Not glamorous and somewhat under appreciated exercise

[Leonidas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewer12345 but I also add light weights in each hand (3 to 5 pounds).

I read an article (or heard a podcast) where a orthopedic surgeon mentioned that practice. It was great for his business, but terrible for your shoulders. If I can find the link I'll post it.

[eytonxav]

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Originally Posted by EwanRPark After 10 years in the leisure industry - I agree with you about the conceptII - great machine. BUT if you want to really tear your heart out - Cannot beat the versa climber - I used to use it to Destroy cocky SAS clients (army). Luvvit! Got some hints for the girls tooooo

I've heard positives about this piece of equipment, but isn't it rather expensive? Alhough it may not provide the upper body aspect, one could also find a nice ten story building and do several sets of ascents and descends in the stairwell for a pretty awesome workout that would also destroy most folks.

[Leonidas]

That is a wicked looking machine. I'm on a workout break this week because my gym is getting all new equipment. Would be nice to go in and see some of these around because I would like to try it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFW_M5 Alhough it may not provide the upper body aspect, one could also find a nice ten story building and do several sets of ascents and descends in the stairwell for a pretty awesome workout that would also destroy most folks.

I'm thinking the versa climber is both cardio and a full body workout - upper body included. A C2 is cheaper, but a gym membership is even cheaper - and they handle all the repairs.

An interesting aspect of the versaclimber is that its use can be adapted by people with injuries/disabilities who still want/need a workout. Not sure how that works, but that's a sales point and here's a video of Freddie Roach who can't run because of Parkinson's using the machine.

Freddie Roach loves training on his VersaClimber. - YouTube

[eytonxav]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonidas That is a wicked looking machine. I'm on a workout break this week because my gym is getting all new equipment. Would be nice to go in and see some of these around because I would like to try it. I'm thinking the versa climber is both cardio and a full body workout - upper body included. A C2 is cheaper, but a gym membership is even cheaper - and they handle all the repairs. An interesting aspect of the versaclimber is that its use can be adapted by people with injuries/disabilities who still want/need a workout. Not sure how that works, but that's a sales point and here's a video of Freddie Roach who can't run because of Parkinson's using the machine. Freddie Roach loves training on his VersaClimber. - YouTube

I can't see the video at work, but yeah my understanding of the versa climber is that you get kind of full body workout since you are replicating a climbing motion. I suppose the C2 also provides this as well, no?

[Leonidas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFW_M5 I can't see the video at work, but yeah my understanding of the versa climber is that you get kind of full body workout since you are replicating a climbing motion. I suppose the C2 also provides this as well, no?

I'm just guessing about the versaclimber - never been on one - you never really know about such things until you get on there and start sweating. It was that way for me with the C2 - I thought it was going to be easy until I sat my happy butt down and started rowing.

When I do it right, there is not a hardly a muscle group that isn't sore when I get done rowing. And for an aerobic workout, every other machine makes me work hard to get my HR into the training zone and keep it there (adjust tension, difficulty, elevation, etc) - but the C2 is the machine that I sometimes have to slow down on, or even take a break from, to get my HR back down into the training zone and out of the "I want to lay down and cry now" zone.

I wouldn't buy a versaclimber as long as the outdoors is free and/or my gym membership is still reasonable. But, if something was wrong with one of my limbs I might consider getting one (or joining a gym that has them) just to be able to do an aerobic workout.

I love exercising except when I'm actually doing it. But I value what the pain and discomfort bring, and I worked and worked-out with enough fitness fanatics (ex-SEALS, Delta Force, etc) to appreciate what a killer workout can do for fitness and health. When I see guys saying things like, "I hate this machine" while using it every day, it interests me. Not enough to buy one at those prices, but enough to see if I can't find one nearby and get a workout just to see what it's like.

[haha]

My Concept2 was delivered last evening. I had to be out all morning, so it isn't up yet but it looks to be a quick assembly. My gym does have the Versaclimber, so I have used it. Like Leonidas I heard it praised by special forces guys I met through my sons.

