Peripheral Neuropathy & Chiropractors

[TrvlBug]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mdlerth However, while the "manipulation" treatment was worthless, there was one therapy that provided some relief. She introduced me to Transcutaneous Electrical Nerve Stimulation (TENS). After 20 minutes of tiny shocks, my sciatic pain subsided for a while, long enough to walk with a reasonably normal step. Walking it off really was the cure. I did not return, and subsequently purchased a wearable TENS unit for less than the cost of a single DC visit. Lesson learned.

This, or something similar, is what our friend's parent is using to treat his neuropathy as well as healthy eating and other stuff. And he states it's helping him. The wellness center's seminar did mention some type of mechanical treatment as well as stem cell.

[Chuckanut]

A couple of quick thoughts from an unqualified layman.

Your hubby may not appear tp be overweight, but he might be one of those ok on the outside but fat on the inside people. He may have fatty liver where all the extra fat is inside around the organs and isn’t as obvious

In terms of food, I have been helped by the two books - Always Hungry and Always Delicious - for very tasty slow carb meals. Get them at the library and make sure to read Always Hungry. It’s an eye opener, and written by a Dr who has the Creds to be taken seriously. Beware that the recipes require a fare amount of time in the kitchen, so give yourself time to learn or it can be overwhelming. You can’t eat right on highly processed food from the store or most restaurants.

Needless to say beware of anybody who wants to sell you special supplements, cleanses, purges, high priced ultra pure coffee beans, milk from Venezuelan beavers, super food juices, etc.

[TrvlBug]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuckanut A couple of quick thoughts from an unqualified layman. Your hubby may not appear tp be overweight, but he might be one of those ok on the outside but fat on the inside people. He may have fatty liver where all the extra fat is inside around the organs and isn’t as obvious In terms of food, I recommend the two books - Always Hungry and Always Delicious - for very tasty slow carb meals. Get them at the library and make to read Always Hungry. It’s an eye opener, and written by a Dr who has the Creds to be taken seriously. Beware that the recipes require a fare amount of time in the kitchen, so give yourself time to learn or it can be overwhelming. You can’t eat right on highly processed food from the store or most restaurants.

Just ordered the books...thank you. Being retired I've got lots of time! I do tend to shop the outside aisles and we rarely eat out. I'm now just getting into roasting veggies (eating nothing but salad and steamed veggies is getting old). DH was a road warrior during his working years and hated the eating out part. Our problem is that we are both picky eaters so making good nutritious meals we both like can be a challenge. I told him we need to suck it up and learn to like the food that's good for us .

Wrt to DH's weight...ding, ding, ding. Fatty liver has been diagnosed and biopsied decades ago. He still gets blood tests for it.

[TrvlBug]

Good news. DH just advised that he thinks we should blow off the wellness center. $200 is cheap for the lesson learned .

[msieweke]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrvlBug Thank you for the links. DH has done a bit of research and we will do more. He also suffers from severe cramping which we suspect could be related. His mother, a non-diabetic, suffered from both all of her life.

I know this is a stretch, but cramping indicates a possible problem absorbing minerals. If the PN is B12-related, that's also an absorption problem. Both can be caused by low stomach acid. Hypothyroidism is a common problem of low stomach acid. The bad news is that it's challenging to get a proper diagnosis of hypothyroidism if your TSH is "normal". I've been down this road and had to self-diagnose.

[Montecfo]

I have PN. It is worsening in my feet, but is also in my hands. I have lost a meaningful amount of balance. It is not due to diabetes. It is due to a genetic condition.

I am a fan of my chiro but only for spine issues. if your PN is due to a pinched nerve, chiropractic could provide relief. In most cases people are describing, however, this is not the cause.

Traditional medicine can offer few answers. A diabetic can at least manage diet. For me, it is more getting adequate rest, B vitamins, and hoping for genetic cute at some point.

[Jerry1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by msieweke I know this is a stretch, but cramping indicates a possible problem absorbing minerals. If the PN is B12-related, that's also an absorption problem. Both can be caused by low stomach acid. Hypothyroidism is a common problem of low stomach acid. The bad news is that it's challenging to get a proper diagnosis of hypothyroidism if your TSH is "normal". I've been down this road and had to self-diagnose.

This is where my recommendation to see a holistic Dr. comes from. I was deficient in B12 and I’ve had thyroid issues, now under control. Also, after a few years of chelation, my heavy metals, especially mercury, a neurotoxin, are down to very low numbers. In fact, I’m due for my six month visit and a current metals test is on the agenda. Nothing stands out as the “one” particular issue, but overall, I’m getting some feeling back, slowly, but it is happening.

