Anyone Tried Day Trading After Retirement?

[Sunset]

^^^^^^^^^^ Looking good. Hope it all works well for you.

 

[Koolau]

Well it’s been a PITA transitioning my algo trading bots to use multiple brokerage platforms (had too because the first brokerage platform - TD Ameritrade - couldn’t “handle” the volume of trades) but v1 is finally complete.

These algo bots (which mostly just scalp individual tickers within the S&P 500) have performed thousands of full automated trades and the account has grown from an initial account size of $25,000 (to be eligible for the pattern day trader SEC rule) and it’s now just over $150,00 (with no margin/leverage) and it has only run fully autonomously for a couple of months (with some tweaking here and there and some significant down time). All those patents I did (working for multiple Fortune 500 companies in non financial sectors) are now personally starting to pay off for me personally besides just have plaques on the wall [emoji16]

One thing to note is that most of the results and videos you’ll get while searching Google/YouTube on “how to day trade” or “best technical indicators for scalping” is all a bunch of [emoji90]. In addition to my algorithms, I fully and programmatically backtested nearly every technical indicator/strategy found on Google/YouTube and most of them do not work unless they are significantly adapted in dealing with various intraday market conditions (up, down, and/or sideways). BTW - tight stop losses are a game changer (when done programmatically and not via a preset value). My next version will
Incorporate TQQQ and SQQQ - they are both triple leveraged ETF’s and are solid strategies if unsure which way the market is going to turn (e.g. in a sideways market). Backtesting a decade worth of those still but results look very promising.

YMMW

Just my normal curiosity, but I have to ask: (you don't have to answer.) Do you do this w*rk because you need to make more money for your Early Retirement or do you do it more for "fun?" I guess I ask because it seems like a LOT of w*rk and while you seem very confident, there must be significant risk. I could sort of see it as recreation - sorta like playing poker. Otherwise, it just seems like playing against the house. Play long enough and you'll lose (no offense intended.) YMMV

 

[RetiredAt49]

Just my normal curiosity, but I have to ask: (you don't have to answer.) Do you do this w*rk because you need to make more money for your Early Retirement or do you do it more for "fun?" I guess I ask because it seems like a LOT of w*rk and while you seem very confident, there must be significant risk. I could sort of see it as recreation - sorta like playing poker. Otherwise, it just seems like playing against the house. Play long enough and you'll lose (no offense intended.) YMMV

- It’s definitely more of a hobby because I have more than I need financially to live very comfortably for the rest of my life.
- I do it because I enjoy working with and applying technology.
- 99% of my NW is in long term investments (equities) and real estate,
- I take no offensive in that you think algorithmic day trading is “risky”. While I would be 100% okay with losing every penny in this account, I’m not stupid and I have mitigated risk on multiple levels… My algo bots have extremely tight stop losses (e.g. pennies per share so the risk per trade is extremely low) and on average they are only in a trade for a few seconds or perhaps minutes at most and they only trade while the market is open…. Another major factor in reducing “risk”, my bots can/do trade hundreds of individual stocks/ETF’s simultaneously. If a black swan event happened during the open market and while my bots were actively trading and I happen to lose everything, this account is only a tiny fraction of my NW and I wouldn’t lose a single night’s sleep.
- Some people during retirement like to golf, sleep, eat, travel, binge watch TV, etc. I do some of those things in moderation but I also get a lot of enjoyment building technology and keeping my skills I’ve gained over the past 25+ years somewhat sharp whenever possible.
- People on this forum wanted me to keep posting and providing updates. From here on out I’ll just send updates to those of you who DM me as I know the audience for this type of thing is minimal.

 

[freedomatlast]

Never heard of the pattern day trading rule before.

For those that are interested:

If you place your fourth day trade in the 5 trading day window, your brokerage account will be flagged for pattern day trading for 90 calendar days. This means you can't place any day trades for 90 days unless you bring your portfolio value (excluding any crypto positions) above $25,000.

I'm not sure why the balance matters, but apparently it does.

Thanks for the education!