It would take up less space in my aptartment, but the thing is so punishing that I am afraid I would not use it regularly. With the C2 I can concentrate on form and this takes my mind off the effort and discomfort.

A guy who has tried almost everything, and knows well what he is talking about is Clarence Bass. He is about 70 and has been exercising hard for many years, and recording the whole trip with pictures on his website.

Last I read, his favoite two aerobics machines are the C2 and the Schwinn Air-Dyne. Both are pretty much indestructible, and the Air Dyne anyhow can often be found used. I don't like it that much, but he swears by it.

Ha

[bbbamI]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFW_M5 Should we call our ERF pinup girls (Sarah in SC, W2R, Simple Girl, and BBBAmI), Al's Angels?

Hooo Weeeee....just saw this post and the pic. How on earth did they find us together like that? .......

[W2R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha My Concept2 was delivered last evening. I had to be out all morning, so it isn't up yet but it looks to be a quick assembly.

Wonderful! Looking forward to reports and discussion about your new Concept2.

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Originally Posted by bbbamI Hooo Weeeee....just saw this post and the pic. How on earth did they find us together like that? .......

Amazing, huh?

[bbbamI]

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Originally Posted by W2R Amazing, huh?

Sure is.

Ya know, I still have a tan line from wearing that watch.

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFW_M5 I can't see the video at work, but yeah my understanding of the versa climber is that you get kind of full body workout since you are replicating a climbing motion. I suppose the C2 also provides this as well, no?

Yes, but quite different in feel. On the Versaclimber you are standing, and pushing and pushing above with the arms while you step. This pulling and pulling above the head is inherently hard and exhausting. Also there is no rest interval. In rowing in a boat, you pull then essentially rest while you glide forward to the next catch. Very similar rhythm and feel on the C2. Also, on the C2 you are mainly working legs and buttocks-( hip and knee extension on the power stroke, hip and knee flexion of the recovery; the back which must stabilize the lower and upper back to transmit hip power to the handle, and lats and shoulder stabilizers to finish the pullback with arms. If your form is good, the deltoids are not so active.

Another difference is the sound. The C2 is fairly pleasant sounding, with the fast whine of the hard pull, and trailing off a bit on the recovery. The VC sounds like someone sawing with a very short choppy stroke, and to me is pretty annoying.

I think if someone had one, and had the grit to hit it every day, he would become a strength and fitness monster. (If a woman did this I would be scared of her.)

If I had all kinds of money and space, I'd get one and try to approach it like I approach fixing dinner. I really don't want to, but I accept that I must.

It is not too hard to cruise for an hour or so on the C2, and throw in some fast intervals if you want. I am sure some NFL cornerback could tear up the Versaclimber for an hour, but count me out of that one!

I should give a short note on Model D setup. Very easy! Only one part has to be installed, using a total of 8 bolts going into very well machined holes. Then snap the front and back halves together, take the tape off the batteries in the monitor, and start rowing. One more note- get a pair of light weight gardening gloves. I started using my lifting gloves with the short fingers, but got blisters right where the fingers let off. With no gloves I will soon enough have callouses to file which is ok, but I think I'll just go with the golves as there is no performance issue.

Ha

[eytonxav]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha Yes, but quite different in feel. On the Versaclimber you are standing, and pushing and pushing above with the arms while you step. This pulling and pulling above the head is inherently hard and exhausting. Also there is no rest interval. In rowing in a boat, you pull then essentially rest while you glide forward to the next catch. Very similar rhythm and feel on the C2. .......Ha

Ha, thanks for the review. I have not had an opportunity to try either of these machines. I have seen a C2 and it looks like a well made piece of equipment, but that VersaClimber sounds like it may be too much exertion and the noise would also probably deter me.

I really have nothing at home for cardio, other than the local neighborhood streets for walking/jogging, but would like to add something for use during inclimate weather, especially since this last summer kept me in the house more than I would like.

At this point, I'm leaning toward buying a C2.

