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Old 01-08-2020, 07:56 PM   #41
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I thought so too, but as I read the below they will adjust your income for IRMAA only if the reduction is as a result of certain events... and the qualifying events are pretty narrow.... though you may fall under the second bullet.... "stopped working or reduced your work hours".

https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10536.pdf
I have a suspicion that second bullet wouldn't apply to my DW and I. My DW was last to retire in June 2017. If it weren't for the sale of our house in October 2018, we would have been well under $174K MAGI in 2018, as was the case for 2017 and 2019, and will be the case for the foreseeable future.

While the move and downsizing we did as a result of the house sale would be considered a retirement move by many, I'm going to guess Medicare won't think so.
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Old 01-08-2020, 08:08 PM   #42
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Right. Reduced hours. And, yes, my net worth is well into eight figures. Will retire from a global law firm to sit on corporate boards and teach in a major law school.

I notice all the sniping at my income and observe that the mods must think that’s just fine, as they are absent. But if I were to respond in kind, there would be sanctions. So, best to just lurk here without saying much, as I do. Thanks for the IRMAA data.
I don't think it's sniping. I think it's having fun with you based on friendly envy, and not in a malicious way.
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Old 01-08-2020, 08:12 PM   #43
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Gotta love rich people whining about taxes.
If they didn't, they'd be higher yet.
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Old 01-08-2020, 08:19 PM   #44
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SGOTI = some guy on the internet
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Old 01-08-2020, 08:59 PM   #45
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My wife and I are relatively new to Medicare. In 2018, we made $418 over one of the IRMAA thresholds. As a result, we will pay about $2400 more in Medicare premiums during 2020.

I view it as just the breaks of the game, and it won't bankrupt us. But I kept a close eye on that MAGI number as 2019 was winding down, and didn't do as much Roth conversion as I could have.
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Old 01-08-2020, 09:16 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by 1-31-18 View Post
.... I notice all the sniping at my income and observe that the mods must think that’s just fine, as they are absent. But if I were to respond in kind, there would be sanctions. So, best to just lurk here without saying much, as I do. Thanks for the IRMAA data. ....
To be clear my friend, the sniping isn't at your income.... it is more at your indignation of the tax impacts of that high income.... and it is mostly in good fun... stick around... we're a pretty friendly bunch most of the time. Enjoy!
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Old 01-09-2020, 03:53 AM   #47
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Thanks for the data. For a couple, is that 1x $491.60 per month, or 2X? Suspect it’s 2X, or basically $12K per year, in which case Medicare presents no savings whatsoever to me and DW.
We sure as hell get taxed for it, though. Wealth transfer, pure and simple.

And the $76.40 surcharge — 1x, or 2X?

If anyone has a feel for what the basic Part D coverage charge would be, to which the surcharge is added, that would be helpful, too. I understand that there are many competing plans, so it might be hard to generalize. Just looking for a general idea.

More annoying than the steep progression in these costs is the complete surprise. I will pay steep premiums next year and the year after based on what I earned last year and the year before. And I was supposed to know this? Glad I found out at this forum, so I can budget for it.


If your paying the $76 surcharge it means you make atleast 500 or 750k per year magi. I don’t think you really need to “budget” for it.

Even with the surcharges for high income, Medicare premiums are less than the policy would cost on the free market by a commercial profit oriented business (if they would even insure a person of a certain age to begin with). So I don’t think there is any “wealth transfer”.
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Old 01-09-2020, 03:58 AM   #48
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Well, I don’t know what SGOTI is, but I’m not in the business of trying to satisfy you. And if you read the thread you will see that no advice was requested, except from my ERISA partner. Here, I only asked for data — and got it.

Kinda like, “I see you are wearing a watch. What time is it?” “9:18 pm, you say? Thank you very much.”

Thanks again for the accurate data. Too busy to chase it down myself. Clued me in on an issue to run down with an expert.

Cheers.
With respect, I think you ought to lighten up and quit worrying about the little s$$t. Just write the check and go enjoy your retirement. It's a miniscule amount with respect to your assets. It's upsetting you way more that its relative importance [emoji3526]. Spend more time at 30000 feet rather than at the micro level.
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Old 01-09-2020, 04:51 AM   #49
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I notice all the sniping at my income and observe that the mods must think that’s just fine, as they are absent. But if I were to respond in kind, there would be sanctions. So, best to just lurk here without saying much, as I do. Thanks for the IRMAA data.
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Old 01-09-2020, 08:18 AM   #50
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We sold a paid off rental property in 2018 when I was 63. I'm prepared to pay the extra as I know that's the year they use to calculate your income, but is the penalty for just one year? Will I be able to show that our income has dropped to lower levels again?
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Old 01-09-2020, 08:28 AM   #51
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is the penalty for just one year?
They recalculate it every year based on the most recent tax return they have. So you should get a letter late in the year telling you of any IRMAA penalty for the upcoming year based on the previous year's return.
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Old 01-09-2020, 08:38 AM   #52
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They recalculate it every year based on the most recent tax return they have. So you should get a letter late in the year telling you of any IRMAA penalty for the upcoming year based on the previous year's return.
My husband does medicare counseling, and CMS does a good job of raising your premiums for IRMAA, but not so great lowering it back. Best to check each year yourself and make sure it is correct. If they don't lower it, they don't refund for the past is my understanding.
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Old 01-09-2020, 08:42 AM   #53
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I have a suspicion that second bullet wouldn't apply to my DW and I. My DW was last to retire in June 2017. If it weren't for the sale of our house in October 2018, we would have been well under $174K MAGI in 2018, as was the case for 2017 and 2019, and will be the case for the foreseeable future.

