Wrong about HRT

[tb001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmm99 Estradial patches such as Vivelle Dots have been around for at least 20 years and they are approved by the FDA. You do not have to take the compounding route.

That’s interesting. I hadn’t realized Vivelle was bioidentical. This is one of the few areas of my health where I just did what I was told and did no research. I just felt so much better! That said, what I’m taking is expensive. It’s a combo E, P and T product. I’d love to see if I could get the same benefits from a less expensive medicine.

[sengsational]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarieIG Thank you. I intended to listen to the podcast a little bit at a time - but listened listened to it in one sitting.

It's easy to get drawn in when listening to smart people having an intelligent conversation.

[bluelight]

I'm 63 and have been on HRT for about 10 years. Started on the Estradiol patch and was slowly weaned down to the lowest dosage, now I am on the lowest dosage of Estradiol tablets.

Even with an immediate family history, my mother died of breast cancer at age 42, both my previous and current gynecologists (we moved 4 years ago) have determined that for me the positive benefits of HRT outweigh the risk.

[drcha]

I'm a retired gynecologist and I want to not answer specific questions for people (because you should take your queries to your own doc) but to back up what the OP says. There are pros and cons and each person must consider them individually, in collaboration with a knowledgeable practitioner who knows your history. I have been on hormones myself for 12 years. For me, I consider the benefits greater than the risks.

The media does a piss-poor job of reporting most scientific information. The data are rarely black and white enough to conform to tidy sound bites.

While I'm on the soap box, most of the stuff people do to stave off the ravages and diseases of aging and decline are not that effective. If you want to stay well for a long time there are 3 very simple things that just about everyone can do, all of which will cost you little or nothing. 1-Refrain from poisoning yourself with smoking, illicit drugs, or excessive alcohol consumption. 2-Eat more plants and fewer animals. 3-Exercise every day.

[Earlygirl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmm99 Thanks. I am thinking of going back to my doc and tell him that I'm too miserable without something. It looks like Bezwecken Hydration Ovals is estriol-based, which is a much more benign form of estrogen (less strong compared to estradiol and usually produced by pregnant women). I could mention to him about estriol cream, but overall I just don't feel very good without some estradiol for my brain and I'm definitely losing my pep, but maybe I'm supposed to feel old like that as we age...

What has worked for me is Estrace, and I have also used 1% Estradiol cream made by a compounding pharmacy. It's a local application rather than a systemic one. I would be in pain without the cream! I don't know if my brain is declining...my pep is, but I am 65. My previous doctor said the local application is safer. However, going on Medicare now and switching doctors, so I am going to ask the new doctor what they think about HRT.

[Vinnygret]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sengsational I listened to a podcast on hormone replacement therapy for women and found out I was mostly wrong in my thinking. I thought it had been proven that it increased breast cancer risk, universally. Wrong. I thought it's only plus was to reduce menopausal symptoms. Wrong. https://peterattiamd.com/caroltavris-avrumbluming/ The above is two+ hour interview of a pair of people who wrote a book called "Estrogen Matters". The interviewer is Peter Attia (a "longevity focused" MD clinician and podcaster). What surprised me the most is the apparent protective effect hormone replacement seems to have on so many "really bad" and feared diseases such as Alzheimers, diabetes, colon cancer and more. There are contraindications, like if you have existing high risk of CVD, your chances of an event go up slightly in the first year, but then down later. But HRT even helps protect against atherosclerosis as long as you're not in the throws of it already. And, unlike what was in the headlines, HRT probably isn't going to increase the likelihood of breast cancer. They talk quite a bit about why many of us came away with that wrong idea (but no true smoking gun). Anyway, I thought if this post led some people to learn more about this topic and then ask their doctor about it, it might make for a few longer, healthier retirements.

Well, you should do what you think is best for you, but my three quarters of my right breast says "no more for me, thanks." When I asked the gyn who did my hysterectomy how long I would take the hormones (the lowest available dose), he glibly replied, "for the rest of your life, which, incidentally, would have been considerably shorter had I believed the clear mammogram I received in February of 2000 and had skipped the breast self exams which found my tumor that November. At 48, I was a good little patient, doctor knows best. Also, I was taking Premarin and was blissfully unaware of the torture of horses that goes on in order to manufacture that HRT. I was ignorant. I never thought to ask any more other than how long I would have to take it. But the production of the drug is a crime against sentient beings who have no say in the matter. I was over 60 before someone clued me in on the NAME of the drug: PRegnant MAres urINe - Premarin. Yes, I had more hair, slept better and found it easier to manage my weight, but once you have had breast cancer, your perspective changes. But, as I said, you (plural) should do what you feel is best for yourself. As for me, I'd read more than one report. Chemotherapy was no fun.

[Vinnygret]

And some of us don't. Breast cancer notwithstanding.

[Vacation4us]

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Originally Posted by athena53 Wow. I bought the cheapest Medicare prescription plan and I pay something like $365 before I hit the deductible (I make sure to refill if I'm running low near the end of the year). GoodRX and others no help. Yes, give it another try. It takes a month or two to "ramp up" so you shouldn't expect any effect after just a couple of applications.

