Mini stroke - TIA anyone?

[chris2008]

And another TIA today.
Fortunately at home. I called the ambulance and he went to a stroke unit. All symptoms went away within 4 hours.
I guess now he will take a blood thinner. So far half of the Drs he had advised to take and the other half not to take.
Any TIA news from other participants?
I hope you all are still ok.

[imoldernu]

Good that the TIA has passed.

I wasn't on the original thread, but have had the TIA experience with my DW some 23 years ago. I'll defer to Rich on the thoughts and recommendations posted here in 2013. Sounded very knowledgeable.

I would go back to our own situation, to try and explain my thoughts on the subject. i think the term "transient" ischemic attack can be misleading, as it sounds as if it's something that comes and goes.

First off, we, at our age, we have a number of friends who have suffered from this, always recovering, and hoping it won't happen again. I'm a little more reluctant to leave it like that, and more inclined to want to know the specific reason for the attack.

In our case, it happened when she was line dancing, and suddenly had trouble speaking. We were in FL at the time, and went to the localhospital, where they diagnosed it as a TIA... It so happened that the chief surgeon for the greater Tampa area was in the hospital at the time, and was called in to the ER... He immediately ordered a CT or MRA scan and found a blockage in the carotid artery, below the jawline, on the neck. Other than this immediate diagnosis, we probably would have lost her. Quickly into the OR where the Dr. performed a very difficult surgery... opening up the carotid artery and delicately extracting a clot.. a four inch incision. Afterwards, he came in to see us, and showed a picture of the clot. The major part of the clot was on the way up to the brain, which might have been the end. Instead, the tail end of the clot, was still stuck to the wall of the artery, and was able to be removed. The Dr. kept a picture of the clot he removed, to show at his lectures, as an example of difficult surgery. We were forever grateful, an no recurrence since that scary day.

My reason for posting, is to highlight the concept of diagnosing the cause, if possible, and not to dismiss the attacks as something that just comes and goes. While this is not always possible, my thinking is that if the attack is in progress, rather than just treating it as being transitory, to attempt a diagnosis. In our case, it was definitely the difference between life and death.

Here's a link to Mayo, that presents the different means of diagnosis.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-c...s/dxc-20314631

I am not a doctor, and this experience may not be pertinent to other cases, but thought to pass it along, as a case where we dodged the bullet.

As to anti clotting drugs... A subject all by itself, and an exercise in understanding the different approaches that are in the process of developing the best drugs. Definitely not cut and dried, and not a simple process for the patient. Warfarin is probably most prescribed, but requires considerable follow up and testing. I have AFIB, and have been prescribed Xarelto, which doesn't require as much follow up testing, but which present its' own downsides, not the least of which is cost. Learning about the pluses and minuses is a major study in itself.

Just a personal experience and not intended to give medical advice.

[kcowan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by imoldernu Quickly into the OR where the Dr. performed a very difficult surgery... opening up the carotid artery and delicately extracting a clot.. a four inch incision. Afterwards, he came in to see us, and showed a picture of the clot. The major part of the clot was on the way up to the brain, which might have been the end. Instead, the tail end of the clot, was still stuck to the wall of the artery, and was able to be removed. The Dr. kept a picture of the clot he removed, to show at his lectures, as an example of difficult surgery. We were forever grateful, an no recurrence since that scary day.

It is always good to be lucky. Congratulations.

(I have always said it is more important to be lucky than right!)

[LARS]

First of all, it is absolutely irrelevant what anyone tells you on a board like this. You need to work with your doctors to get the right answer for your husband. If the ones you've got are resistant to your respectful involvement then get new doctors.

That said, I had a right vertebral dissection, which caused a series of strokes twenty years ago. In my particular case, my vision and balance was affected. This occurred as a consequence of a skiing accident.

In my case, no surgery was necessary (surgery in the neck is tricky stuff). I was initially on Coumadin, which lasted for approximately 3 years. Since then I have taken an adult aspirin a day. No recurring event. Always loved how the neurologist referred to stroke as an "event". Based upon my research at the time (20 years ago) I learned that in 10% of the cases involving strokes there is 100% recovery, with no lingering side effects. Thankfully, I fell into that category.

[chris2008]

Thank you all for your input.
He will come home tomorrow.
The MRI and all other investigations showed no issues so far.
Sometimes xxx just happens.
Best wishes to you all.

[jim584672]

My mother had mini-strokes that eventually lead to her vascular dementia and death. She also had a 90% blockage in her carotid artery which required surgery. They took a vein from her leg to rebuild her carotid. This helped her stay even for a few years.

Years of untreated blood pressure / smoking / lack of exercise I am convinced caused (or greatly added to) her condition. She always refused to go to the doctor. These things can just happen, but in her case I am sure she would have had many more healthy years if she would have taken care of things.

