due for $494.60 (a bit lower, based on recent cola adjustments). I pay INTO it, as I have not reached my full retirement age (FRA) for social security which will be this coming summer, so don't get any social security. I don't mind, as I am self-employed.

A couple months ago, I saw a Humana Health Ins. plan advertised on TV so called it. The agent I got, looked at my current plan and indicated based on my current health situation (which is great), that the current Humana plan they compared to my Michigan Blue Cross/ Blue Shield would cost me $306.00 less on future Medicare Premium payments.

Therefore I calculated my next premium to Medicare would be about $198.60 and I want to know if anyone else has this same experience? I have not cancelled my Michigan Blue Cross/ Blue Shield yet, as there is still more time this year. I just want to make sure this plan will actually cost less (the Humana one). Any insights would be appreciated.
 
It's a swamp. We are blessed by having an independent agent who is also a family friend. She has access to most or all of the plans and, with DW, figures out what is best for us. In our case it is a BCBS Advantage plan that covers us when we are traveling outside the country.

I suggest that you try to find a rep who can help you select and avoid talking to salespeople working for the health plans. That is the key phrase: "working for the health plans." What you want is a rep that is working for you.

Edit: It's not just about premium cost. In fact that may be the least important thing when plan features and networks are considered.
 
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Be careful you don't get saddled into a Medicare Advantage plan instead of a Medigap Supplemental plan. It is wise to understand the differences. As OS says, find a good broker who can help you decide what to buy rather than just sell you a plan.
 
When you give up Blue Cross, you’ll give up the best network in the state. For some, the trade off is worth it. Also, if the Humana plan is an HMO instead of a PPO then you have that to consider (referrals and managed care). Just make sure what you’re getting compared to what you have and whether or not that’s worth it for you.
 
your insights on this are greatly appreciated. The real reason I am asking, is an "agent" for Humana had called this morning to verify everything and I initially told her (her name was Nancy) that I was going to stay with BC/BS because after talking with a Medicare rep that I was changing over to Humana, that I would have lower Medicare premium bills...she said "no" they would still be the same. I was disheartened to say the least. Then this call from Nancy this morning where she re-emphasized the savings.

She then turned me over to sanother person with AFLAC who wanted to know if I had life insurenace, I said no, I cased it out some time ago due to high maintenance costs each month and rolled it into something else.

Then she asked about my automobile coverage, I said I was satisfired with that, and ultimately she got to the part of the conversation about any current"cancer & critical illness" plans I have - then why did I sign up for Humana in the first place? Like OS said "it's a swamp".....UGH

Does anyone have experience with Humana though? and out of curiosity what are your current Medicare Premium bills? My next one is $494.60 (a quarterly statement).
 
Sounds like you need to sit down with someone who can explain the differences between a Medicare Supplement plan and a Medicare Advantage plan. They are totally different. With a Medicare Supplement plan, like a Plan G or a Plan N, you pay a low deductible (~$226) and a Part B premium of $164.90/ month that you are paying quarterly. The Plan G can range from ~$90-$200 depending on location and the company, but they all pay the same thing. If Medicare pays, the Plan G or N supplement will pay.
With a Medicare Advantage plan, you are turning over many health decisions to the insurance company. Not good in my opinion. They offer lots of “benefits,” but make up for it in ways you won’t like when you’re really sick. Granted, some plans are better than others. I’ve heard many bad things about Humana in my area.

Edit to add: Some places you might want to use don’t take Medicare Advantage plans, such as the Mayo Clinic in some locations.
 
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I'll be moving to Medicare in 2024 and I just started to educate myself. You HAVE got to invest some time and effort into this as even the big picture is complicated. The details are REALLY complex.
Do yourself a favor and go to Youtube and look for one of the bigger medicare educators/independent brokers. Watch ALL of their material - it will be many hours worth of videos and some will be somewhat repetitive but if you force yourself to stick it out, you will gain the understanding needed to make a smart decision.
Examples of YouTube channels that I have found useful:
https://www.youtube.com/@MedicareSchool
https://www.youtube.com/@AbtInsuranceAgency
https://www.youtube.com/@MedicareonVideo
https://www.youtube.com/@ChristopherWestfall

I'm glad that I started the research a year ahead of time. In fact, it turns out I already missed some important details such as the fact that IRMAA rates are based on tax returns 2 years ahead of time. This is consequential stuff,
 
I did not know about these informative videos so thanking you for this. I will be absorbing as much of the information as possible. Thank you.

