Why are Some (Most?) Dentists Con Artists?

[Midpack]

I’ve had good and bad dentists, have had to change due to relocation many times. When I have a bad experience I move on until I find a good one, and stick with him/her.

Name me any profession that doesn’t have good, bad and average practioners? They’re all still people after all, some are skilled and conscientious, some are definitely not and everything in between. That’s life. We used to be able to trust some professions, not any more sadly.

 

[Lcountz]

Agree with all the posts...luckily I have a good dentist...I had a little piece of tooth break off beside an existing ancient filling...I thought "here we go...thousands to fix..."

Nope. My dentist made a repair, and of course did tell me it could last a week or a decade, but try first before dumping a ton into a crown. So far so good.

Because my teeth are good ( NO cavities for decades), he also advised that IF a crown became necessary, to pay out of pocket. Less than a monthly charge for "what if" dental insurance ( I'm retired on Medicare). I do have a Medicare Advantage Plan, but it only covers basic dental)

Wanna know another dental ripoff gimmick? ( in my opinion of course) . I take my pet cats in once a year for annual shots and exam. They are my pets, I love them, and care for them.

EVERY TIME the vet examines them, can't find anything wrong, vaxxes them and then drops the bomb.."I think they will need thier teeth scraped( tartar scare)....we'll give you an estimate ...for 900 dollars...."

Right. I feed a bunch of feral cats who get NO care and no one ever "scrapes thier teeth"...

If my cat had dental pain or obvious inflammation of course I would address it. I've had cats for fifty years, all have lived long lives, and have NEVER had thier "teeth scraped". They live a comfy indoor life, and ultimately they pass on. That's life.

Another gimmick.

In the small town I live in, PEOPLE don't spend 900 for five years of dental work...just can't afford it!!

 

[freedomatlast]

I've had similar experiences as OP has with the "wisdom teeth must come out" and "we need X rays every visit" and we have a special on a "new teeth whitening treatment". All politely declined.

The funny thing is, one of these dentists converted a Midas Muffler Garage that had gone out of business to his new fancy office, And the Midas Garage used to do the exact same thing on cars as the dentist does now with teeth. Every time you go in they try to upsell you with all kinds of things that you absolutely don't need that are only designed to increase their financial positions. And sometimes not only will you be poorer after the work is done, your mouth or car will actually be in worse shape after you leave than when you went it.

 

[JoeWras]

My dentist only does x-rays every 2 years. He will pop off a few close up pictures using a cool macro camera. There's no charge for this, it is part of the exam fee.

I've had friends who had dentists constantly try to sell scaling. Stay away. This should only be for serious gum disease.

 

[JoeWras]

EVERY TIME the vet examines them, can't find anything wrong, vaxxes them and then drops the bomb.."I think they will need thier teeth scraped( tartar scare)....we'll give you an estimate ...for 900 dollars...."

Yes, don't do it. We had a cat that declined after this treatment. The poor guy fell off the exam table while drunk from the anesthesia. We didn't witness it, but we saw the cut on his bottom jaw. The vet said it was "acne." We never went back there again. And our poor little guy just never had the same energy as before.

 

[athena53]

I love my dentist and hope he never retires! Same for the oral surgeon. Dentist is one of those "I'm watching this" guys who chooses the most conservative treatment when he has to do something and explains the risks of failure down the road. I had lots of fillings as a kid, so plenty pf chances for cracked teeth, lost fillings, etc.

He has never tried to sell scaling, deep cleaning or whitening. Once he did freak out because I'd developed deeper gum pockets between visits but I reminded him I'd just had healing caps on two implants placed and the oral surgeon told me not to use my Sonicare or my WaterPik- the vibration could shake the caps loose, the gum tissue would immediately start to grow over them and we'd have to start over with new caps. Sure enough, after I was able to use the Sonicare and WaterPik the gums got better.

I've heard/read plenty on dentists prescribing unnecessary and expensive treatment, though. Many seem to be affiliated with franchises.

As for the similarities with Medicare- in Dad's last years my long-suffering brother and SIL who lived near him took him to endless specialist appointments. He had a urologist, a cardiologist, an eye doc, an audiologist... each would refer him to another. He lived 18 months in LTC at the end without seeing any of them.

 

[CRLLS]

I’ve had good and bad dentists, have had to change due to relocation many times. When I have a bad experience I move on until I find a good one, and stick with him/her.