[Live Free]

My husband had a stroke in 2015 at age 54. Fortunately he was right in front of me when it happened and I got him to the ER within minutes. He was assessed (CT scan, MRI, carotid ultrasound etc.) and given the drug TPA which miraculously saved him from some permanent deficits. His arteries appeared clear and we were never sure what caused it. He was already on low-dose aspirin for many years prior at the time of his stroke, due to very, very low HDL and high LDL. They added an additional blood thinner to the mix - plavix. He is extremely active and of normal weight. So this was a shock for us, considering his relative young age.

Last year he had another stroke episode (slurred speech, loss of strength on one side of his body, drooping side of face) - this time the symptoms went away on their own after about 2 hours in the ER. They called this a TIA. They repeated many of the same tests - MRIs, ultrasounds of the neck, etc. No cause identified. He has since been to a neurologist for all kinds of follow-up tests as well as to a heart specialist for tests. So far no tests have come back with any definitive diagnosis. His doctors are divided on whether he should continue with the blood thinners.

Personally I think this is a genetic problem. His mother and many in her family have either had dibilitating strokes or have had many TIAs.

In any case, I'm sorry your husband has experienced another TIA. It is scary. I have learned that sometimes there are not obvious answers when it comes to strokes/TIAs and the various doctors (primary care, neurologist, cardiologist) are not in agreement on whether to continue with medication.

[CubicleDrone]

I think simple Vitamin C goes a long way to keeping strokes at bay.

A good time-released C is really one of the cheap non-glamorous miracles of our time.

[chris2008]

Thanks for taking time to reply.
Yes, it is scary to watch and being the responsible person to react.
So far, DH is well. In his family, there have been strokes on both parental sides.
We both take vitamin c daily for years. He will take aspirin now, too.
Never overweight, not smoking. Not much else to do and see.
We have been in Vietnam and Cambodia in Feb. At least it did noth happen then and there.

[Meadbh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CubicleDrone I think simple Vitamin C goes a long way to keeping strokes at bay. A good time-released C is really one of the cheap non-glamorous miracles of our time.

Can you share references with us?

[CubicleDrone]

The best reference is the book by the author who got Linus Pauling interested in C (who, in turn, popularized it).

Irwin Stone's "The Healing Factor".
Its available free to read: The Healing Factor: Vitamin C Against DiseaseC

Id admit the data on strokes is sparse, but when you read on how Vit C is ignored by the mainstream in other areas where the data is not sparse, you'll get the idea.

(Edit: As theres the possibility of people in this thread taking this informal non-medical advice seriously: Id add that after reading this book, which is a quick read - I read it in two nights, to consider Linus Pauling's Lysine/Proline theory as well and also consider Lipospheric C).

[Meadbh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CubicleDrone The best reference is the book by the author who got Linus Pauling interested in C (who, in turn, popularized it). Irwin Stone's "The Healing Factor". Its available free to read: The Healing Factor: Vitamin C Against DiseaseC Id admit the data on strokes is sparse, but when you read on how Vit C is ignored by the mainstream in other areas where the data is not sparse, you'll get the idea. (Edit: As theres the possibility of people in this thread taking this informal non-medical advice seriously: Id add that after reading this book, which is a quick read - I read it in two nights, to consider Linus Pauling's Lysine/Proline theory as well and also consider Lipospheric C).

Thank you.

I note that this book was published in 1972. The reference list covers only chapters 12 and 13 and the articles cited were published between 1939 and 1970.

Don't you think it's a bit odd that it hasn't caught on 45 years later?

[kcowan]

I am on low dose aspirin (81g) and high dose Vitamin B (500g) daily but no mention of Vitamin C?

[CubicleDrone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meadbh Thank you. I note that this book was published in 1972. The reference list covers only chapters 12 and 13 and the articles cited were published between 1939 and 1970. Don't you think it's a bit odd that it hasn't caught on 45 years later?

Not at all.
A combination of the paradigm being too different from the established theories of the mainstream AND the fact that Vitamin C cannot be made into a money-maker mean it will never catch on (in the present system).

A somewhat updated book are the books of Dr. Thomas E. Levy... but frankly, I found the original Irwin Stone book more readable and convincing.

I would add at this point, that if you are unwilling to put in a night or two to read the book cover to cover first, no debate is possible. Your skepticism will overrule anything I could say.

Been there done that.

[Meadbh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CubicleDrone I would add at this point, that if you are unwilling to put in a night or two to read the book cover to cover first, no debate is possible. Your skepticism will overrule anything I could say.

Not skepticism. Critical thinking. As a former scientific researcher, I am looking for high quality studies, preferably randomized controlled trials, that have been replicated.

Here is a report of a presentation (not yet peer reviewed) from 2014. It looks promising, but, as the article says....

"It is important to note that data and conclusions presented at medical meetings typically are considered preliminary until published in a peer-reviewed journal."

