When Friends Ask: Where do you get your protein?

[marty]

http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/apr/dairy.htm

[CyclingInvestor]

I think he is missing a major point. Most of us are not
omnivorous because we think that vegetarian diets
will result in protien imbalances - but because . . .

meat tastes good !

[boathole]

I've been a vegetarian for over 30 years (more than half my life!). I could have retired years earlier if I had a dollar for every time someone asked me where I get my protein.

In all these years, I still don't have a good answer!

I find it ridiculous that someone who has never studied nutrition (only someone ignorant of nutrition would even ask such a question) and probably eats junk food would question me on my eating habits. My usual answer is that I've been a vegetarian for over 30 years and I haven't had a problem yet!

I don't point out what people eat and tell them all the things wrong with it or ask them if they get enough fiber or vitamins. Why are people so concerned about my protein intake?

My guess is that someone who has chosen to not eat meat challenges their morality and their first response is to suggest that it is unhealthy.

Oh, and another thing, eating chicken or fish doesn't make on a vegetarian. If I had a dollar...

Ray

[OKLibrarian]

Couple years back I was a vegetarian for about 6 months. Lost a good bit of weight (currently re-losing), felt healthier, and generally have a lot of respect for folks who could pull it off long-term. Ultimately I had some personal stuff come up that left me drowning my sorrows in cheeseburgers, and also I just got tired of trying to be a vegetarian while sharing my home with an omnivore. I've been thinking about getting back on the wagon, at least on weekdays, but not exactly sure how I'll pull that off.

[Joss]

"In all these years, I still don't have a good answer!"

Why do you need one?

If I asked you what methods of foreplay you and your spouse/partner enjoy most, would you feel compelled to answer that as well? I ask this because I'm trying to illustrate that a question such as this is impertinent. It deserves NO answer.

SO, if we accept that there actually ARE such things as impertinent personal questions... we also accept that we are not obligated to answer every d*mn personal question some mannerless idot feels like asking.

How about, "My dietary habits are none of your business."

[WM]

Maybe I just haven't been vegetarian long enough to be bothered by it, but I don't see it as a big deal when people ask. I've been eating mostly vegan (occasional eggs or dairy, mainly in other people's baked goods) for about three years or so and I don't find that most people are obnoxious about it. I assume they're asking because they've believe what they've learned in school or in the media that you can't be healthy without meat and dairy. Heck, until relatively recently, those were two of the four food groups! (Food politics, anyone?)

Most people don't make a formal study of nutrition, and if you have to rely on just what you read in the news, it's no wonder everyone is confused. Even the nutritionists don't seem to agree.

So when they ask, I don't take it personally. I just say my protein comes mainly from beans, but most foods have some protein and it's actually not that hard to get enough.

[Outtahere]

Quote:

Originally Posted by WM I assume they're asking because they've believe what they've learned in school or in the media that you can't be healthy without meat and dairy. Heck, until relatively recently, those were two of the four food groups! (Food politics, anyone?)

That reminds me of the first time I told my parents I had become a vegetarian. My stepmom blurted out "But you HAVE to eat meat!". I think most people don't understand you can get protien other ways. I have never had anyone ask me where I get my protein, when they find out I'm a vegetarian they shrug and say oh... that's it, no other comments.

[samclem]

I didn't realize some vegetarians were so defensive about this. I would not have thought it offensive to ask a vegetarian this question. We do need protein, and we need it to be complete protein. That's something that is easy if we eat meat, and requires more work if we don't.

If someone told me they were going to an all-meat diet, I'd ask them how they intended to get fiber and many plant-based vitamins. If someone told me they were just going to eat foods that started with the letter "Z", I'd ask them if they could tell me why and if there were any nutritional pros/cons. It wouldn't be judgemental, just trying to learn.

[CyclingInvestor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by samclem I didn't realize some vegetarians were so defensive about this.

The vegetarians I have known (including one good friend) are all defensive about it.
My friend says it is because so many people ask them stupid questions, usually when
eating out in a group and they order meatless meals. Currently the debate topic seems
to be whether humans are natural omnivores or natural vegetarians.