 

[Koolau]

- It’s definitely more of a hobby because I have more than I need financially to live very comfortably for the rest of my life.
- I do it because I enjoy working with and applying technology.
- 99% of my NW is in long term investments (equities) and real estate,
- I take no offensive in that you think algorithmic day trading is “risky”. While I would be 100% okay with losing every penny in this account, I’m not stupid and I have mitigated risk on multiple levels… My algo bots have extremely tight stop losses (e.g. pennies per share so the risk per trade is extremely low) and on average they are only in a trade for a few seconds or perhaps minutes at most and they only trade while the market is open…. Another major factor in reducing “risk”, my bots can/do trade hundreds of individual stocks/ETF’s simultaneously. If a black swan event happened during the open market and while my bots were actively trading and I happen to lose everything, this account is only a tiny fraction of my NW and I wouldn’t lose a single night’s sleep.
- Some people during retirement like to golf, sleep, eat, travel, binge watch TV, etc. I do some of those things in moderation but I also get a lot of enjoyment building technology and keeping my skills I’ve gained over the past 25+ years somewhat sharp whenever possible.
- People on this forum wanted me to keep posting and providing updates. From here on out I’ll just send updates to those of you who DM me as I know the audience for this type of thing is minimal.

Thanks, and I appreciate the explanation. I had a friend who tried "day trading" and he did so well that he lost his shirt. It sounds like you know the limitations and have a built in firewall. Enjoy this endeavor.

Heh, heh, next is to teach your method on-line. Could be the BIG money maker.

Aloha.

 

[kgtest]

You cannot beat the computers, they are faster and smarter.

and "buggy". One wrong parameter, misplaced digit or decimal and it can be costly.

I test financial software as my day job and find lots of defects in code though so I am biased

 

[kgtest]

- It’s definitely more of a hobby because I have more than I need financially to live very comfortably for the rest of my life.
- I do it because I enjoy working with and applying technology.
- 99% of my NW is in long term investments (equities) and real estate,
- I take no offensive in that you think algorithmic day trading is “risky”. While I would be 100% okay with losing every penny in this account, I’m not stupid and I have mitigated risk on multiple levels… My algo bots have extremely tight stop losses (e.g. pennies per share so the risk per trade is extremely low) and on average they are only in a trade for a few seconds or perhaps minutes at most and they only trade while the market is open…. Another major factor in reducing “risk”, my bots can/do trade hundreds of individual stocks/ETF’s simultaneously. If a black swan event happened during the open market and while my bots were actively trading and I happen to lose everything, this account is only a tiny fraction of my NW and I wouldn’t lose a single night’s sleep.
- Some people during retirement like to golf, sleep, eat, travel, binge watch TV, etc. I do some of those things in moderation but I also get a lot of enjoyment building technology and keeping my skills I’ve gained over the past 25+ years somewhat sharp whenever possible.
- People on this forum wanted me to keep posting and providing updates. From here on out I’ll just send updates to those of you who DM me as I know the audience for this type of thing is minimal.

Seems like it could kill a few hours writing some logic and debugging it through different scenarios.

 

[mh]

Deleted

 

[DJRR]

Any Update? Based on the growth curve you should be approaching $1M now.

Did you truly "crack the code"?
Does the algorithm scale with the higher dollar volumes?
Does the new broker handle the higher volumes well?
Any unforseen risks?
How has it handled the volatility of the past months?
Did you start a hedge fund? Sell the program to a hedge fund?
Taking clients?

Enquiring minds want to know.

 

[RetiredAt49]

Any Update? Based on the growth curve you should be approaching $1M now.

Did you truly "crack the code"?
Does the algorithm scale with the higher dollar volumes?
Does the new broker handle the higher volumes well?
Any unforseen risks?
How has it handled the volatility of the past months?
Did you start a hedge fund? Sell the program to a hedge fund?
Taking clients?

Enquiring minds want to know.

Here's a quick update:
1) My initial account ($25,000) grew to about $375,000 (as of a few months ago) but I ended up splitting that account across multiple brokerage platforms (long story there)
2) I haven't aggregated all of my accounts (across multiple brokerages) but I know they collectively are north of $500,000.
3) The new brokerage platforms do handle the volume just fine. I did end up going back to TD Ameritrade (for an algo that does less than 365 trades per day) but most of the traffic goes to multiple accounts within TradeStation.
4) The biggest issue I've had was when I had an AWS instance (that monitors my trades) go down. Most of my algos do not use predefined stop loss / take profit target with the broker (commonly known as OCO or bracket orders) because I don't like to tip them off where those levels are and quite honestly my algos let winners run if price action and market structure supports the trade.
5) Regarding hedge fund, I personally don't want the headache of starting one because I am FI and this is mostly a hobby and for a way to keep my technical skills sharp. I have had numerous family members and friends that want me to invest their money but there's some grey legal issues there and honestly I want to make sure this thing is rock solid using my own money.
6) I do get a lot of satisfaction watching my algos trade all day long.
7) Have I cracked the code? Well, obviously things are working amazing but I've been a software engineer for nearly 30 years and led a research team for about 10 of those years so I know that it's too early to celebrate.
8) As far as taking on clients, I would have to register and become a broker/dealer and again - not sure I want the headache but if I could find someone who would oversee/manage things I might consider it.
9) I have considered pursuing another patent - but again, I don't want this to feel like a full-time job and sometimes I've put in many more hours than I (or my wife) would like

Also - please tell the moderators to bring back the mobile app! I haven't been on forum in months (until I received an email on this thread).

