Personal Responsibility for Healthcare?

[athena53]

Let me throw out another observation on this: while I agree that some people might change their behavior to avoid financial penalties or get breaks on their premiums, there are many countries where health care is "free" (well, my friends on FB call it that but it's buried in what people pay in taxes) but people are still healthier than we are on average. I'm thinking mostly of Scandinavian countries.

What can we learn from them? Their habits and diets are healthier than ours and it's not because of any "skin in the game" other than the realization that healthy habits keep everyone's costs low.

 

[FIREmenow]

Let me throw out another observation on this: while I agree that some people might change their behavior to avoid financial penalties or get breaks on their premiums, there are many countries where health care is "free" (well, my friends on FB call it that but it's buried in what people pay in taxes) but people are still healthier than we are on average. I'm thinking mostly of Scandinavian countries.

What can we learn from them? Their habits and diets are healthier than ours and it's not because of any "skin in the game" other than the realization that healthy habits keep everyone's costs low.

Fish.

 

[athena53]

Fish.

That's part of it, I know. Sadly, I saw a lot of Jimmy John's, Dunkin' Donuts and Pizza Huts in Iceland. Our bad habits are being exported.

 

[mickeyd]

even if they can’t pay, and even if they've made some bad choices.

Not sure that I agree with this. If I can't pay for something, I deny myself that item or delay purchasing it until I can afford it. As for bad choices, that's all on me.

 

[bclover]

Lol. I did not read all 8 pages but quick question, if I get sick and didn't do the personal log and stuff, do I not get care as a punishment??

 

[MichaelB]

Lol. I did not read all 8 pages but quick question, if I get sick and didn't do the personal log and stuff, do I not get care as a punishment??

The answer to your query is somewhere in those 8 pages. Read every post and you will find what you seek.

 

[Tadpole]

Yes, rewarding good/lucky genes will improve the "natural" selection that was lost when civilization evolved.

 

[2HOTinPHX]

I propose a fast food tax like on cigarettes....everyone stopped smoking right...LOL

 

[Midpack]

And yeah I know, supply and demand. Doesn't change the fact that responsibility should be biased way more on the supply chain than demand IMO. Even more so when you consider that most of the consumers wanting all that cheap junk food can't afford or don't know better because that's all they can easily find.

Even though there's mountains of information on diet, nutritional info, healthy eating, exercise, etc.? There can't be anyone left who hasn't been exposed to all this many, many times. And if I was obese, I might do something to understand why before blaming it on everyone but myself.

Less than 10% of the population is medically obese, IOW they'd need superhuman effort to avoid being overweight. And that used to be about the % of Americans who were obese. Now it's over three times that - so about 2/3rds of Americans are choosing to be obese, whatever the reason(s).

If advertisers and food purveyors have gotten so good at getting us to make unhealthy choices, why has the percent overweight (men & women) remained relatively unchanged while obesity has tripled? Why does all that slick irresistible advertising have no affect 70% of the population?

 

[redduck]

+1000

Even on this board with so many "well to do" members, there are many discussions about managing income to avoid going over ACA limits. Imagine if the entire country had to "pay" for their care or insurance. All of a sudden lifestyle choices would have a cost associated with them, and in general people would try and figure out a way to lower those costs.

I don't understand why the word "pay" is in quotes. (highlighted by redduck). And, furthermore...

There may be lots of threads about ACA limits, but there are also a whole bunch of threads about people spending beyond there means, not figuring out how to save sensibly, etc. (and these threads attract a lot more responses than those regarding ACA limits). I'm guessing that people in general are NOT going to try to figure out a way to lower those insurance costs.

 

[travelover]

I don't understand why the word "pay" is in quotes. (highlighted by redduck)..........

Maybe it would make more sense to say "pay directly". Having the cost hidden in reduced pay from employers has probably contributed to the runaway inflation of health care.

 

[Midpack]

Maybe it would make more sense to say "pay directly". Having the cost hidden in reduced pay from employers has probably contributed to the runaway inflation of health care.

And ultimately those costs are buried in all the products and services we all buy, employers and public institutions aren't eating any of it. Everyone who thinks their health care is just the (often paltry) premiums they pay their employer and any out of pocket costs is kidding themselves to be kind. Health care in the USA costs about $9,000 per person - and we're all paying every dime of it, we just don't see most of it directly. We pay considerably more than any other country and WAY more than the average - all while getting poorer outcomes (longevity, infant mortality, etc.) than about 2/3rd of the other countries. This info has been shared on this forum and elsewhere countless times...

 

[GTFan]

If advertisers and food purveyors have gotten so good at getting us to make unhealthy choices, why has the percent overweight (men & women) remained relatively unchanged while obesity has tripled? Why does all that slick irresistible advertising have no affect 70% of the population?

Again, poverty leads to poor healthy choice availability. And we're not all on the right side of the bell curve.
For the non-poor that have tons of healthy choices, yeah I'd say the blame is equal on both sides.

 

[travelover]

........This info has been shared on this forum and elsewhere countless times...

