Nice summary from Ways and Means on proposed changes to ACA released today...

[explanade]

I don't think any politician is doing to vote for taxing it any time soon.

But where is this idea that if they taxed health care benefits, they'd give the money to early retirees?

There would be a lot of claims on that money and early retirees would be far down the list, if on the list at all.

 

[Fermion]

It has NEVER been taxed.

Please pay for your own ER. Don't count on others to fund it.

But the person who is self employed and paying their own way for health insurance with after tax dollars is also paying for your employer provided tax free compensation healthcare insurance. Get it?

So you want those people to pay for your insurance but don't want to pay for others insurance?

Just to confirm here.

 

[travelover]

I don't think any politician is doing to vote for taxing it any time soon.............

I have heard this floated as part of a more comprehensive tax reform, in exchange for lower overall rates.

 

[Fermion]

I don't think any politician is doing to vote for taxing it any time soon.

But where is this idea that if they taxed health care benefits, they'd give the money to early retirees?

There would be a lot of claims on that money and early retirees would be far down the list, if on the list at all.

Yes, the amount of early retirees who are able to somewhat game the system and get some amount of subsidy is probably not even enough to populate a small town in South Dakota.

 

[Pilot2013]

You can get angry all you want...

I'm not angry, I just vehemently disagree with your apparent philosophy about what government is meant to do.

To me, government should collect money for very specific, and very basic things, and get out of the way for others to prosper... individuals, corporations, etc. for that is how advances occur. Based on that, I believe we DO earn our income, and have a responsibility to ourselves, and our families.

And no, I do not "hate" poor people, or disabled people, or people who have temporary setbacks like propagandists claim for Conservatives. I donate to charity (not just for the tax break, but because it's a way for me to CHOOSE how I help.

I don't want to see more government control of everything. And I certainly don't feel that I should bow down and HOPE that they let me keep a paltry amount of my earnings, so that those funds can be used IN PART to allow someone else who based on the ACA GAMES the system to get the most of someone else's money that he can, so he/she doesn't have to continue to work. Simple as that.

 

[explanade]

Also, the argument about taxing health care benefits is that those benefits contribute to health care cost inflation, because employer coverage doesn't require much out of pocket, so those services tend to get overused.

 

[Pilot2013]

But the person who is self employed and paying their own way for health insurance with after tax dollars is also paying for your employer provided tax free compensation healthcare insurance. Get it?

So you want those people to pay for your insurance but don't want to pay for others insurance?

Just to confirm here.

I am not sure how that person is paying for my company provided (self insured) healthcare? I guess I can't confirm.

And, I guess the self employed are not ALLOWED to work for another company, instead of being entrepreneurial and starting their own? They have the same decision that I have, they just made a different one. If they get large enough, they will also get the same break, right?

 

[Pilot2013]

Yes, the amount of early retirees who are able to somewhat game the system and get some amount of subsidy is probably not even enough to populate a small town in South Dakota.

Oh, ok. It's alright then.... So if I just take a LITTLE money from the bank without paying it back, it's not enough to worry about. I get it.

 

[Just_Steve]

It is really an issue of fairness. Why should Joe get health care tax free while his brother Jim, has to pay for his own health care with after tax dollars?

Sounds like health care envy.

 

[Texas Proud]

I'm not angry, I just vehemently disagree with your apparent philosophy about what government is meant to do.

To me, government should collect money for very specific, and very basic things, and get out of the way for others to prosper... individuals, corporations, etc. for that is how advances occur. Based on that, I believe we DO earn our income, and have a responsibility to ourselves, and our families.

And no, I do not "hate" poor people, or disabled people, or people who have temporary setbacks like propagandists claim for Conservatives. I donate to charity (not just for the tax break, but because it's a way for me to CHOOSE how I help.

I don't want to see more government control of everything. And I certainly don't feel that I should bow down and HOPE that they let me keep a paltry amount of my earnings, so that those funds can be used IN PART to allow someone else who based on the ACA GAMES the system to get the most of someone else's money that he can, so he/she doesn't have to continue to work. Simple as that.

First... it is not my philosophy.... I am just stating facts...

Fact: Gvmt says income is anything of value received and will be taxable...

Fact: the exception to the above is anything that the gvmt says is not taxable...

You want to make it seem like the gvmt should have no say if it should or should not be taxable since it has never been... I disagree with that thought process... however, my disagreement with that thought process has nothing to do with if I think it should or should not be taxed... in fact I have not said anything about what I think... so you are projecting on me something that I never said...

I also never projected on you that you hate poor people or disabled... I do not know where you got that from my posts...

 

[travelover]

Sounds like health care envy.

I am a beneficiary. My ex-employer gives me heath care insurance tax free, while others here have to pay for their health care insurance with after tax dollars. Even though I benefit, I see it as fundamentally unfair, a slight of hand in defining taxable income.

