NY Times: the Financial Reality of Being Really Sick

[imoldernu]

We all have predilections... formed by personal experiences or from reading materials.

My own thoughts on this subject began with the reading of this short book about 70 years ago... Free to read online.

"A Modest Proposal" by Johnathan Swift.

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1080/1080-h/1080-h.htm

YMMV

[razztazz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by imoldernu We all have predilections... formed by personal experiences or from reading materials. My own thoughts on this subject began with the reading of this short book about 70 years ago... Free to read online. "A Modest Proposal" by Johnathan Swift. https://www.gutenberg.org/files/1080/1080-h/1080-h.htm YMMV

I remember that one, too

[Silver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivinsfan This opens up a whole different issue that is part of the problem. treated for 8 bouts of cancer until you end up disabled and broke and still you die. How does happen, is the medical profession so fixed on "we got this, let us try one more thing" that they lost sight of fact they are working with real humans? The fact that some of these cancer treatments leave you as a shell of a human and don't even cure the cancer... How did we get here?

We got here because health care in the U.S. is all about the money. It's a sellable commodity that is intentionally designed to be advantaged toward the seller.

[TwoByFour]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivinsfan This opens up a whole different issue that is part of the problem. treated for 8 bouts of cancer until you end up disabled and broke and still you die. How does happen, is the medical profession so fixed on "we got this, let us try one more thing" that they lost sight of fact they are working with real humans? The fact that some of these cancer treatments leave you as a shell of a human and don't even cure the cancer... How did we get here?

I agree that the medical-industrial complex is out of control but there is also a lot of pressure from families and the patient to not give up. People are always hopeful that they can turn the corner and beat whatever it is. So reining in over-zealous doctors has to start with the patient saying "no more".

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivinsfan This opens up a whole different issue that is part of the problem. treated for 8 bouts of cancer until you end up disabled and broke and still you die. How does happen, is the medical profession so fixed on "we got this, let us try one more thing" that they lost sight of fact they are working with real humans? The fact that some of these cancer treatments leave you as a shell of a human and don't even cure the cancer... How did we get here?

I do not blame just the medical profession. It's the patients too, who want to "fight" the incurable diseases no matter what costs.

Other countries have better control of the healthcare costs, because they know when it is hopeless and will not spend many 100K's to keep a terminal patient alive for another month. But here, people call that a "death squad".

[Bir48die]

I hope all had a good nights sleep last night dreaming of this discussion.

I am pretty neutral on this subject. I have been the recipient of great insurance and negotiated payments for my wife as she battled cancer for 15 years. I should have been bankrupt. Many things have changed since then on how health care is run.

Yes it's a game. Super high billings then the insurance companies pay some fraction. Medicare/Medicaid even less. You pay cash you get some huge discount.

Good health is many times a lottery win. Sure many of us have behaviors that cause us to need medical attention. Many just have bad luck and have a lifetime of pain.

I can't speak to each situation of the 1,495 people. Not sure what their jobs were, saving or spending habits. One of the first things I learned early in life was saving for an emergency. Wants vs needs.

I do know directly that some of my kids have benefited from the ACA and being subsidized. Though this system is greatly flawed there is ample opportunity for all to be insured if they sign up.

I was visiting my brother this weekend. We are at different ends of the political spectrum. Both of us agree that the system is flawed. We have different solutions. Both of us have good hearts.

Lastly I'm at the point where I've stopped reading a couple major papers. I don't put my head in the sand. I just feel I can't get a straight story from their reporters.

[Chuckanut]

We have a cost problem in medical care. Insurance premiums and rules are just a symptom.

[ivinsfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound I do not blame just the medical profession. It's the patients too, who want to "fight" the incurable diseases no matter what costs. Other countries have better control of the healthcare costs, because they know when it is hopeless and will not spend many 100K's to keep a terminal patient alive for another month. But here, people call that a "death squad".

I agree patients have a hand in it too but, compassionate medical care doesn't include literally treating people until they drop dead. IMO it's a cop out for doctors and hospitals to say " All I did was offer them a one in a million chance for a cure, not my fault they died a horrible death.

[NW-Bound]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivinsfan I agree patients have a hand in it too but, compassionate medical care doesn't include literally treating people until they drop dead. IMO it's a cop out for doctors and hospitals to say " All I did was offer them a one in a million chance for a cure, not my fault they died a horrible death.

If there's a lot of money to be made, it's hard to say no.

And when patients say "spend the money, doggone it" (which is not their own), well who wants to be the bad 3rd party to ask "for what?"

[Teacher Terry]

Ivansvan, this was over a period of 20 years so she was in remission for long periods of time and working for much of that. Her last bout she had early Alzheimer’s and her husband was dead so I didn’t treat the cancer. Her husband was trying to stay alive so he could take care of her and prevent her from going into a home.

[NW-Bound]

I followed the blog of a woman RV'er for her travel. Shortly after retiring early to take up RV'ing full-time, she discovered that she had uterine cancer. She was relieved when the doctors found out that it was only Stage I, and a hysterectomy followed by some treatments would take care of it.

Just about a year later when down in Mexico, she found herself with back pain, and thought she had some pinched nerves or a spinal problem. The Mexican doctor who performed the surgery told her that she had a metastasized tumor growing on her spine, and its tentacles were so entangled in her spine that he could not do much.

She went back to the US to pursue treatment, but knew it was going to be tough. After about 1 year or perhaps shorter, she informed her readers that the treatment did not work. Her doctors warned her that further treatments would prolong her life for some months, but at a very reduced quality of life. She decided to stop treatments, and to make the most of the few months she had left.

And so, she did spend those months to do some more travels, with the assistance of friends and relatives. Her blogs made little further mention of her disease, until her brother announced the bad news on her blog. She was in her mid 50s, if I remember correctly.

I hope to be as courageous as this woman when my time comes. Nobody lives forever, not even billionaires like Paul Allen and Steve Jobs.

[marko]

I'm surprised that the topic of CYA on the part of doctors vs lawsuits adding to extra tests, MRIs, second and third opinions etc hasn't come up yet.

[razztazz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marko I'm surprised that the topic of CYA on the part of doctors vs lawsuits adding to extra tests, MRIs, second and third opinions etc hasn't come up yet.

Brother went trough it. Mother went through it. The upshot is, the little secret nobody wants you to know is, it is nearly impossible to sue a doctor no matter the degree of indifference or incompetent. Like suing the police. The end.

The head of some insurance association back about 15 yrs ago said, at a conference, that even if a cap on malpractice payouts went into effect they wouldn't lower their rates because it wouldn't make any difference.

Second and third opinions? OK. Maybe sometimes somewhere somebody goes a little overboard but if it's serious why not? And I doubt this is what's running up the score. With the regularity doctors are wrong I can't see it as a universally bad thing

The waste of extra tests and needless medical interventions that is seriously running up the score on costs is disease invention. Treating cholesterol levels. Screening for everything to "lower your risk" whatever that is. They never say. The medical industry pimping fake risk, fake disease, unnecessary drugs. That's where the waste and avoidable costs are. Not suing doctors cause they ain't gettin' sued to any extent. The insurance industry says so. Not second opinions before they bore a hole in somebody's head or stick a reaming device into your heart. That ain't it.