 

[kgtest]

You turned 25k into 500 over a year? Can I break the champagne bottle for you then? Its DEFINITELY time to celebrate.

 

[ERD50]

Here's a quick update:
1) My initial account ($25,000) grew to about $375,000 (as of a few months ago) but I ended up splitting that account across multiple brokerage platforms (long story there)
2) I haven't aggregated all of my accounts (across multiple brokerages) but I know they collectively are north of $500,000. ...

5) Regarding hedge fund, ...

Congrats, that's wild!

As you say, a short time though and maybe "too early to celebrate". Maybe I'm just too timid, but I sure would want to bank half of it, and continue trading with the rest, banking as I go. It might even become tougher to do it with larger amounts anyhow?

I can understand the resistance to do this outside of your own trading, after all you are retired!

And I can also understand your satisfaction/pride/fun in seeing the trades take place and rake in money. With that in mind, don't you want to train someone else on this, and let them continue, take it public or whatever?

-ERD50

 

[DJRR]

Here's a quick update:
1) My initial account ($25,000) grew to about $375,000 (as of a few months ago) but I ended up splitting that account across multiple brokerage platforms (long story there)
5) Regarding hedge fund, I personally don't want the headache of starting one because I am FI and this is mostly a hobby and for a way to keep my technical skills sharp. I have had numerous family members and friends that want me to invest their money but there's some grey legal issues there and honestly I want to make sure this thing is rock solid using my own money.
6) I do get a lot of satisfaction watching my algos trade all day long.
7) Have I cracked the code? Well, obviously things are working amazing but I've been a software engineer for nearly 30 years and led a research team for about 10 of those years so I know that it's too early to celebrate.
8) As far as taking on clients, I would have to register and become a broker/dealer and again - not sure I want the headache but if I could find someone who would oversee/manage things I might consider it.
9) I have considered pursuing another patent - but again, I don't want this to feel like a full-time job and sometimes I've put in many more hours than I (or my wife) would like

Also - please tell the moderators to bring back the mobile app! I haven't been on forum in months (until I received an email on this thread).

Pretty amazing. I am sure there are quant funds that would pay you a pretty penny for the code if it continues to perform. Just keep a free RTU for your hobby If you want non family clients I will keep $25k available

 

[MarieIG]

It's nice to see you've been so successful with your project!


You should probably look into getting a patent . . .

 

[Sunset]

Wow..... $25K to $500K is amazing. Glad it worked for you.

In another year you will have $10 Million.

 

[easysurfer]

I've day traded every day since retiring.

My extent of day trading is I've traded wearing business attire at the office to wearing comfy clothes and putzing around at home.

 

[Closet_Gamer]

Amazing returns. I hope they continue for you.

I'm curious, are you using leverage?

 

[captain3d]

Fantastic results. And yes I miss the app also.

 

[brett]

Several years ago our tax accountant mentioned to me that she had several clients l who had become 'day traders' after taking a package from their employer.

She said they spoke of the gains but seldom of the losses. Overall not one of the three made any real money. Certainly not enough to justify the effort. Two stopped after 18 months because of compounded losses.

 

[Golden Mean]

Assuming these trades are in taxable accounts, how complicated/long do you think your tax return will be? Do you have to log every trade or is there some 'lemme sum up' tax form?

 

[GhostofTomJoad]

Never, day-trading. Too many horror-stories.

 

[Koolau]

I'm with ERD50. I'd take half off the table and put in something safe to protect your total stash. I think gamblers call it "rat holing" some money when their winning. That way, when they go home, they still have money - no matter what happens later in the game. Anyway, congrats on your process. I hope it continues to fund your early retirement. Aloha

 

[dobig]

I'm with ERD50. I'd take half off the table and put in something safe to protect your total stash. I think gamblers call it "rat holing" some money when their winning. That way, when they go home, they still have money - no matter what happens later in the game. Anyway, congrats on your process. I hope it continues to fund your early retirement. Aloha

Yep.

This thread would be a whole lot more fun knowing no matter what happened they won.