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Old 02-12-2013, 01:00 PM   #41
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You certainly got a tough break Texas, and I would feel "screwed" if I was in same situation. If my individual plan closes and I am thrown into Obamacare, I won't feel screwed just "an economic loser". I have benefitted from an underwritten plan, and if I was on the opposite end of the spectrum being rejected and bullied by insurance companies, my opinion would be quite different. I am nowhere near the income subsidiary boundaries so I won't feel "screwed". However, the individual who goes a few hundred over the income limit and has to pay full freight, causing them to have less disposable income than somewhere tucked right under the barrier, in my opinion, has a valid right to be considered "screwed". A gradual phasing out instead of a cliff as many have mentioned before would take the sting out of it a bit.

I kind of agree... I was just throwing out a thought on the stmt of being screwed...

I feel that way also, but was wondering if that should be the case... the example of my mega was one.... another was the Cash for Clunker rebate... when I went to look at getting this, I was told it was gone... but they came out with more money and I used it...

But, my mom had bought the same car as I had within a month of when I bought mine... but she had a slightly smaller engine and did not qualify...

With this, I would not have felt screwed if I had not gotten the rebate... I would have felt that I just did not get in line fast enough..
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:03 PM   #42
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This is why creating "cliffs" in fiscal and entitlement policy is not wise, IMO -- you can find someone who "barely made it" and compare them to someone who just missed -- like someone who is 50.1 or 49.9, or someone who earns 399% of the poverty line instead of 401%. It makes it really easy for those to feel just on the other side to feel royally screwed.

It's why I don't like some of the entitlement reforms that want to draw a line and say (for example), "over 55 -- no change. Under 55 -- bear the full brunt of it" -- regardless of whether you are 24 or 54, and regardless of your financial circumstances.

It is a big deal if the difference is big, like we are discussing with the subsidy... (and like my mega health care)... the difference in that step is big... it is always better to have some kind of tapering of the loss.... but you almost always have to have some kind of step or end point...
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:04 PM   #43
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Many of us do not have access to a retiree health care plan. I had been planning "full freight" in my calculations.

For those who were counting on an employee subsidy for retirees, there can be a huge difference.

On the other hand, I personally wouldn't have counted on the subsidy in the first place since MegaCorp can give and MegaCorp can take away at any time.

"Screwed" therefore is in the eyes of the beholder. I feel bad for folks that had a benefit that may now be gone

Another way to state it, in Superbowl terms, "One person's obvious holding call is another person's proper non-call"

I too know someone who had a promised MegaCorp retiree health-plan but got taken away when the MegaCorp filed for bankruptcy. In his case, luckily he was old enough our just around the corner to qualify for Medicare.
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:04 AM   #44
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Yes - certainly more affordable than getting cancer and having to sell one's house to pay for treatments. And still having to go bankrupt eventually, like so many have.

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Why worry? After all, this is "The Affordable Care Act" we are talking about, right? So whatever it is, it has to be affordable, right? They said so.

-ERD50
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:05 AM   #45
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Yes - certainly more affordable than getting cancer and having to sell one's house to pay for treatments. And still having to go bankrupt eventually, like so many have.
+1000

Though I may pay more premium until 65, I will not fall into the black hole of losing all my life savings.
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:33 AM   #46
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+1000

Though I may pay more premium until 65, I will not fall into the black hole of losing all my life savings.
+1001
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Old 02-14-2013, 09:39 AM   #47
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Yes - certainly more affordable than getting cancer and having to sell one's house to pay for treatments. And still having to go bankrupt eventually, like so many have.
True, but then it should be called the "More Affordable For Some, Care Act". My point is, "more affordable" should refer to the overall costs, not some segment, and that is very questionable if it can achieve it's self-titled goal. Would the FCC allow that in an ad for a commercial product?

Of course I agree that I don't want to see a responsible person drowned in health care expenses. But that is separate from whether this Act will reduce overall costs or not. You are throwing in a Red Herring, and that is commonly done when one cannot address the actual issue at hand.

-ERD50
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Old 02-14-2013, 01:52 PM   #48
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+1000

Though I may pay more premium until 65, I will not fall into the black hole of losing all my life savings.
+1. The logic makes plenty of sense to me.

Those catastrophes happen to everyone else until it happens to me.
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:43 PM   #49
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If you sell off the principal, only the gain will be taxed. Maybe this isn't an option for you, I guess it depends what you mean by 'taxable sources'. My personal accounts (non-IRA) are in a 'taxable source', but only the distributions and gains from sales.

-ERD50
yes, I understand that , but for planning purposes I'm assuming that everything I draw is taxable. It probably wont be in which case I'll have an extra bit of money to play with each year.
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Old 02-14-2013, 03:47 PM   #50
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yes - certainly more affordable than getting cancer and having to sell one's house to pay for treatments. And still having to go bankrupt eventually, like so many have.
+1002 !
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Old 02-14-2013, 04:44 PM   #51
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I made a point. You made a point. We disagree on this topic. I just don't want to waste my time arguing with you on this topic, ERD50, and run the risk of getting this thread shut down.

