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Old 04-18-2017, 02:33 PM   #121
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Let's keep politics out of the discussion, please.
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Old 04-18-2017, 02:34 PM   #122
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My plan is to move to France and continue to work there in some capacity (temp jobs, teaching English, B&B, etc.).
Our plan is to just retire to Mexico

What Does the Mexican Healthcare System Have to Do with Cooking Videos?Ventanas Mexico
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Old 04-18-2017, 02:37 PM   #123
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Let's keep politics out of the discussion, please.
Define 'politics' -

If by 'politics' you mean 'any mention whatsoever of elected representatives' then ok, I guess I crossed a line there.

But seriously, talking about how politicians are corrupt and how money influences it all - is that really controversial to anyone at all? It's pretty much across the board and not partisan at all.

Just trying to clarify, not stir the pot, honest...
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Old 04-18-2017, 02:47 PM   #124
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Define 'politics' -
This is a difficult topic to discuss for all of us. It has been a highly charged, partisan issue for quite a few years. That is why, when the discussion covers actual legislative efforts, there have been multiple requests to keep any talk of legislation focused on bills under serious consideration, their specifics and impact.

Personally, I would consider "unhelpful politics" (as it related to this discussion) any comment that attempts to portray, illustrate or highlight a particular partisan view, individual or position in a way that has no bearing on the specifics of the legislation. By unhelpful, I mean it usually is the beginning of the end.
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Old 04-18-2017, 03:00 PM   #125
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I think health care just give people excuse to delay retirement. Without this, they just find other excuses.
+1

Yes, health care is expensive.

But....... Other items in retirement budgets are sometimes expensive too. At "geezer breakfast" last Friday morning, one of my buddies still working part time for HI said that the cost of HI was keeping him from fully retiring. He jotted the big hitter budget items on a napkin for me. I noticed $15k for HI and also $15k for travel. I asked him why not just retire and stay home until Medicare kicks in? He responded that he just couldn't bring himself to spend $15k of his own money on HI. But travel, he felt good about spending that and he would gladly.

Is it always the cost of HI that keeps folks from retirement? Or is it also the fact that people don't like spending on HI even if they could by simply giving up some discretionary expense such as travel?
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Old 04-18-2017, 03:10 PM   #126
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Yes, healthcare cost is a dilemma for early retirees. It may look like a simple choice to work till 65, but I was hit with a life-threatening problem that could end my life long before I get to 65. I am OK now, or it would be a bummer.

If I were not already retired when that diagnosis was made, I would not go back to work at my part-time job when I got out of the hospital. If I did not have enough money, I would pack up and move into a small RV and go down to the river or into the forest, like some RV'ers recovering from potentially terminal illnesses whose blogs I read.
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Old 04-18-2017, 03:16 PM   #127
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What part of Mexico would you retire to?
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Old 04-18-2017, 03:31 PM   #128
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Yes, in a way. I am a Fed, and I can't keep my post-retirement health bennies if I retire before I am eligible for an immediate pension at my minimum retirement age, which in my case is 56 years and 10 months of age (about 9 years from now).


I will have 30 years in gov't at age 52, which gives me a full pension at 57, but not the ability to keep health. So, I'll wait until 56 years and 10 months. The uncertainty of having to pay on my own from 52 until Medicare is too risky for me.
If you have annuity, you get to keep healthcare in retirement as long as you are paying for it at least 5 years continuously pre-retirement . You are eligible for retirement at MRA and 10 years. So I think you are qualified.

https://www.opm.gov/retirement-servi...n/eligibility/

https://www.opm.gov/healthcare-insur...e/eligibility/
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Old 04-18-2017, 03:39 PM   #129
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IMO - lack of pre-65 retiree medical benefits in the private sector and the uncertainty surrounding the future of ACA is a huge cause of job-lock and entrepreneurship-lock

although I expected to see more early retirees as a result of ACA subsidies I'm having difficulty finding something other than anecdotal evidence (i.e. this forum) to substitute facts for appearances

personally, I'm taking a wait and see approach
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Old 04-18-2017, 03:51 PM   #130
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What part of Mexico would you retire to?
Lake Chapala - a.k.a. Lakeside - Ajijic specifically
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Old 04-18-2017, 03:57 PM   #131
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So you are planning on a compounded 25% increase per year?

I know you will be medicare eligible, but if someone younger used your increase, in just 10 years they would be paying $200,000 a year in premium. Realistic?
No, I am using that 25% increase mainly for 2018. After that we will look at options to get our premiums lower.
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Old 04-18-2017, 03:58 PM   #132
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Lake Chapala - a.k.a. Lakeside - Ajijic specifically
We're interested Mexico as an option but haven't been to Mexico very much and don't know a lot about it. Have you lived there before? Any crime concerns?
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Old 04-18-2017, 04:16 PM   #133
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I asked him why not just retire and stay home until Medicare kicks in?
Is it always the cost of HI that keeps folks from retirement? Or is it also the fact that people don't like spending on HI even if they could by simply giving up some discretionary expense such as travel?
Why would I want to retire and stay home to watch the grass grow?

