Scary news about vaping health risk

[MichaelB]

This news about vaping injury and health consequences is really starting to grow. Reports now indicate over than 1000 cases and 18 deaths. Apparently doctors are finding significant damage to the lungs, usually associated with THC but always associated with vaping.

The CDC web page on this https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_information/e-cigarettes/severe-lung-disease.html

Here’s one report from The Verge https://www.theverge.com/2019/10/3/20897560/vaping-lung-injury-toll-cdc-investigation-fda-deaths

More than 1,080 people have come down with a serious lung injury related to vaping, as government researchers continue to investigate the cause of the outbreak. That’s an increase of 275 reported cases since last week.
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“The data that we’re getting does not suggest this has peaked. It doesn’t suggest this is declining.” The CDC also announced that there have now been 18 deaths related to the outbreak. Researchers found that about 70 percent of individual injuries were to male patients, and 80 percent were to patients under age 35. The deaths were a different story — people who died in the outbreak were older, ranging in age from 20s to 70s, with an average age of 49.5. Women also make up a larger proportion of the fatal cases, but investigators cautioned that, with just 18 reported deaths, it was too early to draw conclusions from the data.

The Mayo Clinic released a report earlier this week which is quite worrying https://newsnetwork.mayoclinic.org/...e-caused-by-toxic-chemical-fumes-study-fines/

Researchers reviewed lung biopsies from 17 patients, all of whom had vaped and were suspected to have vaping-associated lung injury. The study was the first to examine a group of biopsies from patients with lung injury due to vaping. Researchers found no evidence of tissue injury caused by accumulation of lipids — fatty substances such as mineral oils — which has been suspected as a possible cause of the lung injuries associated with vaping.

"While we can't discount the potential role of lipids, we have not seen anything to suggest this is a problem caused by lipid accumulation in the lungs. Instead, it seems to be some kind of direct chemical injury, similar to what one might see with exposures to toxic chemical fumes, poisonous gases and toxic agents," says Brandon Larsen, M.D., Ph.D., a surgical pathologist at Mayo Clinic Arizona, and a national expert in lung pathology.

A few states tax vaping products the same as cigarettes, but most do not, so there is strong demand. The FDA began regulating e-cigarettes in 2016. This will be a tough nut to crack.

 

[OldShooter]

This is scary to you personally ? Why?

 

[HadEnuff]

Has there been a study, or even a conversation, comparing the damage to lungs from vaping to the damage from smoking, either regular tobacco, or THC products?

I think it's scary. I don't vape, but with the increasing legalization of pot, I am sure vaping THC products is on the rise.

 

[MRG]

Seems like many of the carts were from illegal sources.

 

[MichaelB]

This is scary to you personally ? Why?

Why is this a worry?

A number of forum members smoke cigarettes or consume cannabis. Some probably vape, others may be considering doing so. In addition, the CDC reports indicate most of the deaths and severe health risks have affected older adults, which describes many of us.

There was a thread discussion earlier this year on vaping, and it presented a different picture, with less concern about health and safety. The thread is here.

So, this makes it of interest to some community members and worthy of a new discussion in the health forum. There is still much to know, so this could end up an overblown scare or real health risk.

Anything that can affect the overall health of the population is also a legitimate topic of discussion.

Personally, I don’t smoke anymore, and wouldn’t consider vaping until it can be proven harmless. Right now the default is that it’s harmless until shown otherwise.

 

[OldShooter]

Why is this a worry? ... this makes it of interest to some community members and worthy of a new discussion in the health forum. There is still much to know, so this could end up an overblown scare or real health risk.

Anything that can affect the overall health of the population is also a legitimate topic of discussion. ...

As you like. To me this is just a typical news media kerfluffle, justifying "scary" headlines concerning a statistically insignificant problem. 1000 sick people and some deaths is not even in the CDC Vital Statistics roundoff error: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr68/nvsr68_09-508.pdf And the problem is almost certain to go away as attention is focused on it.

As is typical of the US media and the US population, this click-bait "news" takes prominence over the serious health problems in the world, like tuberculosis, malaria, and HIV/AIDS. But most of the people with those diseases are the wrong color to engender much interest in the US.

So, not to insult, but to suggest perspective.

 

[HadEnuff]

I know very little about vaping. But what I see when I see folks vaping is a lot of vapor, all of which has been exhaled from the lungs. It looks to me like a lot of particulate compared to, say, two hits from a joint, or even burning a cigarette.

My uneducated guess is they will find that it is all of the ancillary stuff they put in there to make it a more gratifying experience, than just the "active" ingredients of nicotine or THC. These could be additives that give the vape its flavor, or increase the volume and density of the "smoke".
It may well be that if used strictly as a delivery system for nicotine or THC, it is safer than inhaling something that has been burned.
I hope they figure out what exactly is in the product that makes it so toxic, and not necessarily throw out the whole technology, because, face it, folks are going to smoke if that's what they have to do to get the nicotine or the THC they want.

 

[NoMoreJob]

Personally, I don’t smoke anymore, and wouldn’t consider vaping until it can be proven harmless. Right now the default is that it’s harmless until shown otherwise.

Isn't this usually the case, especially when it comes to things that we like or want for whatever reason? We tell ourselves that there's no harm done not because we know it but because there isn't any proof (that we know of) showing otherwise. Then we go on our merry way until the harm can no longer be ignored.

Don't we all know that it's probably not healthy to regularly put large amounts of foreign substances into our bodies? Even those things that are good for us (food) or can help us with specific problems (medications) will do us harm if overdone.