As it currently stands right at the moment, my Medicare health insurance entitles me to 'Hospital (Part A)' and 'Medical (Part B)' - as mentioned, my supplemental is Blue Cross / Blue Shield of Michigan....on upper right corner of card, it also reads Medicare Plus Blue PPO and not long ago, I signed up for additional full dental / vision / hearing through same Blue Cross/ Blue Shield of Michigan for an extra twenty dollars and change per month and that will be electronically paid via a checking account I have (that starts on January 1 of 2023).

When you indicate you'll be "moving" to Medicare in 2024, are you on something else currently? Curious - thanks for those video links, I appreciate that!
 
When you indicate you'll be "moving" to Medicare in 2024, are you on something else currently? Curious - thanks for those video links, I appreciate that!

Yes, I'm on a retiree health benefit plan through my former employer (Megacorp). That plan is quite generous (I have been retired for going on 6 years), but it ends when I reach medicare age.
 
Keep complaining so it gets fixed before I get there... I dread learning but figure there is no point in my trying to understand it now under current law.
 
It sounds like the OP, danno1, went the Medicare Advantage route after signing up for Medicare. There are/were MA plans hawked on TV that offered "money back on your Social Security". They are MA plans that have met some performance threshold, and they can reduce the cost to the enrollee by rebating a portion of the Medicare Part B premium (danno1 is paying the Medicare Part B premium in 3 month chunks).

For people that are on SS, and on Medicare, the Part B premium that all Medicare enrollees must pay, whether they go the MA route or Original Medicare route, is deducted from their SS before they get it. Thus, the "money back on your Social Security" line for the qualifying MA plans. If not on SS, then I guess they (Medicare itself) charges the enrollee less for Part B.

Whether on Original Medicare, or the MA route, Medicare (CMMS) acts as Part B premium collector and stick carrier if someone does not pay.
 
If it's advertised on TV, they are going to make a LOT of money off the suckers that phone them. All I ever see are lots of Medicare Advantage (which are NOT medicare) plans.
Many offer Money back on your SS check, free dental, free drive to the doctor, etc etc...
 
A friend of mine used to work for one of the Medical Advantage insurance companies and was paid $600 for every person she could convert. There are people that make a living doing this. Convert 10 people/month and that's $72k/yr.
 
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A friend of mine used to work for one of the Medical Advantage insurance companies and was paid $600 for every person she could convert. There are people that make a living doing this. Convert 10 people/month and that's $72k/yr.
From what I have read, the fees the government pays to Medicare Advantage providers makes the business very profitable. More, the fee depends on the health status of each individual so the plans are motivated to find and chart even old ailments that will move the individual up on the fee schedule.

Short version: The providers are doing exactly what the government has financially motivated them to do.
 
Plus there seems to be a lot of MA fraud, numerous providers are accused and we're talking $$$$ billions.
 
If it's advertised on TV, they are going to make a LOT of money off the suckers that phone them. All I ever see are lots of Medicare Advantage (which are NOT medicare) plans.
Many offer Money back on your SS check, free dental, free drive to the doctor, etc etc...

I always find this confusing. The gov't Medicare site refers to Medicare Advantage Plans (Part C Plans) as being part of Medicare. Yet many folks, such as yourself, say they are not part of Medicare. How are you making your determination in conflict with what the Medicare folks themselves say?
 
Plus there seems to be a lot of MA fraud, numerous providers are accused and we're talking $$$$ billions.

Of course, traditional Medicare Parts A, B and D are well known to be fraught with $$$$ billions of fraud and abuse too. There is a whole section on the Medicare.gov site talking about it and giving instructions on how to report it.

One of the most egregious examples I've heard is when Medicare beneficiaries and their docs "bend the truth" when coding procedures so that Medicare pays when it shouldn't. And, of course, the providers who simply turn in claims for services not medically necessary or not actually provided. (This if usually referred to as "abuse" rather than fraud but it's still a waste of precious medical resources.)

IMHO, fraud and abuse are majors factors pulling down the quality and pushing up the cost of health care in the USA.
 
