Study casts doubt on need for many heart procedures

[omni550]

"The results [from a well-run study] challenge medical dogma and call into question some of the most common practices in heart care. They are the strongest evidence yet that tens of thousands of costly stent procedures and bypass operations each year are unnecessary or premature for people with stable disease."

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...need/40629657/

omni

[Teacher Terry]

I read about this yesterday on another forum. Definitely best to avoid surgery if possible.

[Masquernom]

I just recently discovered that statins have been implicated in lowering testosterone and gynecomastia in men. I need to do more research, but it's a bit concerning.

[gerntz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masquernom I just recently discovered that statins have been implicated in lowering testosterone and gynecomastia in men. I need to do more research, but it's a bit concerning.

Funny how you post this immediately after a major study shows the benefits of statins over stents.

[bloom2708]

From the mid 90s on multiple doctors have written books and documentaries on the benefits of a "whole food, plant based" diet.

Time and time again people who adopt this lifestyle halt and reverse heart disease, type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol.

It is slowly gaining traction. After 2 weeks people see marked improvement. Documentaries like "Forks over Knives" and "Food Choices" and "PlantPure Nation" and "The Game Changers" are readily available.

YouTube has wonderful videos from cardiologists and adopters.

To most, it just doesn't matter, food is pleasure. Meat, cheese, milk, dairy, eggs. These are the staples of every meal. 91% of the diet of Americans comes from these groups + processed foods. 9% is split between fruits, vegetables and starches.

For years, everyone on both sides of my family are slowly (or quickly) killing themselves with food choices. I am sad. It is sad.

A stent may save your life. Bypass may save your life. If you don't change your lifestyle/what you eat/drink, it doesn't matter. You can bypass the bypasses. Re-stent the stent. If you just take a pill and keep eating meat, dairy and eggs, you will be right back in the same boat or dead.

[aja8888]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bloom2708 From the mid 90s on multiple doctors have written books and documentaries on the benefits of a "whole food, plant based" diet............ A stent may save your life. Bypass may save your life. If you don't change your lifestyle/what you eat/drink, it doesn't matter. You can bypass the bypasses. Re-stent the stent. If you just take a pill and keep eating meat, dairy and eggs, you will be right back in the same boat or dead.

People are different. My BIL lived the meat and dairy lifestyle and had a heart transplant at 75. I lived the same lifestyle and at 76 years old, my cholesterol is normal, my A1c is 5.2 and my heart and arteries are working well and clear.

Go figure...

[Z3Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aja8888 People are different. My BIL lived the meat and dairy lifestyle and had a heart transplant at 75. I lived the same lifestyle and at 76 years old, my cholesterol is normal, my A1c is 5.2 and my heart and arteries are working well and clear. Go figure...

Could you be saying to choose your parents well?

[aja8888]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z3Dreamer Could you be saying to choose your parents well?

Yeah, that's probably it..

[razztazz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bloom2708 "whole food, plant based" diet..

Now all they have to do is define without equivocation exactly what "whole food" and "plant based" means. I have never heard it done. It's marketing like "All natural!" "Lite" "New and improved."

[braumeister]

Quote:

Originally Posted by razztazz Now all they have to do is define without equivocation exactly what "whole food" and "plant based" means. I have never heard it done. It's marketing like "All natural!" "Lite" "New and improved."

Yes, and there are also a great many doctors who would disagree with just about everything in that post. So maybe it's best for all of us to not be quite so dogmatic about this stuff, m'kay?

Mkay.jpg

[bloom2708]

Don't worry, I'm not trying to convince anyone to eat better.

I am an anti-influencer. I can't convince people in my direct and indirect family to eat better.

Can you see health? Because someone makes it to 75 are they healthy? Does normal weight = healthy? Do a small minority have some genes that can buck the trends? Yes.

My grandmother lived to 107.5. Her husband died at 70 after many heart attacks. He refused bypass surgery in 1983 and died a few days later. They ate similar diets.

My dad had 2 heart attacks and quadruple bypass at 69. He stopped smoking but eats terrible. His smoking cravings went into fat/salt/sugar/meat cravings. He is 74 now. Likely a ticking time bomb for another heart attack. Will he change? Nope. Loves him some meat, dairy, cheese and eggs. Butter on everything.

The keto fad is sad as well. Eat bacon and cheese for all meals and lose weight! Great does losing weight equate to health? Nope. My sister does keto.

Remember that people don't want advice, they want confirmation. Advice is for losers.

The good thing is people can do research, read, watch documentaries, follow doctors and make their own choices. Are things working for you? If it works at 30, 40, 50, what will be the ramifications in 60s and 70s? All those paper cuts add up and catch up faster than we hope.

Food is much more controversial than finances, politics and religion combined. Onward we march...

[bloom2708]

Quote:

Originally Posted by braumeister Yes, and there are also a great many doctors who would disagree with just about everything in that post. So maybe it's best for all of us to not be quite so dogmatic about this stuff, m'kay? Attachment 33072

Whole food, plant based is very well defined after all the years. It is only complicated to people who hate it. I understand that.

