Next they'll be recommending bed rest

[haha]

Ultra Marathons Might Be Ultra Bad for your Heart - Yahoo! News

According to an unattributed source, ideal amount of endurance exercise may be much less than we might have thought.

Ha

[DFW_M5]

And how many times will they swing back and forth on subjects like this based on the latest study du jour

[braumeister]

I don't doubt the results of the Mayo Clinic study; they're generally reliable.
But I'm pretty confident it's only part of the story.

For example,

Quote:

... many of these athletes had temporarily elevated levels of substances that promote inflammation and cardiac damage.

I would think that closely following those readings, they showed similarly elevated levels of substances that repair that damage, probably lasting long enough to produce a net positive effect.

Personally, my marathoning days are over, but I still do at least a couple of half marathons per year, and I'm not likely to quit until I can't hack it any more, in which case I'll simply downgrade again and do more 10-Ks. The more exercise the better, in my book.

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFW_M5 And how many times will they swing back and forth on subjects like this based on the latest study du jour

Just like the dietary fat thing- she loves me, she loves me not, she loves me...

Ha

[Midpack]

Stands to reason there's a limit at which 'too much of a good thing' becomes a factor. I can certainly believe excessive ultra marathoning (oxymoron?) could take a toll on the body and do more harm than good at some level. It's not new either, I remember Dr Ken Cooper (prominent at the time) in the 80's promoting "if you run further than 15 miles a week, you're doing it for reasons other than fitness."

From 1987

Quote:

Too many widows wrote and told me about so and so who followed my guidelines but had a heart attack. So I've broadened the fitness concept to make it one of moderation and balance. There are six components of wellness: proper weight and diet, proper exercise, breaking the smoking habit, control of alcohol, stress management and periodic exams. Second, you can run a good thing into the ground. I used to think that it didn't make any difference how far you ran if you had a good, strong musculoskeletal system and no underlying cardiovascular problems. Run ultramarathons if you want. Now I say that if you run more than 15 miles a week, it's for something other than aerobic fitness. Once you pass 15 miles, you do not see much further improvement. It takes a tripling of the number of miles to get any minimal improvement in oxygen consumption. And there's an exponential increase in injuries. So, again, moderation and balance. Once you get to 15 miles, you're at the 95th percentile level; you've got only 5 percent of potential left.

AN INTERVIEW WITH KENNETH COOPER - New York Times

[TromboneAl]

This goes along with the Body by Science ideas, and even puts aside stress injuries.

When I get back from a 6 hour bike ride, and feel all beat up, I always think "I sure hope this isn't bad for me." But the intensity is so much less than that of a run.

My current thinking:

Daily running of 30 minutes or more is not a great idea (I used to think it was).
Interval training is very good.
Walking-level intensity is good (I used to think it wasn't).
Weight training good.
Rest days (or just walk days) are good.

Quote:

Just like the dietary fat thing- she loves me, she loves me not, she loves me...

For me it's: She loves me, I love her, she loves me, I love her...

[TromboneAl]

I remember someone telling me that these Olympic-level athletes are not healthy people. They have gone way beyond the most effective dose.

[donheff]

I like recommendations that I like, like this one. The "good" ones fit my couch potato bias -- do some sprints and intense lifting for fitness and then just ride the bike for fun. Twenty minutes on the intense stuff works for me.

[grasshopper]

I run my daily 5k for the fun of it, take a couple of fat dogs with me and chase some jackrabbits and javelina's. I do find it to be the best way to keep the lbs off and the fitness level up.

[H2ODude]

Hmmmm. Will have to send link to DS who just did Comrades marathon in South Africa yesterday....56 miles! I did one regular ten years ago, box checked, no more thanks.

[Amethyst]

No doubt ultra-exercise is another one of those things where one's DNA [not to mention youth] makes a difference. Some folks are just born to be better athletes.

For most of us, moderate regular exercise seems to be good medicine.

Amethyst

[RunningBum]

Hmm, my first instinct is to dismiss this as crap, but I've heard before the safest thing is to train for a marathon but not run it. The training tends not to be at the same level as the race.

The problem I have is that if I don't run, I put on weight, and I just don't feel as good. I could find another activity or watch my diet better, but it's easiest to do something I enjoy and can stick with, and that's running. Right now I can't run because of a knee injury and I'm putting weight on. I am lifting weights and my PT has me doing something 1-3 hours a day, but it's still creeping up. So once I'm cleared to run again, I'll be getting back into marathons and ultras. Any risk from doing that is countered by the risks of losing the weight battle.

And for me, it can't just be the 20 miles a week as suggested in the article. I used to be a 10-20 mile/week runner, and I was putting on a pound or two per year. When I started marathon training and going to 40 or more, weight came off. A couple years ago I increased it to 55-60, and got down to my high school weight, and felt great. Which doesn't mean much if I've got hidden heart disease, but means a whole lot if I don't.

Another side to this is that many ultra runners have an addictive personality. I don't know the numbers vs. the general population, but I know of some recovered alcoholics and drug addicts who have replaced one addiction with a healthier one. And there are people like me who managed never to get addicted to anything too harmful, but the running addiction may have helped avoid it.

[TromboneAl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunningBum I used to be a 10-20 mile/week runner, and I was putting on a pound or two per year. When I started marathon training and going to 40 or more, weight came off. A couple years ago I increased it to 55-60, and got down to my high school weight, and felt great. .

Are you sure you didn't make any other changes? That is, when the weight came on, did you start running more and also, for example, cut down on desserts?

[clifp]

I former coach/friend of mine has done two duo-deca triathlons that is 20x ironmans over a roughly 2 week period. The crazy guy has now signed up for 30x ironman 72 miles of swimming, 3300+ miles of biking and 786 miles of running over a month.

He is 53 and is pretty much certifiably crazy.

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by clifp I former coach/friend of mine has done two duo-deca triathlons that is 20x ironmans over a roughly 2 week period. The crazy guy has now signed up for 30x ironman 72 miles of swimming, 3300+ miles of biking and 786 miles of running over a month. He is 53 and is pretty much certifiably crazy.

He must have been fun as a coach.

[RunningBum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TromboneAl Are you sure you didn't make any other changes? That is, when the weight came on, did you start running more and also, for example, cut down on desserts?

You're smart, Al. I actually did cut down on both portions and between meal snacking. I rarely do desserts anyway. The weight came off more quickly, but I definitely have seen weight come off with just running being the only change. What I should be doing now is going back to that diet while I'm less active, but the motivation hasn't been there. I had a specific goal in 2010 to drop weight and get faster to qualify for the Boston marathon, and once I did that I found it hard to maintain.

[donheff]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunningBum The problem I have is that if I don't run, I put on weight, and I just don't feel as good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RunningBum You're smart, Al. I actually did cut down on both portions and between meal snacking. I rarely do desserts anyway.

Harvard Health Blog today provides some info on why exercise may help with weight loss. Apparently it releases a hormone called Irisin which transforms white fat cells to energy producing brown fat cells. Drugs are quite a ways off. But couple the exercise with a reduction in sweets and you will be home free.

[Walt34]

All things in moderation. I still remember reading a study in the '70's or so in which scientists bought a bunch of steaks to analyze the fat content and found that (surprise!) steaks are high in fat and too much is bad for you.

The part that struck me though was that they were so concerned about the results of this study that they grilled and ate the remaining steaks.