Thanks for that info. I have already taken my second dose this week.

As for Premarin being made from horse urine, who cares if it works and doesn’t increase my risk of having a stroke. I want my sex life back! Instead of the Sahara Desert and pain I now experience. Bio identical hormones have not been proven to cause less strokes.

When my mother had her second stroke the neurologist said it was 100% the HRT when recovered my mom went to the OB doc I as a OB nurse had hand picked for her just to let her know. She was like OH! Now this happened 20 years ago and since then there have been multiple studies but keep in mind your OB isn’t going to be the one to treat your stroke. There will always be a disconnect there.

[Kristinia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmm99 At my doc's request (and I agreed to his request), I weaned myself off of NHRT (Estradiol patch and oral progesterone) at the beginning of this year. (I'm 61.) I cut my patch by 25% over a few months. It was good for a few months and then, boom! Hot flashes started. I have a fan all over my living room so I can turn one on closest to me when they hit. I also started taking a few capsules of soy isoflavone which seems to help with the frequencies of the hot flashes A LITTLE. I've also noticed that I am much more forgetful and sadly, I feel kind of dry... I may go back to my doc and see if he can do something about that... (Estriol cream??) Another thing I've noticed is that I'm less bloated (my rings are looser).

This was definitely me about a year ago. Came off of HRT after being on it over 30 years (early histo) and everything fell apart. I cried easily; gained weight; and dry....it was horrible. So went back to my dr and begged to be put back on HRT. She said the research indicated high risk for breast cancer. So she put me on Premarin cream (administered at night) and a low dose anti-depressant. Things are so much better now. So not sure if research is correct but I won’t go back on it now that I have found a way to live a happy life without taking it orally.

[Mansderm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drcha I'm a retired gynecologist and I want to not answer specific questions for people (because you should take your queries to your own doc) but to back up what the OP says. There are pros and cons and each person must consider them individually, in collaboration with a knowledgeable practitioner who knows your history. I have been on hormones myself for 12 years. For me, I consider the benefits greater than the risks. The media does a piss-poor job of reporting most scientific information. The data are rarely black and white enough to conform to tidy sound bites. While I'm on the soap box, most of the stuff people do to stave off the ravages and diseases of aging and decline are not that effective. If you want to stay well for a long time there are 3 very simple things that just about everyone can do, all of which will cost you little or nothing. 1-Refrain from poisoning yourself with smoking, illicit drugs, or excessive alcohol consumption. 2-Eat more plants and fewer animals. 3-Exercise every day.

Retired MD, too and agree 100%. I'm on BHT for about 12 years now and plan to continue. It is generally not covered by insurance. I just don't feel like myself without them. I've had genetic testing for cancer susceptibility and am low risk. My thoughts might be different if I were high risk. Exercise is very important and I'm pretty sure I would be less motivated without my hormones because without them, I was pretty apathetic to everything and I cant see spending the 20+ more years that I may have to live as an apathetic blob. Fortunately I did find a doctor who said "every woman is different" and she was willing to work with me to find a relatively safe way to treat me.

[Greddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerides What infuriates me is the lack of scientific research and understanding on menopause vs. say pregnancy. You go to your doc with peri/menopause symptoms (even your older female gynos who have been thru it) and it's basically a shrug and a mystery and knowing chuckle that every woman is different, la la la. Hot flashes, crazy hormonal stuff worse then when you were a teenager? ok they say things like try yoga and tea and herbal stuff. Compare that to pregnancy... I recently searched on books on amazon on pregnancy - over 50,000. On peri-menopause? - 2,000.

That is so true! I am getting to this age when the inevitable is starting to show that it will happen and from what I can tell, I am starting to be dealing with what must be hot flashes, and already for some time with some problems during intimacy. But whenever I bring up some issues I am recently having with my doctor, whom I have used for many years, her reaction is basically "just deal with it, and by the way, there are various aides", although she says it with fewer words than that. However, it seems clear that ultimately the effects on body and mind of this "situation" are much more significant than the amount of effort the average doctor wants to spend on it.

[Vinnygret]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vacation4us Thanks for that info. I have already taken my second dose this week. As for Premarin being made from horse urine, who cares if it works and doesn’t increase my risk of having a stroke. I want my sex life back! Instead of the Sahara Desert and pain I now experience. Bio identical hormones have not been proven to cause less strokes. When my mother had her second stroke the neurologist said it was 100% the HRT when recovered my mom went to the OB doc I as a OB nurse had hand picked for her just to let her know. She was like OH! Now this happened 20 years ago and since then there have been multiple studies but keep in mind your OB isn’t going to be the one to treat your stroke. There will always be a disconnect there.

Well, I care passionately. I give thousands of dollars to animal charities, so I put my money where my mouth is. You ought to do some research about what happens to all those little foals because mama has to get pregnant again ASAP. And maybe think about how the mares are confined to their stalls so that every drop of urine can be collected. But, if it doesn't bother you, stay ignorant of the process and use the product. It's an ugly business, like the veal industry and the foie gras industry and the lamb industry, none of which I consume. I only wish I had known about what is done to these horses when I was prescribed the medication.