Name me any profession that doesn’t have good, bad and average practioners? They’re all still people after all, some are skilled and conscientious, some are definitely not and everything in between. That’s life. We used to be able to trust some professions, not any more sadly.

Which reminds me of an appropriate, but not-so funny joke, "Do you know what they call a person who finishes last in his class at med school? Doctor!" I agree that all professions/trades have their winners and losers. Dentists are not the exception. We all want to find one that is top in his field. Statistically, that can't be the case. When you find one that is below your needs or wants, move on. We don't have to stay there.

 

[Badger]

I’ve had good and bad dentists, have had to change due to relocation many times. When I have a bad experience I move on until I find a good one, and stick with him/her.

Name me any profession that doesn’t have good, bad and average practioners? They’re all still people after all, some are skilled and conscientious, some are definitely not and everything in between. That’s life. We used to be able to trust some professions, not any more sadly.

+1
After all these years I have become very skeptical of just about everyone who has an interest in making money off of me. This includes not just the medical profession but realtors, car salesmen, construction, appliance sales, financial advisors, etc. There seems to be an extreme lack of ethical behavior and it has become increasingly necessary to closely vet anyone you have financial dealings. I guess that makes some folks angry with me. Oh well.

Cheers!

 

[Which Roger]

My general rule with dentists is, if they tell you they'll watch things until work really needs to be done, they are probably a winner. Otherwise, you probably have a lemon.

No different than auto mechanics or other service providers. When I was young and more naive, I was occasionally sold things I didn't need. Over time, I realized that the best way to combat this is to be informed, then you will know BS when you hear it.

 

[MRG]

Timely post. I had an idiot for a dentist when I was young, he treated my permanent teeth like deciduous and I have a number of crowns because of his ignorance. Later we found a good practice, husband and wife, we went to for 25 years.

My crowns have stabilized but DW has gum issues like her DM did. When we moved 6 years ago a new dentist took over her care. He recommended deep scaling and then a tray full of periogel before bed nightly. Her next appointments showed improvement. Then he sold the practice and her last appointment when "omg your pockets are terrible". She's now using a little brush to get between her pockets every day.

I'm not sure dentistry is a binary as medicine, more judgment decisions like how to treat pockets. DW's brother is a newly retired dentist who she consulted about her issues, "Oh periogel is controversial I recommend little brushes". WTF?

A few things I've found. If your dentist does the cleaning get a new one who has a hygienist. If there's a lot of turnover in the practice, find a new one. Gimmick treatments are a sure sign of time for a new dentist. How do you tell gimmicks? Not sure, my.last crown the dentist utilized a laser to measure the new crown, I thought why? That crown fit perfectly, no grinding required. I'd stay away from chain type practices. If you're in a metro area with a dental college there's a great resource for the newest best practices.

 

[Time2]

When my son went off to college he found a new dentist in the college town.
On his first appointment, the dentist said he had 3 cavities to fill. He had very good teeth and very few filings if any at that time. He called me and ask what he should do, I said just wait, make an appointment with our dentist, the one he used before he moved. So, he did and our dentist said nothing there to fix and now 10 years later sill nothing. My dentist went on to say, ya, these young dentists have large student debt and it messes with their ethics. It makes me sick that this dentist was taking advantage of young students away from home. Drilling holes in a good tooth that have a good chance of lasting another 60 years.
On another note, my daughter just graduated from Dental school, the cost of school was $270,000, she's lucky that she has no debt to start her career.

 

[braumeister]

The OP had bad experiences, and I understand that, but there is a very wide spectrum here.

My dentist is absolutely wonderful, and so is his daughter, who took over his practice when he retired. An independent practice in a very blue collar area, and completely dedicated to quality patient care. We consider ourselves to be extremely lucky.

 

[Rianne]

OP, thanks for that in-depth description of your experience. I have 11 crowns and wonder if I needed 1/2 of them. I've learned the medical/dental profession is filled with suspicious"professionals" there to boost their bank accounts. My BS detector is getting better, but it has taken many years. I have a few long stories that are pretty complicated. One has to do with cancer. All I can say is beware. I've learned that treatment can be worse than the disease. That's all I'll say because it is a touchy subject and some of us are battling serious conditions and doing the best we can.

I think I may have ranted about my experience years ago on this forum. But I've learned that the experience was mine and does not apply to everyone.