[HFWR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyclingInvestor The vegetarians I have known (including one good friend) are all defensive about it. My friend says it is because so many people ask them stupid questions, usually when eating out in a group and they order meatless meals. Currently the debate topic seems to be whether humans are natural omnivores or natural vegetarians.

Observe the teeth for the answer...

[marty]

"Observe the teeth for the answer..."

1.A carnivore's teeth are long, sharp and pointed. These are tools that are useful for the task of piercing into flesh. Omnivore's (meat and plant eaters) teeth are similar to that of carnivores. Man's, as well as other herbivore's teeth are not pointed, but flat edged. These are useful tools for biting, crushing and grinding.

2.A carnivore's jaws move up and down with minimal sideways motion. The jaw motion of an omnivore is similar. These are tools that are useful for the tasks of shearing, ripping and tearing flesh and swallowing it whole. Omnivores swallow their food whole and/or with simple crushing. Man's, as well as other herbivore's jaws cannot shear, but have good side to side and back to front motion. These are tools that are useful for extensive chewing, crushing and grinding of grains and other high fiber foods. Animal flesh cannot be crushed, ground and chewed with the tools Yahweh gave man without some degenerating process such as cooking or frying.


3.A carnivore or omnivore's saliva does not contain digestive enzymes. Man's, as well as other herbivore's saliva is alkaline, containing carbohydrate digestive enzymes.

4.A carnivore's stomach secretes powerful digestive enzymes with about 10 times the amount of hydrochloric acid than a human or herbivore. The pH is less than or equal to "1" with food in the stomach, for a carnivore or omnivore. For humans or other herbivores, the pH ranges from 4 to 5 with food in the stomach. Hence, man must prepare his meats with laborious cooking or frying methods. E. Coli bacteria, salmonella, campylobacter, trichina worms [parasites] or other pathogens would not survive in the stomach of a lion.

5.A carnivore's or omnivore's small intestine is three to six times the length of its trunk. This is a tool designed for rapid elimination of food that rots quickly. Man's, as well as other herbivore's small intestines are 10 to 12 times the length of their body, and winds itself back and forth in random directions. This is a tool designed for keeping food in it for long enough periods of time so that all the valuable nutrients and minerals can be extracted from it before it enters the large intestine.

6.A carnivore's or omnivore's large intestine is relatively short and simple, like a pipe. This passage is also relatively smooth and runs fairly straight so that fatty wastes high in cholesterol can easily slide out before they start to putrefy. Man's, as well as other herbivore's large intestines, or colons, are puckered and pouched, an apparatus that runs in three directions (ascending, traversing and descending), designed to hold wastes that originally were foods high in water content. This is so that the fluids can be extracted from these wastes, now that all the useful nutrients and minerals have been extracted and the long journey through the small intestine is over. Substances high in fat and cholesterol that have been putrefying for hours during their long stay in the small intestine tend to get stuck in the pockets that line the large intestine.
7.Animal flesh, composed of the most highly complex type of protein that exists, requires vast amounts of uric acid to process. Uric acid is released into the system in amounts necessary to break proteins down into amino acids. Uric acid is a toxic substance responsible for the aging process and must be flushed out and dealt with. That is one of the jobs of the liver. In relative terms, a carnivore's liver is a tool designed with the capacity to eliminate ten times as much uric acid as the liver of man or other plant eater.

8.A predator has a gait, large paws and claws, which enable him to hunt, chase and trap his prey. These are tools meant to kill. Man's gait, as well as other herbivore's is designed only for mobility. Examine your hand, fingers and fingernails. Is this an apparatus properly designed for catching, trapping, killing and ripping apart cattle, hogs, chicken and fish? How does this work for picking fruit from trees or harvesting vegetables? The foods your hands were meant to gather are typically, high in water content, high also in fiber to sweep the wastes out of those intestines, and collectively contain every vitamin and mineral necessary to sustain human life.