There is always a scientist paid by one of the big lobby's to support the vices. I'm ok with that as well.

Mkay.

[imoldernu]

Several years ago, I was diagnosed with AFIB....

The drug of choice Xarelto, has a retail price of about $550, and the typical discount price is about $100 less. A One month Supply.

After the initial several months, I decided to find out a little bit more about AFIB, and found out that there are different categories.

Since I have never had symptoms, (except for the irregular heartbeat) I found that it is called "persistent AFIB". I looked back about 25 years, and found that I had what was called a "heart murmur"... hmmm.

I now take a low dose aspirin. Have absolutely no symptoms, and the only way to tell, is thru use of a stethescope.
.................................................. .................................................. ..

To add a point... When you watch drug commercials on TV, and see that there is a reduction in risk of 75%... take a look at the risk... The original risk % for that health problem is 1.6%... so the actual risk by using the new drug, goes from 1.6%, down to .4%.

[razztazz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bloom2708 Whole food, plant based is very well defined after all the years. It is only complicated to people who hate it. I understand that. .

Untrue statement. Untrue in it's definition status and untrue implying I hate it and therefore am being a hard-ass here.

There is no one source or definition that is the truth, the life, and The way. YOUR SOURCES use a definition. And that's what you choose to go with. Yes, then there's only one. Others use other definitions including several doctors I have approached on this subject. And as usual some had multiple definitions. Who should I believe? Doctors to whom I have spoken and personal experiences? Or the man on Youtube? That's not snarky, that's a real 21st century conundrum.

I actually do all those things and have for decades but with these diet gurus and "current medical thinking" and "latest studies show" types no matter what you're doing you're doing it wrong. (But it's been known to The Those Behind The Green Door for years...?) Various exercise regimens get the same treatment. That's why I am skeptical.

[bloom2708]

So, you still have the heart murmur, just no symptoms? Is that good or bad? Even the daily aspirin has been recommended, debunked, recommended and now who knows if it does anything. I guess at 84 you just keep rolling. Even at 84 you can eat better.

My father-in-law is 77. He has a myriad of health issue and takes a dozen medications. He wants to know what causes it. I said the food you eat. He laughed. To his generation there is zero correlation between food and health issues. Every meal has meat, cheese and milk. No exception.

Selfishly I want my family and friends to be healthy and eat better and not die. Most have probably been to a funeral lately for someone who was "too young". Even 70 to me is much too young.

Sometimes you have to use a sniff test/sanity test. People love that you can now eat all meat and cheese and lose weight. This confirmation of vices is dangerous. I know what eating one big meal of salt, fat, cholesterol and sugar does to the blood and body. Now imagine doing that for every meal. Crazy world.

[bloom2708]

Quote:

Originally Posted by razztazz Untrue statement. Untrue in it's definition status and untrue implying I hate it and therefore am being a hard-ass here. There is no one source or definition that is the truth, the life, and The way. YOUR SOURCES use a definition. And that's what you choose to go with. Yes, then there's only one. Others use other definitions including several doctors I have approached on this subject. And as usual some had multiple definitions. Who should I believe? Doctors to whom I have spoken and personal experiences? Or the man on Youtube? That's not snarky, that's a real 21st century conundrum. I actually do all those things and have for decades but with these diet gurus and "current medical thinking" and "latest studies show" types no matter what you're doing you're doing it wrong. (But it's been known to The Those Behind The Green Door for years...?) Various exercise regimens get the same treatment. That's why I am skeptical.

With the virtue of selfishness, I personally don't care what you eat. Sorry.

I would like my family and friends to not die early.

If you eat from the 4 groups, vegetables, fruits, whole grains and legumes it is pretty hard to not understand that. Nuts and seeds depend on your health and goals. After a stent or heart attack, nuts, seeds, nut butters, are out.

No skin off my teeth. Bacon for every meal. What could go wrong?

https://nutritionstudies.org/whole-f...ed-diet-guide/

[chassis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bloom2708 From the mid 90s on multiple doctors have written books and documentaries on the benefits of a "whole food, plant based" diet. Time and time again people who adopt this lifestyle halt and reverse heart disease, type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol. It is slowly gaining traction. After 2 weeks people see marked improvement. Documentaries like "Forks over Knives" and "Food Choices" and "PlantPure Nation" and "The Game Changers" are readily available. YouTube has wonderful videos from cardiologists and adopters. To most, it just doesn't matter, food is pleasure. Meat, cheese, milk, dairy, eggs. These are the staples of every meal. 91% of the diet of Americans comes from these groups + processed foods. 9% is split between fruits, vegetables and starches. For years, everyone on both sides of my family are slowly (or quickly) killing themselves with food choices. I am sad. It is sad. A stent may save your life. Bypass may save your life. If you don't change your lifestyle/what you eat/drink, it doesn't matter. You can bypass the bypasses. Re-stent the stent. If you just take a pill and keep eating meat, dairy and eggs, you will be right back in the same boat or dead.

This. Family member recently had a stent procedure. Based on the person's past behavior, this will likely have no influence on diet or exercise choice.

"Doc's got me on some good meds!" sigh