 

[RetiredAndLovingIt]

I tried a University dental school after reading the recommendations from some members here.
They did recommend quite a bit of work in fillings and crowns and I went ahead and took care of it all just to be done with it. I did wonder how come none of these issues were needed 6 months earlier at my regular dental appointment but figured maybe they were just thorough than my dentist that I had used for over 30 years. The work was closely supervised and I don't regret getting it done but I do believe the up-selling starts at the teaching level.
As part of the initial checkup the student tested my saliva and suggested that I would be a perfect candidate for the CariFree CTX system at $30 - $40 a month which I politely declined.
At my final checkup, my saliva tested okay so he then suggested that I might benefit from the PH neutralizer spray at $12 for a box of 4. I decided to give it a try and it does have a pleasant taste and moisturizes my mouth but when it's gone, I won't be reordering.
Overall it was an interesting experience but I've decided to go back to my old dentist that's 5 minutes from my house whereas the dental school was about 45 minutes away. I'm going to be a little embarrassed if he asks about all the work I've had done. I think I trust him more and he's never tried to sell me anything. I can't say that for his partner, I saw him twice over the years and if that guy had his way, I'd have a mouth full of implants. I was so pissed after one checkup that I told the front desk to mark my file that I never wanted to to be scheduled with him again.

 

[qwerty3656]

All 3 of my kids "needed" braces - I couldn't see anything wrong with any of their teeth

 

[RetMD21]

Ha, I wish I and my parents had been as skeptical as OP. Our general dentist removed my asymptomatic wisdom teeth as a teen. To be fair this was almost 50 years ago and my have been considered beneficial.

DW was told my a new dentist 20 years ago that she had some urgent need for all sorts of periodontal treatment which he happened to be able to do. She switched and was found to be fine other than a need for more flossing.

I think dentistry is more prone to this. If your primary car doctor tells you to exercise more and eat less junk food I think you are safe w/o a second opinion.

 

[Rianne]

OP, I feel the same way. I do not trust very many dentists. Like you, I have embedded wisdom teeth, and was told decades ago that they should be removed, 'or else.' I still have them, with no issues.

I was also told that both of my daughters needed braces, like clockwork as each one entered adolescence. I was p#ssed when this happened, as both my daughters had, and still have, gorgeous, perfectly straight teeth. I declined and changed dentists.

Exactly! All of my nieces and nephews had braces! Their parents fell for it. Genetically, their parents had beautiful teeth. What in the world do orthodontists tell parents? Your children will be scared for life with crooked teeth? The jaw will never correctly close? What kind of BS is this? I was so surprised, they all seemed to have beautiful teeth.

 

[OldShooter]

I tried a University dental school ...

The key to me is that neither the student nor the professor have any financial interest in selling things. There certainly can be secondary factors, like the student trying to make things "perfect" or recommending some technique or product he/she just learned about in class. One of my student dentists did offer some kind of cosmetic thing but was very cheerful when I explained that looking perfect for my high school prom was no longer an objective. In my school's case, I count on the professors to moderate or eliminate students' suggestions.

 

[Koolau]

I just haven't had the issues mentioned. One time, my dentist did offer a type of "smile improvement" but there was no pressure and it was only one time. Now, my dentist isn't "cheap" but he is absolutely in line with local dental prices (I checked.) I feel sorry for folks who seem to have an antagonistic relationship with their dentist. YMMV

 

[Scuba]

When we moved in 2019, we sought out a dentist known for his conservative approach. The dentist we had before tried to “upsell” us on services such as replacing old metal fillings with porcelain ones. That might make sense for a singer but for the two of us, it sure didn’t. He also tried to get DH to do some more significant dental work even though nothing was bothering him. We declined all the upsell suggestions and our new dentist thinks we both have excellent dental health.

 

[jollystomper]

I wonder how much of these issues is related to the limited insurance one can get for dental work. The "checks" that are in place with other medical insurance are not prevalent for dentists, so it can seem more like the "wild west" when it comes to their service.