Just remember one thing : while you spend time posting in these forums from the comfort of your home, I am the one who takes care of these patients' cancer and other conditions at free clinics. Until you do that, please don't be so judgmental and self righteous about 'responsible' vs 'non responsible' patients.

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Of course I agree that I don't want to see a responsible person drowned in health care expenses. But that is separate from whether this Act will reduce overall costs or not. You are throwing in a Red Herring, and that is commonly done when one cannot address the actual issue at hand.

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Old 02-14-2013, 05:24 PM   #52
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True, but then it should be called the "More Affordable For Some, Care Act". My point is, "more affordable" should refer to the overall costs, not some segment, and that is very questionable if it can achieve it's self-titled goal.
You make a valid point. Maybe not the most apt of names. The people being added to the roles of the "healthcare covered" will, on average, be poorer and less healthy than those currently on that list, so the average per-person cost is probably going to go up for those who pay their full share (plus part of the subsidy with their taxes). I hope that transparency and openness of the new health insurance market will help drive the price down some, but once the system is in place I hope there will be more opportunity to look for additional ways to drive costs down.
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Old 02-14-2013, 05:59 PM   #53
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True, but then it should be called the "More Affordable For Some, Care Act". My point is, "more affordable" should refer to the overall costs, not some segment, and that is very questionable if it can achieve it's self-titled goal. Would the FCC allow that in an ad for a commercial product?

Of course I agree that I don't want to see a responsible person drowned in health care expenses. But that is separate from whether this Act will reduce overall costs or not. You are throwing in a Red Herring, and that is commonly done when one cannot address the actual issue at hand.

-ERD50
+1

I think the big winners will be the insurance companies. While most of America waits to see how the details turn out the insurance guys are working feverishly figuring out how to make the most money possible from the ACA. Somebody will have to pay the extra money they will make.
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:05 PM   #54
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I made a point. You made a point. We disagree on this topic. I just don't want to waste my time arguing with you on this topic, ERD50, and run the risk of getting this thread shut down.

Just remember one thing : while you spend time posting in these forums from the comfort of your home, I am the one who takes care of these patients' cancer and other conditions at free clinics. Until you do that, please don't be so judgmental and self righteous about 'responsible' vs 'non responsible' patients.

People who truly do not want to waste their time arguing usually do not start the next sentence with "Just remember one thing".
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:30 PM   #55
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I think the big winners will be the insurance companies. While most of America waits to see how the details turn out the insurance guys are working feverishly figuring out how to make the most money possible from the ACA.
Certainly there will be more customers and more dollars flowing through the health insurance system. Let's hope the enhanced transparency being set up in the system will force the insurance companies to compete a little harder for the business, shaving margins in the process.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:12 PM   #56
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Covered California, the PPACA health exchange for California, has rolled out it's benefit plans and related information.


http://www.healthexchange.ca.gov/Doc...13%20FINAL.pdf

The exchange's home page: http://www.coveredca.com/

They put together a crude cost estimator, which will give a quote for a "Silver Plan" policy. A typical high deductible policy such as many of us use is more like a "Bronze Plan" policy. Costs look comparable to current Preferred Provider plans from Aetna, Blue Cross, etc for California residents. That is, ouch... But we're used to it. (They probably just loaded in the current prices of plans similar to the Silver Plan benefits.)

http://www.coveredca.com/resources/c...ting-the-cost/
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:54 PM   #57
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Let's keep it friendly, folks.

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Covered California, the PPACA health exchange for California, has rolled out it's benefit plans and related information.


http://www.healthexchange.ca.gov/Doc...13%20FINAL.pdf

The exchange's home page: Affordable Health Insurance | Covered California

They put together a crude cost estimator, which will give a quote for a "Silver Plan" policy. A typical high deductible policy such as many of us use is more like a "Bronze Plan" policy. Costs look comparable to current Preferred Provider plans from Aetna, Blue Cross, etc for California residents. That is, ouch... But we're used to it. (They probably just loaded in the current prices of plans similar to the Silver Plan benefits.)

Health Insurance Calculator | Covered California
Thanks for that link. After a quick look at the prices it seems they are in the same ballpark as Mass. Not a surprise.
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:22 PM   #58
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So I plugged in the # for the CA Covered Care and for a househould of 2, if I decide to quit my full time job, I need to ensure my part time job is less than $21k a year so I qualify for Medicare
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:29 PM   #59
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Tried different numbers on that CA Covered Care, it only had max OOP number and a monthly premium that was 1/12 of the max OOP.

Anyways, for those already FIRE'd how many are going to use these plans? Can't you withdraw just enough to stay under the limits for the max subsidy?

Of course, that means a lesser lifestyle than one might otherwise be able to afford, but LBYM and all that.
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:35 PM   #60
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If I can truely qualify for Obamacare aka getting free health insurance by making less than $21k a year, I am definitely going to quit this high stress job and work part time so I can get my personal life together!!! Thanks Obama!
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