People will always be people so I doubt this will ever change.

 

[NoMoreJob]

Here's the next thing we know nothing about but will be assumed to be 'better.'

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/04/business/iqos-us-launch/

 

[Senator]

At least the people that are dying from vaping, are doing what they love until the end.

 

[RobbieB]

I'm not scared.

 

[joeea]

At least the people that are dying from vaping, are doing what they love until the end.

As long as the products are taxed enough to pay for the additional healthcare burden imposed on society, I think competent adults should be free to kill themselves using whatever means they choose.

 

[Rianne]

Vaping was assumed to be the safe way to smoke. My neighbor who desperately wanted to quit smoking found vaping as the answer. The variety and flavors made it fun and attractive to young people. Yes, this is scary. Did Juul know the consequences and put it on the market anyway?

The question is: if you're addicted (like my neighbor) to vaping, can you quit with these revelations? Makes me think of the benefit without warning of opioids. Who knew?

 

[Senator]

As long as the products are taxed enough to pay for the additional healthcare burden imposed on society, I think competent adults should be free to kill themselves using whatever means they choose.

With cigarettes, they are a tax saving proposition. If enough people smoked, Social Security would be saved. Smokers, and hopefully vapors, just do not live as long.

 

[Gumby]

As long as the products are taxed enough to pay for the additional healthcare burden imposed on society, I think competent adults should be free to kill themselves using whatever means they choose.

Oddly enough, so do I. Although there can be externalities other than direct healthcare spending

 

[MissMolly]

As long as the products are taxed enough to pay for the additional healthcare burden imposed on society, I think competent adults should be free to kill themselves using whatever means they choose.

So your reasoning is that their lifestyle justifies taxing them more? What about obese people? Hang gliding? SCUBA diving? Mountain climbing? Drinkers of alcohol? People who drive fast? Skateboarding? Riding motorcycles? Football players? Boxers? Eaters of red meat? People who like bacon? All of these activities/lifestyles can be considered dangerous not only to the participant, but in some cases to bystanders. Do we start taxing all of them for the additional danger they present to society? Can anybody say that they never ever do anything that doesn't present a certain level of danger to themselves or others?

 

[Gumby]

In market capitalism, the cost of all externalities should be included in the price of the product, so that people can make proper economic choices and resources can flow to their highest and best use. It's the theory behind carbon taxes and taxes on sugared soda. You're taking away an artificial distortion of the supply and demand curve, so that the proper amount of the product is produced at the proper price.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Vaping was assumed to be the safe way to smoke.

You know what they say about "assume"

To me, common sense tells me that vaping is a bad idea. You are inhaling a mysterious substance into your lungs...something that isn't supposed to be there. Odds are that making that choice may not be the best idea. How many years did people thing that smoking was a wise, even healthy choice? Even then common sense should have told you it was a bad idea.

When I was 5 years old stuffed in the backseat of an old Mustang choking and rubbing my red, watery, burning eyes while my Mom and Dad puffed their lungs away on nasty ass Pell Mell cigarettes...I KNEW that it was a bad idea. Vaping is no different to me.

And to the detractors who say things like "it's my lungs, I can destroy them if I want to!"...that's fine, but don't expect the [-]government[/-] me to pay for your healthcare.

 

[Teacher Terry]

I know people that vape and have been warning them. Young people have died. I know one person that decided just to smoke joints instead.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

. I know one person that decided just to smoke joints instead.

This strikes me as odd these days. A lot of states have legalized marijuana and there are so many ways to enjoy (or medicate) with weed that doesn't involve stinking up your house and burning the crap out of your lungs. There are some pretty yummy edibles that are out there in my neck of the woods (and yes...it's legal here...smack dab in the middle of flyover country!)

 

[Rianne]

You know what they say about "assume"

To me, common sense tells me that vaping is a bad idea. You are inhaling a mysterious substance into your lungs...something that isn't supposed to be there. Odds are that making that choice may not be the best idea. How many years did people thing that smoking was a wise, even healthy choice? Even then common sense should have told you it was a bad idea.

And to the detractors who say things like "it's my lungs, I can destroy them if I want to!"...that's fine, but don't expect the [-]government[/-] me to pay for your healthcare.

That's fair. The bigger picture is addiction. I can (and I have) complain about the lady that's clearly obese buying all frozen dinners and twinkies in front of me at the grocery store. My tax $$ are paying for her diabetes and heart disease. She may not know better, she may be addicted to sugar and salt.

I sure don't have answers to any of this. But I do have empathy for those who can't control some behaviors. I like these people. They're my friends and family. Don't get me going on alcohol. But I love them and am sorry for their pain.

 

[Senator]

I know people that vape and have been warning them. Young people have died. I know one person that decided just to smoke joints instead.

That's a terrific idea, as getting smoke in your lungs must be healthy. I think Lance Armstrong credited smoking pot to all his Tour de France wins.

You have to go sometime, why not go early?

 

[Teacher Terry]

I certainly didn’t say it was a great idea. I have seen people die from COPD and have never smoked anything in my life. Probably less risky than vaping.

Fly boy, what I have been told about edibles is that it’s hard to control your high. So you can end up much higher than intended. With smoking you can feel it and know when to stop. It’s legal here.

 

[joeea]

With cigarettes, they are a tax saving proposition. If enough people smoked, Social Security would be saved. Smokers, and hopefully vapors, just do not live as long.

But their shorter lives consume more healthcare.

 

[joeea]

Oddly enough, so do I. Although there can be externalities other than direct healthcare spending

Agree. Those should be taxed in as well.