Scary news about vaping health risk

[joeea]

So your reasoning is that their lifestyle justifies taxing them more?

Is vaping a "lifestyle"?

If so, yes - tax them more.

 

[joeea]

Vaping was assumed to be the safe way to smoke.

No, not safe, safer - there is a difference.

Drinking quarts of vodka while driving a car might be safer than drinking quarts of moonshine while riding a motorcycle. That doesn't make it safe.

 

[joeea]

Did Juul know the consequences and put it on the market anyway?

LOL!

I'm sure they are shocked!

 

[joeea]

There are some pretty yummy edibles that are out there in my neck of the woods (and yes...it's legal here...smack dab in the middle of flyover country!)

True. Kids just love yummy edibles.

 

[Senator]

But their shorter lives consume more healthcare.

I have heard that Smokers actually use less healthcare. They do not live as long, a they do not linger at the end. Certainly they use less Social Security.

A non-smoker lingers far longer and uses more healthcare.

 

[NW-Bound]

I have heard that Smokers actually use less healthcare. They do not live as long, a they do not linger at the end. Certainly they use less Social Security.

A non-smoker lingers far longer and uses more healthcare.

Sounds like vapers use even less healthcare, and no SS at all.

Perhaps we should subsidize this activity.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Fly boy, what I have been told about edibles is that it’s hard to control your high. So you can end up much higher than intended. With smoking you can feel it and know when to stop. It’s legal here.

Like other things in life, it's all about moderation and portion control.

Accurate packaging (including levels of THC) is helpful, too.

 

[Teacher Terry]

I won’t touch the stuff but when I went to the dispensary for CBD ointment for my knee saw lots of older people.

 

[OldShooter]

But their shorter lives consume more healthcare.

Actually, my recollection of the tobacco trials is that by dying earlier, the net health care cost for smokers is the same or less than for non-smokers. But for some reason that evidence was not permitted at trial.

My memory may be wrong but I don't think so because I was struck by the illogic at the time.

 

[aja8888]

I have heard that Smokers actually use less healthcare. They do not live as long, a they do not linger at the end. Certainly they use less Social Security.

A non-smoker lingers far longer and uses more healthcare.

Not all smokers. My DW is a classic example of a long term smoker who had a hell of time giving up cigarettes and finally did so after many rounds of patches, Nicoderm, etc. at age 60. She now has COPD and is on oxygen, but functions pretty well, as long as she is breathing 3 liters of oxygen per minute constantly and taking her meds.

Because of this disease, she (we) has "spent" (though Medicare and private insurance), hundreds of thousands of dollars and is on a dozen meds with one med costing ~$1,000 per month (OOP). We alone have spent a small fortune outside of insurance keeping her breathing and somewhat mobile.

My wife could easily make 80 (she's now 74) which would put her at the top of the longevity curve of her 8 siblings and other older family members. I don't recall any parent, uncle, aunt, cousin, sibling of hers living past 80.

 

[OldShooter]

Not all smokers. ...

Glad to hear your DW is surviving well, but the plural of "anecdote" is not "data." It is the statistical data we are talking about here.

 

[aja8888]

Glad to hear your DW is surviving well, but the plural of "anecdote" is not "data." It is the statistical data we are talking about here.

Well then, let the Senator present some...

 

[Beststash]

I went from joints to a vape after my NHL diagnosis because of the mouth sores during chemotherapy - I'll never go back. I use a "dry herb" vaporizer that does not burn the flower. It uses convection heating with no direct contact between the herb and the heating element. I found that around 385° is just about right to vaporize the THC and CBD. Combustion actually occurs around 445°. No throat irritation, virtually odorless, no smoke (a slight hint of the vapor that looks kinda like smoke). It made what would otherwise been a very negative experience tolerable.

I don't want to highjack this thread - but the Feds should reconsider its classification of cannabis as a Schedule 1 drug to allow more research on the drug to take advantage of what I think are many benefits of both THC and CBD.Only then can we separate opinion from actual science.

 

[MRG]

People have been vaping for 15+ years, millions of them. Suddenly 100+ have died and more have serious lung damage. This just started being reported.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Glad to hear your DW is surviving well, but the plural of "anecdote" is not "data." It is the statistical data we are talking about here.