And as I've pointed out several times, it is laughable, given the per capita cost, that we seemingly know so little about where the money goes and what the logical steps are to contain it. These discussions always seem to degrade into single solution explanations, like "doctors make too much money" or "illegals are over running emergency rooms for free care" or "drug companies are profiteering". Maybe it is a complex issue and needs a well thought out and studied, nonpartisan, solution.

 

[Midpack]

And as I've pointed out several times, it is laughable, given the per capita cost, that we seemingly know so little about where the money goes and what the logical steps are to contain it. These discussions always seem to degrade into single solution explanations, like "doctors make too much money" or "illegals are over running emergency rooms for free care" or "drug companies are profiteering". Maybe it is a complex issue and needs a well though out and studied, nonpartisan, solution.

We agree there...though there are plenty of decent studies, all ignored by legislators and the public for the most part. We throw up all the exceptions and that derails the discussion, we ‘let the perfect kill off the good’ and let less than good stand.

 

[travelover]

We agree there...though there are plenty of decent studies, all ignored by legislators and the public for the most part.

Amen. I guess we'll continue to ignore it until costs are more than we can bear.

 

[Huston55]

We agree there...though there are plenty of decent studies, all ignored by legislators and the public for the most part. We throw up all the exceptions and that derails the discussion, we ‘let the perfect kill off the good’ and let [-]less than good[/-] appallingly crappy stand.

FIFY.

Instead of ‘throwing up all the exceptions’, perhaps we should ‘throw out the politicians.’

 

[Pilot2013]

I propose a fast food tax like on cigarettes....everyone stopped smoking right...LOL

Maybe not, and therefore we should all have to pay for their stupidity?

My Corp started 4 years ago with a 5 % surchage to smokers on insurance premium. each year it has increased, and is now a 20% surchage. You can bet your a$$ there has been a significant increase in taking advantage of the company provided free smoking cessation programs and medications. WIN/WIN in my book.

 

[redduck]

Maybe not, and therefore we should all have to pay for their stupidity?

Well, yes--because there doesn't seem to be any actionable alternative.

My Corp started 4 years ago with a 5 % surchage to smokers on insurance premium. each year it has increased, and is now a 20% surchage. You can bet your a$$ there has been a significant increase in taking advantage of the company provided free smoking cessation programs and medications. WIN/WIN in my book.

And, the people in your corp are a true cross-section of The United States?

 

[audreyh1]

If advertisers and food purveyors have gotten so good at getting us to make unhealthy choices, why has the percent overweight (men & women) remained relatively unchanged while obesity has tripled? Why does all that slick irresistible advertising have no affect 70% of the population?

Huh? Why isn’t it worse?

Obesity rate has tripled.

I think your chart is missing the healthy weight and underweight populations. I think we can safely assume those added together have dropped considerably.

Anyway I think it’s getting worse faster.

 

[Midpack]

If advertisers and food purveyors have gotten so good at getting us to make unhealthy choices, why has the percent overweight (men & women) remained relatively unchanged while obesity has tripled? Why does all that slick irresistible advertising have no affect 70% of the population?

Huh? Why isn’t it worse?

Obesity rate has tripled.

I think your chart is missing the healthy weight and underweight populations. I think we can safely assume those added together have dropped considerably. Agreed.

I must be missing your point. I noted obesity rate has tripled. What I was pointing out was the simply overweight category has remained stable over the same period obesity has tripled, even declined slightly for men. If insidious ads are increasing obesity as some (not me) have suggested here, why hasn’t it worked on any other group, all others are stable or down?

 

[audreyh1]

I must be missing your point. I noted obesity rate has tripled. What I was pointing out was the simply overweight category has remained stable over the same period obesity has tripled, even declined slightly for men. If insidious ads are increasing obesity as some (not me) have suggested here, why hasn’t it worked on any other group, all others are stable or down?

The stability simply indicates that as overweight individuals moved into obese, then those were replaced by normal healthy weight individuals moving into overweight. It doesn’t matter if the overweight category itself has remained fairly stable, some of those must be what used to be healthy weight individuals because so many have moved on to become obese and extreme obese.

Looks like in the men you had around 50% overweight and obese in the 60s. Now it looks like you have around 75% overweight, obese, and extreme obese.

So in the 60s around 50% of men used to be normal/healthy weight or underweight and now only 25% are.

 

[Hermit]

... I was offered a similar incentive to reduce my cholesterol but since statins had once given me awful tendinitis I passed up that one...

Would you have to go before a panel of government doctors to keep your Medicare or similar system in this type of case?

 

[Pilot2013]

Well, yes--because there doesn't seem to be any actionable alternative.

Sure there is.... it was defined by Darwin.

And, the people in your corp are a true cross-section of The United States?[/B]

Well, they range from South Carolina, Texas, Kansas, and Virginia. I'd say a pretty good cross-section.

 

[athena53]

Would you have to go before a panel of government doctors to keep your Medicare or similar system in this type of case?

Of course not. In my case, I was offered extra Wellness Program points if I lowered my cholesterol. I chose not to because my body doesn't like statins.

I'd never advocate denying coverage to people who don't take measures to improve their own health, but I see no problem with offering positive reinforcement to people who do.