Can Vitamin C Ward Off Stroke? – WebMD

Now, moving to Google Scholar, we can see several fairly recent peer reviewed published cohort studies that show a relationship between Vitamin C status and the risk of stroke.

https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?hl...1%2C5&as_sdtp=

Association is not the same as causation, so we cannot assume that ingesting extra Vitamin C would prevent strokes. What this evidence shows is that a randomized controlled trial would be worthwhile. Unfortunately it would also be expensive to do, because it would have to be a large study conducted over many years. Pending such a study, it would be reasonable for the public to take supplemental Vitamin C, though not in large doses (because everything has side effects!).

So I am not dismissing what you said. I am dealing with the information by evaluating it in the best way I know how, i.e. scientifically.

[Fedup]

I did read there is some problem with taking Vitamin C. So we are not taking it. But my husband and I have been taking ground fresh turmeric with honey, it works as a blood thinner. One needs to stop taking it at least 2 weeks before any kind of surgery. I like alternative medicine.
EDIT to add, it's really good for anti- inflammation.

[bmcgonig]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meadbh Not skepticism. Critical thinking. As a former scientific researcher, I am looking for high quality studies, preferably randomized controlled trials, that have been replicated. Here is a report of a presentation (not yet peer reviewed) from 2014. It looks promising, but, as the article says.... "It is important to note that data and conclusions presented at medical meetings typically are considered preliminary until published in a peer-reviewed journal." Can Vitamin C Ward Off Stroke? – WebMD Now, moving to Google Scholar, we can see several fairly recent peer reviewed published cohort studies that show a relationship between Vitamin C status and the risk of stroke. https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?hl...1%2C5&as_sdtp= Association is not the same as causation, so we cannot assume that ingesting extra Vitamin C would prevent strokes. What this evidence shows is that a randomized controlled trial would be worthwhile. Unfortunately it would also be expensive to do, because it would have to be a large study conducted over many years. Pending such a study, it would be reasonable for the public to take supplemental Vitamin C, though not in large doses (because everything has side effects!). So I am not dismissing what you said. I am dealing with the information by evaluating it in the best way I know how, i.e. scientifically.

There's a cardiologist on the web whose videos I watch, Yorkcardiologist.com, who said that there is debate that some strokes might be caused by inflammation. I wonder since Vitamin C is potentially an antiinflammatory that this might be the connection, if there is indeed a connection. No idea here, just wondering.

[Meadbh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmcgonig There's a cardiologist on the web whose videos I watch, Yorkcardiologist.com, who said that there is debate that some strokes might be caused by inflammation. I wonder since Vitamin C is potentially an antiinflammatory that this might be the connection, if there is indeed a connection. No idea here, just wondering.

The association with inflammation is supported by research. You may also be aware that periodontal disease is associated with cardiovascular problems. Chronic inflammation appears to be a bad thing all around. So eat your fruits and vegetables, and floss daily!

[CubicleDrone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meadbh Not skepticism. Critical thinking. As a former scientific researcher, I am looking for high quality studies, preferably randomized controlled trials, that have been replicated. Here is a report of a presentation (not yet peer reviewed) from 2014. It looks promising, but, as the article says.... "It is important to note that data and conclusions presented at medical meetings typically are considered preliminary until published in a peer-reviewed journal." Can Vitamin C Ward Off Stroke? – WebMD Now, moving to Google Scholar, we can see several fairly recent peer reviewed published cohort studies that show a relationship between Vitamin C status and the risk of stroke. https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?hl...1%2C5&as_sdtp= Association is not the same as causation, so we cannot assume that ingesting extra Vitamin C would prevent strokes. What this evidence shows is that a randomized controlled trial would be worthwhile. Unfortunately it would also be expensive to do, because it would have to be a large study conducted over many years. Pending such a study, it would be reasonable for the public to take supplemental Vitamin C, though not in large doses (because everything has side effects!). So I am not dismissing what you said. I am dealing with the information by evaluating it in the best way I know how, i.e. scientifically.

Calling something scientific does not make it so, especially if you are dealing with a different paradigm from the one you are used to.

I'd call what you are doing lazy, because you seem unwilling to put in the time which may shift your paradigm.

Been there done that. You will need to read the book, cover to cover, freely available and relatively short, (and you are welcome to try out the Levy books too - which are much more current).

[Meadbh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CubicleDrone Calling something scientific does not make it so, especially if you are dealing with a different paradigm from the one you are used to. I'd call what you are doing lazy, because you seem unwilling to put in the time which may shift your paradigm. Been there done that. You will need to read the book, cover to cover, freely available and relatively short, (and you are welcome to try out the Levy books too - which are much more current).

There is no need to be insulting. I do not "need" to read anything, and I have no doubt that you will not read any of the references I included. Let's leave it at that, shall we?