We saw our former Dental practice devolve from very good to horrible over the course of 20 years. They went from dentists who took pride in their work and a pleasant and helpful office staff to one that became an assembly plant with horrible staff. Part of the issue was them selling out to a larger regional/national practice, and suddenly there was turnover in the dentists and hygienists. We came close to suing them when they messed up a crown on one of our kids, and then tried to give an implant, then threw up there hands and said there was nothing they could do. We would show up for an appointment and found out it had to be told, and they would lie and say "we called you to reschedule" - our home phone logs calls even when a message is not left, and we never received anything on that and our cell phones. When we pointed this out they would get mad at us. A couple of times they overcharged us, after we saw the EOB we would contact them, and they would claim "that's what insurance told us". We had to "ambush" them to get them on the phone with both us and the insurance company (trying to schedule a formal cal, the people were always "out"), to point out their error and incorrect charge, and the response become "'I'm not the one with that authority, it is going to have to go back to corporate and it will take time".

The final straw was 2 years ago when DW needed her first crown, and it kept coming off every few weeks. After the third time the dentist working on it said there is nothing I can do, you must have a problem with your bite/teeth. We went to another dentist recommended by a number of our friends and they fixed the crown cheaper and it has never been a problem since then.

What I like about our current dentist is that if he thinks we need treatment, he shows us all the information (e.g. xrays) up front, explains in clear detail the situation, and gives us treatment options, including if he thinks he might not do as good a job as a specialist and refer us to one (and the specialist he referred us to were very good as well). The staff in his office also seem happy, as opposed to the previous office which made you feel like you were interrupting their day.

 

[Z3Dreamer]

A different perspective, as explained to me by a my old school Periodontist. They teach "aggressive dentistry" in school. It was explained to me as not motivated by greed but more like: We have these great tools to make yours the most beautiful and efficient set of teeth it can be. This approach is more like an artist who has high standards.

We had this discussion because I had just fired my new out of school dentist. Why? He replaced an old filling with a $900 gold filling. My wife's dentist (who has retired) replaced her old filling with something cheaper because gold will last forever whereas the cheaper filling will only last about 30 years. She probably won't live 30 years. But a $900 gold filling is the best, most perfect way to go.

 

[Qs Laptop]

We came close to suing them when they messed up a crown on one of our kids, and then tried to give an implant, then threw up there hands and said there was nothing they could do. We would show up for an appointment and found out it had to be told, and they would lie and say "we called you to reschedule" - our home phone logs calls even when a message is not left, and we never received anything on that and our cell phones. When we pointed this out they would get mad at us. A couple of times they overcharged us, after we saw the EOB we would contact them, and they would claim "that's what insurance told us". We had to "ambush" them to get them on the phone with both us and the insurance company (trying to schedule a formal cal, the people were always "out"), to point out their error and incorrect charge, and the response become "'I'm not the one with that authority, it is going to have to go back to corporate and it will take time".

Whoa! This would have driven me crazy. What a hassle.

 

[harllee]

On the other hand, sometimes you do need to listen to your dentist. The dentist I had been going to for many many years retired and a new dentist bought the practice. The first time I saw the new dentist he did X-rays and said I had a cavity under one of my old fillings and that I needed a crown. I was skeptical and decided to get a second opinion. A few months passes and before I got the second opinion the tooth in question started really hurting and I had an abscess. I got an emergency appointment with the dentist and ended up having to take a bunch of antibiotics and had to have a root canal. I probably could have avoided all this if I had listened to the dentist and got the crown when he recommend it.

 

[Qs Laptop]

On the other hand, sometimes you do need to listen to your dentist. The dentist I had been going to for many many years retired and a new dentist bought the practice. The first time I saw the new dentist he did X-rays and said I had a cavity under one of my old fillings and that I needed a crown. I was skeptical and decided to get a second opinion. A few months passes and before I got the second opinion the tooth in question started really hurting and I had an abscess. I got an emergency appointment with the dentist and ended up having to take a bunch of antibiotics and had to have a root canal. I probably could have avoided all this if I had listened to the dentist and got the crown when he recommend it.

You were right to seek a second opinion. In your case had you done it sooner you might have avoided the root canal. However, you had symptoms that alerted you that perhaps the first dentist's diagnosis was correct. In my case, I had no bleeding gums, no painful gums, no tender gums. It didn't hurt when I brushed my teeth. On top of all this I am a regular flosser, use those little brushes that go between teeth (I call them pipe cleaners for teeth), have used those rubber tipped gum massagers, plus I have a Water Pik. I started using these things after the first (wrong) diagnosis over 12 years ago. I got the Water Pik three years ago.

Basically, I was doing everything I could do to prevent gum disease yet somehow I'd gotten it? I didn't think so.