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I always find this confusing. The gov't Medicare site refers to Medicare Advantage Plans (Part C Plans) as being part of Medicare. Yet many folks, such as yourself, say they are not part of Medicare. How are you making your determination in conflict with what the Medicare folks themselves say?

It's to the advantage of the plan c companies to encourage confusion. Maybe that's the real advantage :LOL:

Medicare works with lots of private insurance companies who must follow certain rules to be allowed to sell medicare supplemental policies, the same applies to Medicare advantage, except that Medicare no longer covers anything since the private company is doing it. That is the big difference in how health care is paid for, there is also a difference in what is covered.

Because they are subcontracted by Medicare to take people, each person they take is worth ~$13,000 per year as a fixed payment. Then the insurance company is responsible to take care of the health needs of the person. Medicare does not have responsibility anymore.

If you have a Medicare Advantage plan, you won't be covered unless you go to one of the doctors in their plan, even if the doctor takes medicare patients. That shows it's not Medicare.

Why does Medicare.gov even mention type C plans ? Probably because for really poor people, it could be better than just part A plan, since really poor people cannot afford part B. And if the network is close then it could work out fine.

On the actual Medicare.gov site (part bolded by me, where Medicare says it's different) : https://www.medicare.gov/sign-upchange-plans/types-of-medicare-health-plans/medicare-advantage-plans

"Medicare Advantage Plans are another way to get your Medicare Part A and Part B coverage. Medicare Advantage Plans, sometimes called “Part C” or “MA Plans,” are offered by Medicare-approved private companies that must follow rules set by Medicare. Most Medicare Advantage Plans include drug coverage (Part D). In most cases, you’ll need to use health care providers who participate in the plan’s network. These plans set a limit on what you’ll have to pay out-of-pocket each year for covered services. Some plans offer non-emergency coverage out of network, but typically at a higher cost. Remember, you must use the card from your Medicare Advantage Plan to get your Medicare-covered services. Keep your red, white, and blue Medicare card in a safe place because you may need to use your Medicare card for some services. Also, you’ll need it if you ever switch back to Original Medicare.*Below are the most common types of Medicare Advantage Plans.*"
 
I was eligible for Medicare last summer, so signed up in the appropriate window of time....I was then offered Michigan BlueCross/Blue Shield PPO network plan, so took that also as supplemental.
As it currently stands right at the moment, my Medicare health insurance entitles me to 'Hospital (Part A)' and 'Medical (Part B)' - as mentioned, my supplemental is Blue Cross / Blue Shield of Michigan....on upper right corner of card, it also reads Medicare Plus Blue PPO...

Your BCBS plan is not a supplement. It's a Medicare Advantage plan. You don't have Medicare; you're on a Medicare Advantage plan.

From what you said, this appears to be your plan:
https://www.bcbsm.com/medicare/plans/ma/2023-ppo-essential/

"Traditional" Medicare is Part A (which for most people is free) and Part B, which everyone must pay a premium for (that's what your quarterly $510 and now $494 payments are). Medicare itself pays 80% of approved charges, and the Medicare beneficiary is responsible for the other 20%. To cover that 20%, some (most) people buy a supplement, and they pay the premium for the supplement directly to the supplement company.

The supplement simply pays your 20% on your behalf, and has no say in whether procedures are covered by Medicare and has no say in whether it will pay a claim. If Medicare approves a claim and therefore pays its 80%, the supplement has no choice but to pay your 20% on your behalf.

If the word "network" or "HMO" or "PPO" is ever mentioned with respect to any sort of Medicare plan, it is NOT a supplement, but instead a Medicare Advantage plan.

People who choose Medicare Advantage also have to pay the Part B premium, so any time an Advantage plan is advertised as "free," it means only that there is no cost in addition to the Part B premium that every Medicare beneficiary pays. Advantage plans have their own premiums. Depending on the plan provisions, an Advantage plan can have a premium that you pay in addition to the Part B premium, it might have a $0 premium (so you have to pay only the Part B premium), or it might have a "negative" premium, which is the "money back on your social security check" they tout (the amount that is deducted for the Part B premium is reduced).

