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Old 09-20-2022, 02:47 PM   #41
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I have a close friend that was a CEO of a company with 1000 employees. He's always had an investment "kitty" separate from his regular retirement accounts, etc. used for day trading.

When he retired early, he went to work for Merrill Lynch for a couple of years--mainly to get more knowledge of the investment world.

He's been very successful day trading. But he's smart enough to keep it separate from any funds he'll ever need later in life. It's more a source of entertainment.

My cousin was in her late 40's when she divorced a completely narcissistic but very successful man. We're talking living in a palatial mansion in Woodland Hills and driving a Bentley convertible. She had all the money she could ever spend--until she began day trading. Flash forward and she's living in someone's guest house in Palos Verdes Estates and living off social security disability. Day trading didn't work for her--someone with no common sense or knowledge of the stock market.
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Old 09-20-2022, 03:17 PM   #42
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The only casino game which could be "beat" was when they were using one deck for blackjack, not anymore.
I'm not a big BJ player but there are still a few casinos around that allow single deck BJ play. It seems to me that they are slowly going away and all have rules in place that increase their odds as well as max bet limits. The Casinos where I still see them usually only have their single deck tables open on the weekends or by special request.

And of course there was these guys who could beat a multi deck shoe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_Blackjack_Team
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Old 09-22-2022, 10:35 AM   #43
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I see that all the time in Casinos in real life. Some of these gamblers swear they have a system for just about every game in a Casino. Funny thing is, after a year or so of playing their system, these folks seem to quit gambling... (Or at least I don't see them anymore) Or maybe they won enough they just don't need to play anymore.
They even post the previous Roulette outcomes. It's like they're trying to give the money away.

I had a coworker retire to day trade back in 04. The folks who stayed in touch with him were coming in with stories of days of huge wins. All that money must of bored him as I got a call asking for an employment reference in 05.

I'm to lazy and not smart enough to be a successful day trader.
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Old 09-22-2022, 10:53 AM   #44
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They even post the previous Roulette outcomes. It's like they're trying to give the money away.
Total waste of time looking at that board or tracking the numbers of the past hits. I know some folks that have tracked thousands of spins trying to identify a wheel bias.... Extremely unlikely to find one. In my experience, what has happened in the past on a Roulette wheel is nothing but history and has absolutely nothing to do with the next spin. If you want to increase your odds playing Roulette, play a European Wheel rather than an American Wheel. One less number to lose on. Or better yet, don't play!
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Old 09-22-2022, 12:55 PM   #45
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Here are the four facts that come to mind every time I hear about day trading:
These are not FACTS these are opinions of someone who most likely has correctly come to the decision to never day trade, whatever that definition even means. If it means buying and selling only on the same day, that is a very narrow definition of trading for profit. If it means every day analyzing and buying when you think you see something of value and at a later date determining it is best to sell then that is another. The time limitation really makes zero sense.

-I never hear about the money losing trades that must exist. If I only hear about the good and none of the inevitable bad from people who actually trade, that's a red flag. ACTUALLY mostly individuals (portrayed mostly as deranged) with losing trades are posted on this thread -People say they like doing it, but never seem to do it for very long.
-Short term buying and selling is trying to predict what your fellow man will do (to investment prices). When I look at the people around me in this world, I can't predict practically anything that they'll do. I struggle to think anyone can.

Really George Soros doesn't come to mind? Michael Burry? Kyle Bass? Tim Gritttany? this is just a few people who made millions starting with next to nothing. My friend, a former VP of a stock market exchange is working with a small 30 person group that day trades every day, he is just an employee helping write code but they make multi millions a year and his last bonus was 300K.

They all have one thing in common, they would never come to this forum and offer advice, which would be mocked anyway if they would even do so, because unless one believes in something for yourself you will never be successful.


-If you're successful doing anything (like gambling) for a short while, it can be easy to believe it's skill and not luck giving those results. If you can consistently be successful over long periods of time, fantastic! I don't think you really mean this as in the next sentence you immediately question that assumption. But those stories are rare and always feel questionable at best.
While I do believe this quite accurately describes the fundamental value and beliefs of this forum, again these are not facts but opinions.
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Old 09-23-2022, 05:25 AM   #46
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While I do believe this quite accurately describes the fundamental value and beliefs of this forum, again these are not facts but opinions.
Re-read my post. Every point I made was fact.
-People say they like doing it, but never seem to do it for very long. -FACT
-I never hear about the money losing trades that must exist. -FACT
-Short term buying and selling is trying to predict what your fellow man will do (to investment prices). -FACT
-If you're successful doing anything (like gambling) for a short while, it can be easy to believe it's skill and not luck giving those results. -FACT

You may disagree with my commentary, that's fine. But the above are facts, despite you telling me their not in red italics. Take a breather. No one is attacking you.
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Old 09-23-2022, 05:40 AM   #47
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My neighbor started day trading in 2006 after retiring from IBM. He told us all about it, and how successful he was, and secure with a pension.

In 2010, they were locked out of their house by Fannie Mae. They had less than 24 hours to get whatever they wanted. A few weeks later, an auction house came and took all the rest of the remaining goods.

It didn't go well for him. Just sayin'
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Old 09-23-2022, 05:45 AM   #48
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My take is that Day Trading requires one to be intensely focused on the computer during parts of the day, and for me, that would interfere with the freedom to do what I want.

I lean toward "Swing Trading" where a trade is a little longer but still short enough to make things interesting and have the potential for a bigger return than "buy and hold".
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Old 09-23-2022, 09:39 PM   #49
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My take is that Day Trading requires one to be intensely focused on the computer during parts of the day, and for me, that would interfere with the freedom to do what I want.