When I started addressing the PN, I was starting to feel numb in my hands and had been numb in my legs below the knees for some time (years). Now, I have no issues with my hands and my feet can at least feel when I’m on a cold floor. That is significant progress in my opinion. FWIW, the holistic Dr. doesn’t really focus on my PN. He focuses on my overall numbers and the improvement in PN is almost a byproduct of his care. When I first went to him I was having all kinds of problems that other drs couldn’t figure out. His initial focus was on my thyroid but as the name implies, his treatment is holistic. Seems good so far. My weakness is still my diet but he’s got me feeling better even with my level of noncompliance.

He asks me if I had a Ferrari would I put junk fuel in it. I’ve never said it, but being into cars, I probably wouldn’t put low octane gas in it, but I might try some high(est) octane racing fuel. . Diet is hard.

[Lucie]

As a Pain psychologist, I have worked with many excellent chiropractors, but none of them have been successful at reducing PN or other neuropathies.
Unfortunately, it it a matter of slowing the progression and managing the pain. There are good neurological medications that are very effective in reducing the pain. Many people are surprised to find how effective meditation and relaxation are for neuropathy. As an oversimplifiction, consider how the nervous system responds to stress, anger and anxiety. This excites the nervous system which increases the pain signals. By relaxing and calming the nervous system, pain signals are reduced. Circulation improves as well. (Again, an oversimplification), but very effective and no side effects. I teach a lot of relaxation to my patients and coaching clients with excellent results in pain reduction. There are a lot of good meditation recordings on youtube, but stay away from the ones that are for “pain management” or that focus on relaxing different body parts, as it will only draw the attention to the pain. He may also want to consider going to a reputable pain clinic.

I am willing to share more information, but am respecting the boundary of not giving medical advice.

[MRG]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucie As a Pain psychologist, I have worked with many excellent chiropractors, but none of them have been successful at reducing PN or other neuropathies. Unfortunately, it it a matter of slowing the progression and managing the pain. There are good neurological medications that are very effective in reducing the pain. Many people are surprised to find how effective meditation and relaxation are for neuropathy. As an oversimplifiction, consider how the nervous system responds to stress, anger and anxiety. This excites the nervous system which increases the pain signals. By relaxing and calming the nervous system, pain signals are reduced. Circulation improves as well. (Again, an oversimplification), but very effective and no side effects. I teach a lot of relaxation to my patients and coaching clients with excellent results in pain reduction. There are a lot of good meditation recordings on youtube, but stay away from the ones that are for “pain management” or that focus on relaxing different body parts, as it will only draw the attention to the pain. He may also want to consider going to a reputable pain clinic. I am willing to share more information, but am respecting the boundary of not giving medical advice.

I'm very interested in this. I've had prior long term pain and wish I knew this existed. I know I unintentionally made my bad experience worse by allowing my mind to focus on the pain.

Could you post a couple of what you consider good examples in utube. I'm familiar with some techniques but they focus on different body parts. Any book references would be very welcome also.

[TrvlBug]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRG I'm very interested in this. I've had prior long term pain and wish I knew this existed. I know I unintentionally made my bad experience worse by allowing my mind to focus on the pain. Could you post a couple of what you consider good examples in utube. I'm familiar with some techniques but they focus on different body parts. Any book references would be very welcome also.

I am also very interested. DH and I are looking into refresh diabetes classes at our medical clinic and also any pain management/relaxation classes they might offer. DH said his neurologist has suggested pain meds, however, in general, he doesn't have ongoing pain. His main issue is the numbness in both feet with occasional pain which I'm sure will get worse over time.

[dixonge]

My parents both have PN, due to either medication side effects, Type II diabetes, or both.

My wife used to have diabetes and was on a basic dose of Metformin for awhile. Her A1AC was over 10! But she no longer has diabetes. We were very fortunate to have discovered an actual reversal plan from Newcastle University in the UK, which she promptly dove right in and tried for herself. Anyone can try it, although the usual admonition applies about talking to your doctor, blah, blah...


https://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/researc...licinformation


Here's my summary of it:

• Initial discovery came about because a lot of gastric bypass patients had normal blood sugar within 1-2 weeks of their surgeries
• One possible cause was changes in gut flora
• Another was the extreme diet restriction
• The Newcastle diet is based on this, and has proven successful in about 70% of the cases (that is from memory)

So my wife did 800 calories per day for eight weeks. She monitored her daily sugar and it was normal within 2-3 weeks. She stayed on metformin during the diet, because as it turns out it is also an appetite suppressant! After the diet, she stopped taking the pills and immediately began testing her glucose at 1 and 2 hours after eating. She got normal responses no matter what she ate.