With traditional Medicare, the government pays 80% of your doctor bills, and either you or your supplement pays the other 20%. With Medicare Advantage, the government pays the Advantage company a set amount per enrollee (which can vary based on a person's health status), and turns all of the enrollee's healthcare over to the Advantage company--whether procedures are covered, how much they'll pay providers, how much you'll have to pay, etc. Medicare has nothing to do with you any more at that point--it's all your Medicare Advantage company.

Advantage plans vary. Some are like an HMO, with a local network that you have to stay in, referrals required for visits to specialists, and they have to approve in advance any procedures you get. But some, like the one you have, DO cover providers outside the network and don't require referrals to see specialists, and still offer the "add-ons" that Advantage plans are know for, like hearing aid coverage and gym memberships and the like.

So Advantage plans can be a real money saver, but they should be chosen for a reason, knowing the advantages and disadvantages, and I think that rarely happens.

I can't really get a bead on how the more expansive Medicare Advantage plans work, since HMOs make money by managing care, and if an Advantage plan isn't managing care, how can it make money? That's one reason I chose traditional Medicare--at least I understand how it works. But there are Advantage plans that cover you if you see out-of-network providers (yours does), and there are some that say they will provide coverage if you see any doctor who accepts Medicare.

We're fixing to start a Medicare Advantage Open Enrollment Period, which is different from the Medicare Open Enrollment period that just ended. From January through March, people with Advantage plans can change to another Advantage plan one time. They can also "revert" to traditional Medicare (although I've never seen a definition of "revert"--does it mean the person had to have traditional Medicare at some point in the past, or is it just a sloppy use of the word "revert"?).

But be aware--if you "revert" to traditional Medicare, it's a good idea to have a supplement to limit your exposure under the 20% Medicare doesn't pay (there's no out-of-pocket maximum for that 20%). However, since you have passed your Medicare initial enrollment period, because you live in Michigan, you will never have guaranteed-issue rights to any supplement. You will have to apply and be accepted, based on your health status.

Only a handful of states provide for guaranteed-issue periods for supplement. In every other state, medical underwriting for supplements is allowed. Because of that, some people who are on an Advantage plan find they can never switch to traditional Medicare if their health deteriorates to the point they can't pass medical underwriting for a supplement, and they don't want to have traditional Medicare without the protection of a supplement.
 
Your BCBS plan is not a supplement. It's a Medicare Advantage plan. You don't have Medicare; you're on a Medicare Advantage plan.

From what you said, this appears to be your plan:
https://www.bcbsm.com/medicare/plans/ma/2023-ppo-essential/

"Traditional" Medicare is Part A (which for most people is free) and Part B, which everyone must pay a premium for (that's what your quarterly $510 and now $494 payments are). Medicare itself pays 80% of approved charges, and the Medicare beneficiary is responsible for the other 20%. To cover that 20%, some (most) people buy a supplement, and they pay the premium for the supplement directly to the supplement company.

The supplement simply pays your 20% on your behalf, and has no say in whether procedures are covered by Medicare and has no say in whether it will pay a claim. If Medicare approves a claim and therefore pays its 80%, the supplement has no choice but to pay your 20% on your behalf.

If the word "network" or "HMO" or "PPO" is ever mentioned with respect to any sort of Medicare plan, it is NOT a supplement, but instead a Medicare Advantage plan.

........

My only comment is related to the highlighted passage. I am not certain about all states, but SOME Medicare Part B supplements are labeled "SELECT" where there is a "network" of medical services where one must go to get the supplement's complete 20% coverage. I don't know all of the details as I didn't bite. I do know that these "SELECT" supplements are available at a significantly lower premium than a "regular supplement".

"We're from the government and we are here to complicate and obfuscate your Medicare choices" should be Medicare's motto.
 
My only comment is related to the highlighted passage. I am not certain about all states, but SOME Medicare Part B supplements are labeled "SELECT" where there is a "network" of medical services where one must go to get the supplement's complete 20% coverage. I don't know all of the details as I didn't bite.
Aah, right you are. Since I didn't bite, either, I forget to think about them. But I shouldn't, because one article I read warned pretty convincingly that they were the future of Medicare.

"We're from the government and we are here to complicate and obfuscate your Medicare choices" should be Medicare's motto.
I nominate "This is the solution to America's healthcare crisis." And it's not a motto, but I always think, "This is no way to treat old people."
 
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