9.A carnivore's frame of mind is totally geared for hunting and killing. Man's frame of mind is compassionate, friendly and reveres life. When the lion spots another furry animal, something might instinctively click in his head that tells him to hurry up and get dinner. When man spots a furry animal, rather than show his children how to take its life and eat it, a more likely instinct is to pull over, get the camera out and take a picture. Put a young baby chick and an apple in a crib with a six-month-old baby. What will he instinctively attempt to eat and play with?

10. Man is not a natural hunter. Every predator, in order to go hunting, MUST be hungry. Man cannot go hunting if he IS hungry! He must have a meal first. Hunger must precede a predator to go hunting. Hunger must follow man's desire to go hunting, it cannot precede it.

[CyclingInvestor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by trunk "Observe the teeth for the answer..." 1.A carnivore's teeth are long, sharp and pointed. These are tools that are useful for the task of piercing into flesh. Omnivore's (meat and plant eaters) teeth are similar to that of carnivores. Man's, as well as other herbivore's teeth are not pointed, but flat edged. These are useful tools for biting, crushing and grinding. 2.A carnivore's jaws move up and down with minimal sideways motion. The jaw motion of an omnivore is similar. These are tools that are useful for the tasks of shearing, ripping and tearing flesh and swallowing it whole. Omnivores swallow their food whole and/or with simple crushing. Man's, as well as other herbivore's jaws cannot shear, but have good side to side and back to front motion. These are tools that are useful for extensive chewing, crushing and grinding of grains and other high fiber foods. Animal flesh cannot be crushed, ground and chewed with the tools Yahweh gave man without some degenerating process such as cooking or frying. 3.A carnivore or omnivore's saliva does not contain digestive enzymes. Man's, as well as other herbivore's saliva is alkaline, containing carbohydrate digestive enzymes. 4.A carnivore's stomach secretes powerful digestive enzymes with about 10 times the amount of hydrochloric acid than a human or herbivore. The pH is less than or equal to "1" with food in the stomach, for a carnivore or omnivore. For humans or other herbivores, the pH ranges from 4 to 5 with food in the stomach. Hence, man must prepare his meats with laborious cooking or frying methods. E. Coli bacteria, salmonella, campylobacter, trichina worms [parasites] or other pathogens would not survive in the stomach of a lion. 5.A carnivore's or omnivore's small intestine is three to six times the length of its trunk. This is a tool designed for rapid elimination of food that rots quickly. Man's, as well as other herbivore's small intestines are 10 to 12 times the length of their body, and winds itself back and forth in random directions. This is a tool designed for keeping food in it for long enough periods of time so that all the valuable nutrients and minerals can be extracted from it before it enters the large intestine. 6.A carnivore's or omnivore's large intestine is relatively short and simple, like a pipe. This passage is also relatively smooth and runs fairly straight so that fatty wastes high in cholesterol can easily slide out before they start to putrefy. Man's, as well as other herbivore's large intestines, or colons, are puckered and pouched, an apparatus that runs in three directions (ascending, traversing and descending), designed to hold wastes that originally were foods high in water content. This is so that the fluids can be extracted from these wastes, now that all the useful nutrients and minerals have been extracted and the long journey through the small intestine is over. Substances high in fat and cholesterol that have been putrefying for hours during their long stay in the small intestine tend to get stuck in the pockets that line the large intestine. 7.Animal flesh, composed of the most highly complex type of protein that exists, requires vast amounts of uric acid to process. Uric acid is released into the system in amounts necessary to break proteins down into amino acids. Uric acid is a toxic substance responsible for the aging process and must be flushed out and dealt with. That is one of the jobs of the liver. In relative terms, a carnivore's liver is a tool designed with the capacity to eliminate ten times as much uric acid as the liver of man or other plant eater. 8.A predator has a gait, large paws and claws, which enable him to hunt, chase and trap his prey. These are tools meant to kill. Man's gait, as well as other herbivore's is designed only for mobility. Examine your hand, fingers and fingernails. Is this an apparatus properly designed for catching, trapping, killing and ripping apart cattle, hogs, chicken and fish? How does this work for picking fruit from trees or harvesting vegetables? The foods your hands were meant to gather are typically, high in water content, high also in fiber to sweep the wastes out of those intestines, and collectively contain every vitamin and mineral necessary to sustain human life. 9.A carnivore's frame of mind is totally geared for hunting and killing. Man's frame of mind is compassionate, friendly and reveres life. When the lion spots another furry animal, something might instinctively click in his head that tells him to hurry up and get dinner. When man spots a furry animal, rather than show his children how to take its life and eat it, a more likely instinct is to pull over, get the camera out and take a picture. Put a young baby chick and an apple in a crib with a six-month-old baby. What will he instinctively attempt to eat and play with? 10. Man is not a natural hunter. Every predator, in order to go hunting, MUST be hungry. Man cannot go hunting if he IS hungry! He must have a meal first. Hunger must precede a predator to go hunting. Hunger must follow man's desire to go hunting, it cannot precede it.