While the move and downsizing we did as a result of the house sale would be considered a retirement move by many, I'm going to guess Medicare won't think so.
The thing that is really odd is that if you quit working or reduce your hours then they will adjust your income for IRMAA but if your income is high because of a gain on sale of your house and you don't have any more houses to sell then they won't adjust for that. Or if your income i h because you did some big Roth conversions and no longer have any tIRAs to convert (or don't plan to convert).

I would like to see it done like Obamacare subsidies.... based it on most recently filed tax return available but allow adjustments for documented changes in income but then true it up at tax time.
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Old 02-27-2020, 11:04 AM   #54
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We sold a paid off rental property in 2018 when I was 63. I'm prepared to pay the extra as I know that's the year they use to calculate your income, but is the penalty for just one year? Will I be able to show that our income has dropped to lower levels again?



We went to the social security office last week, and were informed that if we fill out an SSA44 Form, along with proof of the property sale, and a letter of explanation, we will NOT pay any IRMAA fees at all.


They even said we would get a rebate, if we pay a month or two, prior to the paper work being accepted..
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Old 04-14-2020, 06:24 AM   #55
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They recalculate it every year based on the most recent tax return they have. So you should get a letter late in the year telling you of any IRMAA penalty for the upcoming year based on the previous year's return.
Just received my Medicare Premium from SSA and I have been IRMAA'ed. This was not on my radar screen two years ago when I paid cash for a home in 2018.

So my 2018 tax return caused a one-time MAGI spike to about 91K in 2018 due to the capitol gains from liquidating some assets. My 2017, 2019 (actuals),and 2020 (projected) were, and should continue be in the 75K to 80K range (until the RMD torpedo hits at 72).

1)Wait to see if my $57.80/mo IRMAA adjustment for medicare part B "poofs away" next year.
2) File a SFA-44 even though my case doesn't explicitly fall into any of the boxes that can be checked and see what if anything happens.
3) Call Social Security and plead my case (I assume the offices are closed).
4) Go into acceptance mode that I will be paying a $57.80/mo IRMAA penalty for the next 7 or so years even though my MAGI will (should?) remain below the ~$87K threshold.
5) Get a mail-order bride so I can file married.

TIA for any comments/suggestions.
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Old 04-14-2020, 07:01 AM   #56
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Am I reading the table correctly? As a "married filing jointly", my AGI would have to be above 218K to be impacted by IRMAA?
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Old 04-14-2020, 07:07 AM   #57
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No, the first IRMAA surcharge level is at $174,000 AGI. The surcharge steps up again at $218,000 AGI again at several higher levels. And it is based on your AGI from two years before.

https://www.medicare.gov/Pubs/pdf/11...care-costs.pdf
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Old 04-14-2020, 07:09 AM   #58
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4) Go into acceptance mode that I will be paying a $57.80/mo IRMAA penalty for the next 7 or so years even though my MAGI will (should?) remain below the ~$87K threshold.
Isn't the determination made for each Medicare year, meaning for next year's Medicare payment they will use the 2019 tax filing?
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Old 04-14-2020, 07:12 AM   #59
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No, the first IRMAA surcharge level is at $174,000 AGI. The surcharge steps up again at $218,000 AGI again at several higher levels. And it is based on your AGI from two years before.

https://www.medicare.gov/Pubs/pdf/11...care-costs.pdf
You can easily tell whether you'll be hit by IRMAA-la-not-so-douce because you know what your prior tax returns had.

The good news is that when your AGI goes down, your surcharge will automatically be reduced or disappear as appropriate. No need to do anything for that to occur.
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Old 04-14-2020, 07:14 AM   #60
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Isn't the determination made for each Medicare year, meaning for next year's Medicare payment they will use the 2019 tax filing?

I certainly hope so, but I haven't seen that in writing in the small percentage of the hundreds pages of SSA, Mediare, CMS... rules&regs that I looked at. I could have easily missed it somewhere in the fine print.
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