Well, here's some DATA for you:

In 2015, 3.2 million people died from COPD worldwide, an increase of 11.6 percent compared with 1990. During that same time period, the prevalence of COPD increased by 44.2 percent to 174.5 million individuals. In the United States, an estimated 16 million adults have COPD.

https://www.healthline.com/health/copd/facts-statistics-infographic#1

You don't get COPD on a Monday and then are dead 4 days later. It's a long, drawn out process (watched both my parents die of it, I can tell you more if you like) that is very expensive to treat and right now, it's the 4th leading cause of death in the United States. Sure, you don't have to be a smoker to get COPD, but a very large % were/are smokers.

FACTS.

 

[NW-Bound]

People who do not die of COPD are going to die of something else. Nobody lives forever.

So what is the cheapest disease that people are going to die of? My guess would be heart attack, or a stroke.

Caveat: I stopped smoking cigarette 13 years ago. Never get interested in MJ or vaping.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Seems like many of the carts were from illegal sources.

Speaking of which ...

A fourth person has been charged in what prosecutors say was a massive counterfeit THC vape cartridge operation run out of a Kenosha County condominium and a Union Grove real estate office.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/2019/10/04/vaping-woman-charged-wisconsin-brothers-thc-cartridge-operation/3861483002/

 

[OldShooter]

Well, here's some DATA for you: ...

Irrelevant data, actually. But I understand that you feel that DW's good luck can be extrapolated to all of society. Neither is the basis for a rational discussion. Have a nice evening.

 

[Senator]

Well then, let the Senator present some...

Here you go. Smoking lowers healthcare costs, and adding in the tax revenues and SS savings, it is a great deal.

Smoke em if you got em!

RESULTS
Health care costs for smokers at a given age are as much as 40 percent higher than those for nonsmokers, but in a population in which no one smoked the costs would be 7 percent higher among men and 4 percent higher among women than the costs in the current mixed population of smokers and nonsmokers. If all smokers quit, health care costs would be lower at first, but after 15 years they would become higher than at present. In the long term, complete smoking cessation would produce a net increase in health care costs, but it could still be seen as economically favorable under reasonable assumptions of discount rate and evaluation period.

CONCLUSIONS
If people stopped smoking, there would be a savings in health care costs, but only in the short term. Eventually, smoking cessation would lead to increased health care costs.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199710093371506

 

[Elbata]

With all things, if overdone, it proves fatal. I recently had surgery and prescribed opiates for pain. Quite enjoyable and got rid of the pain. I didn't use them all, saving the rest for future use. Being older, I don't see how recreational use (perhaps once/twice per year) is a bad thing.

 

[harley]

Gummies

 

[Rianne]

I went from joints to a vape after my NHL diagnosis because of the mouth sores during chemotherapy - I'll never go back. I use a "dry herb" vaporizer that does not burn the flower. It uses convection heating with no direct contact between the herb and the heating element. I found that around 385° is just about right to vaporize the THC and CBD. Combustion actually occurs around 445°. No throat irritation, virtually odorless, no smoke (a slight hint of the vapor that looks kinda like smoke). It made what would otherwise been a very negative experience tolerable.

I don't want to highjack this thread - but the Feds should reconsider its classification of cannabis as a Schedule 1 drug to allow more research on the drug to take advantage of what I think are many benefits of both THC and CBD.Only then can we separate opinion from actual science.

I don't know about all that preparation, but currently, 5 members of my immediate family use CBD. Forget prescriptions, too many side effects and harm to the organs. We have inherited rheumatoid arthritis in our family. Also have a healthy consumption of alcohol. A drop or two of CBD under the tongue or in candy has helped with a lot of pain. And helps sleep.

 

[MRG]

Gummies

I'm going to start making my own. They work great, had a bug for a week and they allow me to sleep for hours. I don't like the cost @$50 for a 1000mg. A quarter oz is $25 out the door and contains more than 1000mg. Add in some jello and you are good.

 

[joeea]

Glad to hear your DW is surviving well, but the plural of "anecdote" is not "data." It is the statistical data we are talking about here.

Nobody had presented any statistics. So clearly we were talking about many anecdotes here.

The plural of anecdote is anecdotes.

BTW, your quote "the plural of anecdote is not data" is incorrect. See: Don't forget: The plural of anecdote is data

 

[6miths]

And Senator's 'data' is not really hard scientific evidence. This paper uses life table analysis and makes many assumptions. It is not a 'study' per se but rather a thought exercise. Baseline assumptions can dramatically change the results of the analysis. This was pointed out in a subsequent piece in the NEJM that pointed out that the authors had not included the cost of several conditions that are more common in smokers than non-smokers and their inclusion would have increased the cost of care for smokers and resulted in different conclusions. Off-hand, one can also see that they did not account for any effects of second-hand smoke and the costs involved or other costs related to smoking.