 

[Pilot2013]

I am a beneficiary. My ex-employer gives me heath care insurance tax free, while others here have to pay for their health care insurance with after tax dollars. Even though I benefit, I see it as fundamentally unfair, a slight of hand in defining taxable income.

And that's based on your employment decision.

My sister worked for the State, and get's a nice pension, and HI benefits as a result. She also earned less than my wife, who does a similar job but not for the state, and will not get the pension and HI benefit in retirement, also my wife's decision.

My point is, we get to decide these things, and reap a reward on one side of the decision, or the other, depending on what you CHOOSE as the reward.

 

[Ronstar]

It has NEVER been taxed....

Incorrect. I paid tax on my company provided health insurance premiums as mandated by the IRS.

 

[simple girl]

Please pay for your own ER. Don't count on others to fund it.

Yep, if you get a diagnosis that makes you uninsurable (if they bring back underwriting) - "thems the breaks." You don't get to retire early - unless you have enough money to self-insure.

This may end up being our reality, whether I like it or not.

We aren't looking for handouts, just the realistic ability to purchase health insurance on the private market.

It is what it is. Hopefully we will not be priced out of the market.

There are many people who would love to be in our predicament. Life is still good, and we are very fortunate!

 

[samclem]

Also, the argument about taxing health care benefits is that those benefits contribute to health care cost inflation, because employer coverage doesn't require much out of pocket, so those services tend to get overused.

That, and also since the companies get to pay for the health care with "before tax" money, there's more of it to spend, driving up the cost of HI and healthcare for everyone.
I've got no objection to companies paying their employees in dollars, housing, groceries, healthcare services, Chuck E Cheese tokens or S&H Green Stamps. But it's all compensation for the work done by the employee and the employee should pay tax on all of it.

 

[Fedup]

But the person who is self employed and paying their own way for health insurance with after tax dollars is also paying for your employer provided tax free compensation healthcare insurance. Get it?

So you want those people to pay for your insurance but don't want to pay for others insurance?

Just to confirm here.

I believe self employed people get to deduct health care. I'm planning to do it for my kid.

 

[Pilot2013]

Yep, if you get a diagnosis that makes you uninsurable (if they bring back underwriting) - "thems the breaks." You don't get to retire early - unless you have enough money to self-insure.

This may end up being our reality, whether I like it or not.

We aren't looking for handouts, just the realistic ability to purchase health insurance on the private market.

It is what it is. Hopefully we will not be priced out of the market.

There are many people who would love to be in our predicament. Life is still good, and we are very fortunate!

I agree! And hopefully there will (one day) be REAL change to HC COSTS, not just attempts at how to adjust premiums. I would like to have "realistic ability to purchase health insurance" as well, so that I can ER earlier than what the calcs say at present!

 

[travelover]

I believe self employed people get to deduct health care. I'm planning to do it for my kid.

But lots of people are not self employed but pay for their own health care - with after tax dollars. And they tend to be in lower paid jobs, a double kick in the butt.

 

[Just_Steve]

I would be all for being taxed on my HC benefit when everyones LTCG are taxed as well.

 

[Fermion]

I believe self employed people get to deduct health care. I'm planning to do it for my kid.

When my wife was a software contractor and we had to buy insurance on our own, I don't remember being able to deduct anything, but maybe it was subject to a floor?

 

[Fedup]

When my wife was a software contractor and we had to buy insurance on our own, I don't remember being able to deduct anything, but maybe it was subject to a floor?

Maybe you didn't know. But it's line 29 on form 1040. It's been there for years, pre ACA.

 

[Pilot2013]

I would be all for being taxed on my HC benefit when everyones LTCG are taxed as well.

Let's just send ALL INCOME to the government, and let them decide how much to spend, and how much to give back to the 300 million citizens...

 

[Fermion]

There are a lot of things you pay tax for that you don't really see a direct benefit. We were paying $2200 of our $5000 in property tax toward the local school system even though we did not have any kids. We also went to a private school not funded with government dollars.

(and before you say that we saw a benefit in our house price for the great school system, we took a $20,000 loss on our house over a 15 year ownership).

 

[Fedup]

But lots of people are not self employed but pay for their own health care - with after tax dollars. And they tend to be in lower paid jobs, a double kick in the butt.

Honestly, have doubt about these strawman arguments. If they are that poor, they pay nothing. The Torrance county hospital is the teaching hospital for UCLA medical students, there was a long line of people receive free healthcare. How do I know? My husband was taken there after he hit his head. I've met people who were care for diabetes and all sort of things. I think one of the failure of ACA is that even with subsidy there are still 29 million non-insure. Why? My guess is why should they pay when they get it free.

 

[Just_Steve]

Let's just send ALL INCOME to the government, and let them decide how much to spend, and how much to give back to the 300 million citizens...

That was sarcasm in case you didn't notice.