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFW_M5 Ha, thanks for the review. I have not had an opportunity to try either of these machines. I have seen a C2 and it looks like a well made piece of equipment, but that VersaClimber sounds like it may be too much exertion and the noise would also probably deter me. I really have nothing at home for cardio, other than the local neighborhood streets for walking/jogging, but would like to add something for use during inclimate weather, especially since this last summer kept me in the house more than I would like. At this point, I'm leaning toward buying a C2.

Try to get on one for a while if you can. Some people report back pain and you dont want a $1000 piece of equipment that you cannot use. If your gym does not have one, maybe a short trial somewhere else, even if it is not quite as handy. There is a short instructional video on the website, featuring a young woman with what appear to be close to the worlds longest legs.

Ha

[Amethyst]

Brewer, I agree about the benefits of hiking. Considering your moderate arthritis, do you use trekking poles (like ski poles, one in each hand, supposed to take the impact off one's hips and knees)? I tried to learn to use those, but just couldn't get used to having one in each hand. I use a walking stick instead.

Amethyst

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Originally Posted by brewer12345 As for walking outdoors, I find that hiking can be a really good workout, especially if you are going for some distance, are wearing heavy duty trail boots (heavy, so more work to take each step), and carrying a pack (even a light day pack with some water and emergency gear).

[brewer12345]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amethyst Brewer, I agree about the benefits of hiking. Considering your moderate arthritis, do you use trekking poles (like ski poles, one in each hand, supposed to take the impact off one's hips and knees)? I tried to learn to use those, but just couldn't get used to having one in each hand. I use a walking stick instead. Amethyst

I have one and it really helps on rocky/steep trails. Unfortunately, when I am juggling a day pack, one or two dogs, and sometimes a 5YO I do not usually have the free hand to use it. Oddly, arthritis does not bother me when hiking unless I either really overdo it or spend too much time standing still.

[eytonxav]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haha There is a short instructional video on the website, featuring a young woman with what appear to be close to the worlds longest legs. Ha

I'll check out the video, it sounds like something I would enjoy

[2soon2tell]

With a bum right shoulder I cannot do much weight training but do walk 4 - 5 miles a day with a longer walk on Sat am. I am training to walk the half marathon in Jan '12.

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2soon2tell With a bum right shoulder I cannot do much weight training but do walk 4 - 5 miles a day with a longer walk on Sat am. I am training to walk the half marathon in Jan '12.

No need to be shy about having walking as your main or only exercise activity. Cardiologist William Krause is doing a series of studies that seem to be coming down to the conclusion that for blood lipids, insulin resistance and various measurements that are intimately related to health, walking may be the very best activity, as long as you do enough.

The paper's last sentence is key- the benefits are related to the amount of exercise, not the intensity. When he first designed the trials, 4 groups were planned-low amount, low intensity, low amount, high intensity, and high amount low intensity and high amount high intensity. But the high amount low intensity group was dropped, thinking that it would take too much time to get good compliance with the study directives. Low amount was defined as 12 miles/week of walking or jogging (low intenstiy and high intensity respectively). The high amount was defined as 20 miles/week, which was only jogging as the high amount walking had been dropped. All participants did not necessarily walk or jog, but accomplished the "caloric equivalent" on a treadmill, elliptical trainer, or bicycle ergometer.

But his results showed that amount of exercise seem to matter more than the intensity, (or perhaps intensity did not matter at all, the study cannot not differentiate this) and likely time spent getting this amount, so further studies are contemplated with high amount, low intensity group added.

I have read every study he and his coworkers at Duke have done so far in this series, and it is my belief that anyone who is walking 4 or 5 miles/day every day is doing a lot for his metabolic health, very likely more than other more time sparing but intense practices would do. More miles would possibly be even better; his graphs do not show a rolling over in most of the metabolites measured, within the max of 20 miles per week that were chosen as "high amount".

Note that these studies show a decoupling between what we have come to call cardiovascular fitness and metabolic health. Early fitness research often focused on VO2 max, essentailly equating it to metabolic health. Dr. Ken Cooper casts a long shadow. This now appears to have been a confusion.

Ha