[Katsmeow]

This is interesting. I never took HRT. I wonder if it has any benefit for women who never had hot flashes or any menopausal or perimenopausal symptoms.

I always have felt sort of bad saying this....but I had no symptoms at all. One time, once only, I felt a mild wave of heat that I wondered if it was a hot flash. It lasted a few seconds and wasn't bad, just unusual.

But other than that -- nothing.

Maybe this was because my natural estrogen pre-menopause was on the lower side. I conceived through using a fertility medication.

So maybe I never noticed menopause because there wasn't a huge change. Maybe that puts me at higher risks for some thing, but that is how I was....

No one ever suggested I consider HRT since I had no symptoms of any kind.

[meridiver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tb001 That’s interesting. I hadn’t realized Vivelle was bioidentical. This is one of the few areas of my health where I just did what I was told and did no research. I just felt so much better! That said, what I’m taking is expensive. It’s a combo E, P and T product. I’d love to see if I could get the same benefits from a less expensive medicine.

The generic estradiol patches are less than half the price of Vivelle. I'm currently on one called Mylan, but just switched my health plan to Kaiser and they've refilled my prescription with a different generic called DOTTI. I take the lowest dose, 0.025mg, and I haven't noticed any difference between them.

I'm in my late 50's and absolutely dreading the day that my doc tells me I'm supposed to get off the patch. I may beg to stay on it.

[tb001]

Katsmeow, don’t feel bad at all! Revel in it. It’s wonderful that you didn’t have major issues when going through menopause. I too struggled with fertility, but didn’t have the same luck as you have.

For me, the hot flashes were there but not debilitating, but the sleep issues were bad. I’ve always had trouble with insomnia, but since the onset of menopause I would wake up at 1am and be up the rest of the night. HRT has me sleeping like a baby for the first time in years. I have to think that’s nothing but good for mental and physical health.

Luckily I have no risk factors for cancer, so it’s an easier decision, but after seeing the difference for me, I would be tempted to take it even with some risk factors.

And meridiver, I can identify with begging to stay on it. My brain is just functioning so much better now. I still have off days, which are usually associated with poor sleep, but they’re much, much less frequent.

[Ginny]

Have you ever heard of this Dr. Her info changed my life.

https://store.drnorthrup.com/category/store-books/

[Vacation4us]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinnygret Well, I care passionately. I give thousands of dollars to animal charities, so I put my money where my mouth is. You ought to do some research about what happens to all those little foals because mama has to get pregnant again ASAP. And maybe think about how the mares are confined to their stalls so that every drop of urine can be collected. But, if it doesn't bother you, stay ignorant of the process and use the product. It's an ugly business, like the veal industry and the foie gras industry and the lamb industry, none of which I consume. I only wish I had known about what is done to these horses when I was prescribed the medication.

Good for you.

For me, read post above. I love veal. Don’t eat it often but don’t refuse to eat it either. Can’t stand the smell of lamb, yuck. Foie gras no thanks. Chicken, beef, and pork all good. Most vegetarians aren’t healthy. Have you ever seen the placenta from a vegetarian? I have it’s about half the size of a normal placenta.

And as I am sure your also a dog lover please keep em leashed and clean up their s*** the world is not your dogs toilet, your own backyard is!

But animal rights is not the topic under discussion.

Be well

[Greddy]

I just came across a rather good documentary about menopause called "Hot Flash Havoc", which discusses hormonal and psychological effects, including hot flashes, influences on libido, pain during intercourse, and various treatment options including HRT, both bio-identical and the earlier versions based on premarin and the like. It also tries to unravel the details of the findings of the famous earlier studies that in the public eye show the problems of HRT, and provides a more nuanced view about this. I thought it is very informative, and much better than what I could ever get out of my doctor.

Home - Hot Flash Havoc
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1495784/

[ElizabethT]

Anecdotal here, which is all I have to offer- Sailed through my entire lifetime with minimal issues as they pertain to being female. Expected same during pre and post menopause, but was dead wrong. Four post-meno years of awful sleep, awful hot flashes, awful fatigue, awful anxiety, awful everything. There were days I thought that my life was pretty much over if 'this' was all that was left.

So I finally broke down and went on HRT five weeks ago, at the absolutely lowest dosage available.

My life has done a full 180 turnaround in the ensuing weeks. I literally cannot believe it, even still. Superlatives, yes, because that is how it feels to finally SLEEP! And to have energy, few remaining hot flashes, and the lessening of anxiety.

I am willing to take on whatever mild risks might be associated with my two meds- Pregesteron daily and a Climara patch weekly vs. the h#ll my life had become as a result of menopause.

Life today feels WONDERFUL. If I'd have known what relief could be found I would have started HRT immediately rather than slogging it out for four years.

[sengsational]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greddy I just came across a rather good documentary about menopause called "Hot Flash Havoc", /

2012 documentary on the topic. I can't see right-off who produced it and what was the motivation. As with anything medical, I like to understand motivation and possible conflicts of interest. Not saying this documentary isn't accurate (haven't watched it, and even if I did, probably couldn't properly assess accuracy or bias), but it is 8 years old, so the thinking at the time was probably not quite aligned with more recent thinking.