That was five years ago. Her latest bloodwork is all perfectly normal, including her blood sugar. Her doctor was very elated!

[eytonxav]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dixonge My parents both have PN, due to either medication side effects, Type II diabetes, or both. My wife used to have diabetes and was on a basic dose of Metformin for awhile. Her A1AC was over 10! But she no longer has diabetes. We were very fortunate to have discovered an actual reversal plan from Newcastle University in the UK, which she promptly dove right in and tried for herself. Anyone can try it, although the usual admonition applies about talking to your doctor, blah, blah... https://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/researc...licinformation Here's my summary of it: Initial discovery came about because a lot of gastric bypass patients had normal blood sugar within 1-2 weeks of their surgeries One possible cause was changes in gut flora Another was the extreme diet restriction The Newcastle diet is based on this, and has proven successful in about 70% of the cases (that is from memory) So my wife did 800 calories per day for eight weeks. She monitored her daily sugar and it was normal within 2-3 weeks. She stayed on metformin during the diet, because as it turns out it is also an appetite suppressant! After the diet, she stopped taking the pills and immediately began testing her glucose at 1 and 2 hours after eating. She got normal responses no matter what she ate. That was five years ago. Her latest bloodwork is all perfectly normal, including her blood sugar. Her doctor was very elated!

Over what period of time was your wife's A1C in the diabetic range? I've heard of some instances where people rose across the diabetic threshold, but they took action in terms of exercise and diet and returned to virtually normal readings. But I wonder if one has been in the diabetic range for a longer period of time if this is possible.

[audreyh1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFW_M5 Over what period of time was your wife's A1C in the diabetic range? I've heard of some instances where people rose across the diabetic threshold, but they took action in terms of exercise and diet and returned to virtually normal readings. But I wonder if one has been in the diabetic range for a longer period of time if this is possible.

It’s worthwhile to read about this Newcastle research. They discuss such issues I believe.

[Lucie]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRG I'm very interested in this. I've had prior long term pain and wish I knew this existed. I know I unintentionally made my bad experience worse by allowing my mind to focus on the pain. Could you post a couple of what you consider good examples in utube. I'm familiar with some techniques but they focus on different body parts. Any book references would be very welcome also.

I’m out of the country at a conference at the moment so I don’t have access to the specific YouTube recordings or book titles. You could start by searching for “meditation” or “relaxation” and “guided imagery” on YouTube, which guides you through a pleasant scene (e.g., the beach, forest or favorite memory). They tend to focus more externally than internally on the body.

I make audio recordings of the meditation/hypnosis for my patients but tell them to add to their list with YouTube. They also have a lot of good recordings for anxiety and insomnia, both typical byproducts of chronic pain.

[MRG]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucie I’m out of the country at a conference at the moment so I don’t have access to the specific YouTube recordings or book titles. You could start by searching for “meditation” or “relaxation” and “guided imagery” on YouTube, which guides you through a pleasant scene (e.g., the beach, forest or favorite memory). They tend to focus more externally than internally on the body. I make audio recordings of the meditation/hypnosis for my patients but tell them to add to their list with YouTube. They also have a lot of good recordings for anxiety and insomnia, both typical byproducts of chronic pain.

Thank you very much. Enjoy the conference.

[dixonge]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFW_M5 Over what period of time was your wife's A1C in the diabetic range? I've heard of some instances where people rose across the diabetic threshold, but they took action in terms of exercise and diet and returned to virtually normal readings. But I wonder if one has been in the diabetic range for a longer period of time if this is possible.

Hard to say. Initial symptom was a toenail fungus. Normal range is 4-5.6%. Her first test showed 10+%. She took metformin for a couple of years before doing the Newcastle diet. So she wasn't just in that medium warning zone. However, she wasn't on Metformin for years and years either.


I've seen varying results, but in general the longer you are in full-blown diabetes, the less likely you'll get full reversal, but it's a sliding scale. The longer you wait, the more you shift your odds. But reversal is possible for a lot longer than was previously thought.

[eytonxav]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dixonge I've seen varying results, but in general the longer you are in full-blown diabetes, the less likely you'll get full reversal, but it's a sliding scale. The longer you wait, the more you shift your odds. But reversal is possible for a lot longer than was previously thought.

That is what I was thinking. I was a pre-diabetic for many years in the low 6 range before crossing the threshold, but after losing weight through diet and exercise I have been in the 5.4-5.8 range over the past 10 years. I suspect the Newcastle approach would probably not work for someone like me after all those years being a near diabetic. I was pretty stupid and did not head my Drs warnings.