As the OP of this thread, my passion is not to sit in front of monitors all day… plan to use my software engineering skills + prior patents/algorithms to build a fully automated trading platform. Looking at it more as a hobby and something to keep my mind sharp as I’m only 50 years old.
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Old 09-24-2022, 06:57 AM   #50
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As the OP of this thread, my passion is not to sit in front of monitors all day… plan to use my software engineering skills + prior patents/algorithms to build a fully automated trading platform. Looking at it more as a hobby and something to keep my mind sharp as I’m only 50 years old.
So do it, and please report back - weekly updates here?

-ERD50
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Old 09-24-2022, 08:04 AM   #51
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My BIL took a very nice inheritance, ~ $200K, went into his bedroom, and started day-trading. This action mirrors his personality, unpredictable and risky. One might say entrepreneurs exhibit the same characteristics. He lost it all. Made uninformed knee-jerk decisions and is currently in debt beyond the ability to pay it back. What can you say? When it's a member of your family, it is painful. But no help from us, it is sad to watch and hear about his disastrous adventures.
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Old 09-24-2022, 02:53 PM   #52
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As the OP of this thread, my passion is not to sit in front of monitors all day… plan to use my software engineering skills + prior patents/algorithms to build a fully automated trading platform. Looking at it more as a hobby and something to keep my mind sharp as I’m only 50 years old.
Can you share your strategy in broad strokes? I don't know anything about day trading and am curious as to the kinds of strategies that can be automated.
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Old 09-24-2022, 03:17 PM   #53
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Around here we have a lot of billboards offering "day trading classes to earn big profits quickly".

I think that says a lot about our economy (locally, at least) and even more about how little people understand the underlying mechanisms they would like to learn to exploit.
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Old 09-24-2022, 07:03 PM   #54
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Can you share your strategy in broad strokes? I don't know anything about day trading and am curious as to the kinds of strategies that can be automated.

Where to start…. Day traders use all sorts of technical analysis, indicators, etc. but rather than sit behind a desk monitoring dozens/hundreds of stocks and all of their indicators… I’m gonna do it programmatically by back testing a variety of strategies to give me a win/loss ratio by asset. I will then get a real-time feed of stock market data and essentially automatically buy/sale throughout the day. Right now I’m just manually trading various strategies while writing the software to do it automatically.
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Old 09-24-2022, 07:41 PM   #55
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I know two men who got into day trading after losing jobs. Neither of them were dumb, but they both admitted day trading had made fools of them.

They ended up with less money than they started with. One compared it with gambling, said it was like a habit he needed to "kick."

"The big guys control the markets," was the other one's opinion.


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No. But a few years ago during a conversation with our CPA I casually mentioned day trading as a bit of a joke.

Her response was that she had several day traders as clients. Mostly made up of people who had lost their jobs fpr reason or another.

Her comment was that not one of them had done all that well from a tax year income perspective. Sure, they had some great hits and liked to talk them up.

But she audited their statements, did the tax returns. She said she quickly learned about the dog trades they never mentioned.
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Old 09-24-2022, 08:15 PM   #56
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Where to start…. Day traders use all sorts of technical analysis, indicators, etc. but rather than sit behind a desk monitoring dozens/hundreds of stocks and all of their indicators… I’m gonna do it programmatically by back testing a variety of strategies to give me a win/loss ratio by asset. I will then get a real-time feed of stock market data and essentially automatically buy/sale throughout the day. Right now I’m just manually trading various strategies while writing the software to do it automatically.
Thanks for sharing.

Actually that sounds like a fun challenge. I was a CS major in college and used to enjoy writing snippets of codes for fun, and I can see this being a fun hobby to keep your mind sharp and maybe make some money out of it in the process. Please keep us posted of your progress and best of luck!
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Old 09-24-2022, 09:36 PM   #57
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So do it, and please report back - weekly updates here?



-ERD50

You got it! I’ve been paper trading my strategies on ThinkOrSwim (TD Ameritrade’s) free platform. No commissions, no transaction fees. So far I’m impressed but again not planning to sit there all day using their tools when I can automate my own trading via software.
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Old 09-25-2022, 12:47 AM   #58
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I have never tried day trading, but see that I don't know how to formulate a strategy with the market movement so random. If someone can do that he can make money, but it's not for me.

Additionally, as a poster has pointed out, the statistics show that the market movements overnight between market close one day to market open the next day are a lot more than the intraday movements. Hence, I am more of a swing trader. And I sell covered call and put options instead of the underlying shares in order to get the additional benefits of the time value decay.
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Old 09-25-2022, 03:59 AM   #59
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IMO Day trading by it's nature is zero-sum and very close to gambling and the big players have the house advantage as any reliable money to be made is likely by fast computers and at low marginal rates but high volume. I get the allure but for every winner there is a loser. If I were to try it, it would be in a security that I researched and wanted to own long term incase I got stuck but at that point I'd probably be better off just selling put options but that doesn't seem as sexy. I would not recommend it for individuals but am not against day trading/trader as I think it adds liquidity to the market -perhaps along with a bit of intraday volatility.
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Old 09-25-2022, 07:20 AM   #60
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I don't consider what I do day trading, but I do trade daily. I usually focus on catching the peaks of an overbought position with limit short orders ( requires me to be up early in the premarket). I also short stocks in downtrends and trade ranges of volatility.

You can make money, and it doesn't require sitting in front of the screen all day, but you have to be disiplined, not too greedy, and know when to cut a loss.
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