Yeh, that is pretty much what she says, but I find the "natural omnivores"
argument more compelling. I realize in advance that these will change noones
mind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnivore
http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/...-anat-1a.shtml
http://www.beyondveg.com/cat/site-co...tom%20billings

For the record, I regularly eat raw steak, and
have no trouble ripping off a bite and chewing it.

[Khan]

Quote:

For the record, I regularly eat raw steak, and have no trouble ripping off a bite and chewing it.

Same here.

Of course the question is: if we aren't supposed to eat meat, why have we been doing so for several hundred thousand years?

[haha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khan Same here. Of course the question is: if we aren't supposed to eat meat, why have we been doing so for several hundred thousand years?

The idea that we aren't "supposed" to eat meat is just lunacy. Humans came through the Pleistocene in Northern latitudes, and they didn't do it by excavating snow to harvest lichens.

I doubt that most of us need to eat meat, but that is a far cry from we are not supposed to eat meat.

Another line of thought- aren't people pretty easily pissed-off for a bunch of grazers?

Ha

[Alex]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joss "In all these years, I still don't have a good answer!" Why do you need one? If I asked you what methods of foreplay you and your spouse/partner enjoy most, would you feel compelled to answer that as well? I ask this because I'm trying to illustrate that a question such as this is impertinent. It deserves NO answer. SO, if we accept that there actually ARE such things as impertinent personal questions... we also accept that we are not obligated to answer every d*mn personal question some mannerless idot feels like asking. How about, "My dietary habits are none of your business."

My thoughts exactly.

[missionfinder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray My guess is that someone who has chosen to not eat meat challenges their morality and their first response is to suggest that it is unhealthy.

Actually, I'm willing to bet its simply that many are curious. Vegatarians don't challenge my morality, and I've asked them questions simply out of curiosity. Its like asking a blind guy how he gets around... differences intrique people.

[Sandy]

I was a vegetarian for over 20 years, including through pregnancy. Still eat only venetarian dishes in restaurants. What baffles me is how often everyone will read me the vegetarian options from the menu. This includes parents, DH, co-workers, friends, etc.

I don't read the meat dishes to them: "gee, look they have prime rib" or "wow, you can have a steak or pork!"

So why does every feel compelled to reassure me there is something I can/will eat on the menu? I can read, really I can.

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Should I just go ahead and tie this in with the oral sex thread?

[Outtahere]

CFB I'd be disappointed in you if you didn't and I'm surprised it took so long.


People do that to me too, the reading of the menu, I usually ask if they want to order for me as well, usually shuts them up quickly.

[Martha]

Isn't it interesting how many inadvertant things can come off as offensive? We had a lunch room at work and many staff would reheat meals from home. I remember coming in to the lunchroom for a pop and saying to someone that their lunch smelled good. Just making idle conversation that I ordinarily would never remember. But a day or two later I read a Dear Abby letter where someone was complaining about co-workers commenting on how good their lunch smelled and "staring" at their lunch. Made me feel a bit self conscious.

I wonder if reading the vegetarian stuff from the menu comes from times where there often was no vegetarian choice. Let's all look at the menu and be sure there is something for Martha to eat!