This is an issue that transcends the health insurance question. It is always true that if I'm willing to give things up both now and after retirement, I could retire sooner. Maybe much sooner. As an extreme example, I could live in a tent behind the supermarket and dumpster dive for food now, so that I could save money and live in a tent and dumpster dive later. It wouldn't take very long to save enough for that and then I could retire lickety split.

I want to reasonably enjoy life both now and after retirement. If delaying to get health insurance means that I get to travel both now and after full retirement, then I'm willing to do that. I appreciate that your calculus may be different.
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Old 04-18-2017, 04:26 PM   #134
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Why would I want to retire and stay home to watch the grass grow?

This is an issue that transcends the health insurance question. It is always true that if I'm willing to give things up both now and after retirement, I could retire sooner. Maybe much sooner. As an extreme example, I could live in a tent behind the supermarket and dumpster dive for food now, so that I could save money and live in a tent and dumpster dive later. It wouldn't take very long to save enough for that and then I could retire lickety split.

I want to reasonably enjoy life both now and after retirement. If delaying to get health insurance means that I get to travel both now and after full retirement, then I'm willing to do that. I appreciate that your calculus may be different.
Wow! I never expected that interpretation! Hee, hee...... Perhaps I misspoke......

My point was that some folks seem to blame HI costs for their inability to FIRE when their retirement budget includes serious discretionary spending which could be whittled down to accommodate FIREing and buying HI with the income they have available. But they seldom mention the discretionary expenses as being the cause of the FIRE delay. It's always the HI.

Let's say you have a $100k retirement budget. $65k essentials, $20k polo ponies and $15k HI. Your projected max safe retirement spending is $90k, so you're short. Most people I run into are blaming the HI and see no reason to reduce the number of polo ponies in the stable. It just seems odd to always blame the HI spending and never mention sacred discretionary spending,, such as polo ponies.

Ref your other points, not really related to the intent of my post, I agree with you. If all the items in your budget are important to you and their utility to you exceeds the aggravation of earning the bux to support them in retirement, by all means delay until you can. I would and I completely agree. But in my example, I'd blame the polo ponies right along with the HI costs. I'd say that HI and polo pony lust is delaying my retirement.

Of course, if you don't have any discretionary income being spent on things you could give up, it's all moot.......
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Old 04-18-2017, 04:32 PM   #135
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Wow! I never expected that interpretation! Hee, hee...... Perhaps I misspoke......

My point was that some folks seems to blame HI costs for their inability to FIRE when their retirement budget includes serious discretionary spending which could be whittled down to accomodate FIREing with the income they can afford. But they seldom mention the discretionary expenses as being the cause of the FIRE delay.
Thanks for the clarification. I now understand your original point, and I agree. Your friend is just $15k/year short of what he needs to retire, period.
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Old 04-18-2017, 04:53 PM   #136
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Thanks for the clarification. I now understand your original point, and I agree. Your friend is just $15k/year short of what he needs to retire, period.
Yes. But he blames/verbalizes only HI costs. And I sometimes hear that trend here too. Perhaps I'm too sensitive to it or my view of the constraints to achieving FIRE is too broad?

I suspect the reason HI is so often unilaterally blamed is because some folks have a hope/expectation that "someone else" (government? employer?) will provide HI for them whereas they have no hope that someone else will help support the polo ponies.

In any case, I agree with all that HI is expensive and one of the major hurdles to FIRE for most of us. And polo pony lust too........
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Old 04-18-2017, 05:00 PM   #137
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Define 'politics' -

If by 'politics' you mean 'any mention whatsoever of elected representatives' then ok, I guess I crossed a line there.

But seriously, talking about how politicians are corrupt and how money influences it all - is that really controversial to anyone at all? It's pretty much across the board and not partisan at all.

Just trying to clarify, not stir the pot, honest...
Anything I may say LOL
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Old 04-18-2017, 05:06 PM   #138
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For me, here in NJ, the property taxes nearly rivals the health insurance premiums without subsidies assuming ACA goes away.

If I was to retire now, I would need nearly $20K for those two alone.
Granted, this is a silver plan, and I would most likely switch to a bronze plan.
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Old 04-18-2017, 05:28 PM   #139
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He responded that he just couldn't bring himself to spend $15k of his own money on HI.
This is exactly my DW's reaction to the high cost of HI too. Although she says she is supportive of me hanging it up anytime, I can tell she does not like the idea of paying $15k+ per year for HI one bit.
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Old 04-18-2017, 06:06 PM   #140
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If you have annuity, you get to keep healthcare in retirement as long as you are paying for it at least 5 years continuously pre-retirement . You are eligible for retirement at MRA and 10 years. So I think you are qualified.
I believe what kaudrey was stating is that they couldn't retire at 52 years old (with 30 years of service) and keep their healthcare coverage. The earliest they could retire and retain healthcare coverage is at their MRA (56 yr and 10 mo).
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