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Old 11-27-2019, 11:01 PM   #1
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better investing

I ran across an investor educational group at one of the money shows in Las Vegas years ago. Over the years I listened to then from time to time and even did a free trial at their org site.

They provide 30 day free trials and have scanning and educational tools at their site.

Recently I received a half price year offer and have been looking at their training and educational materials.

What I find interesting is I believe they claim to have beat the indexes by 2 or 3 % points over quite a number of years.

They use market fundamentals and believe price follows sales and profits and have been around since like the 1950s assuming I'm remembering correctly.

I'm curious if others here have used this instead of the indexing that is quite popular here.
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Old 11-27-2019, 11:13 PM   #2
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Are you talking about:
https://www.aaii.com

"The American Association of Individual Investors is an independent, nonprofit corporation formed for the purpose of assisting individuals in becoming effective managers of their own assets through programs of education, information and research."
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Old 11-27-2019, 11:36 PM   #3
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Sorry, but people that know how to make a lot of money by investing don't sell newsletters. They make a lot of money by investing.
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Old 11-28-2019, 06:37 AM   #4
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Sorry, but people that know how to make a lot of money by investing don't sell newsletters. They make a lot of money by investing.
+1. Save the fees. Index invest on your own.
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Old 11-28-2019, 07:13 AM   #5
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Are you talking about:
https://www.aaii.com

"The American Association of Individual Investors is an independent, nonprofit corporation formed for the purpose of assisting individuals in becoming effective managers of their own assets through programs of education, information and research."
no, better inventing is a different organization that based their meetings as investment clubs. So, not AAII.

But like AAII, this is not a set and forget (or re-balance) method.
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Old 11-28-2019, 07:54 AM   #6
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I wasn't sure if I could put the actual name of the group in here or a link so I put the clues of the name and that it was an org site. So lose the space between the name and add .org or do a G**gle search of the three words and you have it.

And Bingybear is right there is a lot of hands on and a learning curve.
I have been listening/watching to some educational stuff and my mind is wandering.
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Old 11-28-2019, 08:35 AM   #7
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I'm in a better investing(BI). Not real happy with the subscription model for the online tools suite. But they are doing exactly what for profit companies have done. Simply stated principles are that they believe if a firm is growing sales earnings per share should follow. Pay a reasonable price for estimated future growth. I'm in two clubs a virtual club and traditional. My traditional club has been around for over 30 years and our returns are better than SP 500 by a few fractions of a percentage over that time. So clubs are primarily for education and social. Virtual clubs are starting up as well. If you want more info message me.
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Old 11-28-2019, 08:39 AM   #8
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Sorry, but people that know how to make a lot of money by investing don't sell newsletters. They make a lot of money by investing.
I don't know, it's a way to make even more money to then invest.
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Old 11-28-2019, 08:46 AM   #9
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I looked at the website, interesting concept, but they seem to only be interested in picking individual stocks. That method is not for the part time players like me. It's like getting on the court with Serena Williams, she is going to smoke me every time. There has to be losers to get winners, and I don't want to end up being the loser. Success is about making the least amount of mistakes and I know the pros will make less mistakes than me in stock picking.
I am happy being bored with my index funds(18% active funds for entertainment). I try to get my excitement on the golf course!!

Best to you,

VW
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Old 11-28-2019, 08:49 AM   #10
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Sorry, but people that know how to make a lot of money by investing don't sell newsletters. They make a lot of money by investing.
+1

There is no magic. There is no secret sauce.
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Old 11-28-2019, 10:40 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by VanWinkle View Post
I looked at the website, interesting concept, but they seem to only be interested in picking individual stocks. That method is not for the part time players like me. It's like getting on the court with Serena Williams, she is going to smoke me every time." ...
"I am happy being bored with my index funds(18% active funds for entertainment). I try to get my excitement on the golf course!!

Best to you,

VW
I read recently that individual stock ownership is an older person thing. Probably because that was available before mutual funds existed. And of course those I think were before index funds. I realize this board buys index because of efficiency, but I presume younger people buy funds and indexes since they are available though the 401k..

I've wondered what would happen say if the DOW index was so used and purchased that it became hard to purchase the actual 30 stock on the open market.
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Old 11-28-2019, 11:05 AM   #12
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I started an investment club in the mid 90s and we used this program. It wasn't online then, we had a manual and went to the library to do our research. It was a good learning tool for new investors. Eventually I sold all my individual stocks and switched to mutual funds. Less work involved.
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Old 11-28-2019, 11:12 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Ready-4-ER-at-14 View Post
I read recently that individual stock ownership is an older person thing. Probably because that was available before mutual funds existed. And of course those I think were before index funds. I realize this board buys index because of efficiency, but I presume younger people buy funds and indexes since they are available though the 401k..

I've wondered what would happen say if the DOW index was so used and purchased that it became hard to purchase the actual 30 stock on the open market.
Individual stock ownership is not necessarily tied to age. Some investors have inherited individual issues at various times in life. Add to that stock purchase plans and awards that some number of younger workers have.
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Old 11-28-2019, 11:12 AM   #14
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... I realize this board buys index because of efficiency, but I presume younger people buy funds and indexes since they are available though the 401k.
Well. "efficiency" is not quite the word I would use. Pick your favorite statistician and he/she will tell you that you should probably hold 60-100 stocks diversified geographically and by sector in order to have a truly diversified portfolio. IMO this is totally impractical for an individual investor. So the reason we buy funds is that with a broad market fund diversification comes automatically. A total US market fund will hold around 3,500 stocks and a world fund will hold maybe 7000. You can't get more diversified than that.

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... I've wondered what would happen say if the DOW index was so used and purchased that it became hard to purchase the actual 30 stock on the open market.
Well, start with the fact that 30 large US companies is not a diversified portfolio. And thus not a good thing in a portfolio for the long run. But more importantly, the stocks in the Dow are weighted (no, they won't tell you how) so that the index can be viewed consistently as stocks are added and remove. Recently IIRC General Electric was removed and replaced by Walgreens which itself will soon be removed as it is to be taken private. So trying to emulate the Dow or any narrow index with a home-made portfolio is really pretty futile.

Good reading: "The Coffeehouse Investor" by Bill Schultheis and "The Bogleheads Guide to Investing" by Taylor Larimore et al. After those, maybe "A Random Walk Dow Wall Street" by Burton Malkiel (be sure to get the latest edition) and/or "Winning the Loser's Game" by Charles Ellis. These will be cheaper and more valuable than any subscription to a huckster's newsletter.

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...What I find interesting is I believe they claim to have beat the indexes by 2 or 3 % points over quite a number of years. ...
Almost certainly bull$#it. The most common way this claim is made is to look at the actual values of the index at each year end, ignoring completely the dividends that the stock in the index paid. The latter is "total return" and is the only measuring stick that is accurate. Another popular way to snooker the innocents is to cherry-pick the time intervals or to claim backtests as "results." Anyone with an IQ above room temperature can come up with a portfolio that backtests wonderfully. But don't worry about debunking the guy. As @travelover points our, he has already debunked himself.
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Old 11-28-2019, 07:06 PM   #15
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But don't worry about debunking the guy. As @travelover points our, he has already debunked himself.
I assume you meant the person on the BetterInvesting site representing the group claiming to have beat the indexes by a couple % as you have always been cordial to me here.

I guess I am a romantic possibility thinker when I think with hopes and projections about things that seem at least possible to me.

disclaimer: when younger ( think early high school) I spent a little money and time playing around and building "perpetual motion machines" and gravity engines, just to prove to myself that they really didn't work and perhaps physics as we know it was really correct.

So maybe romantic is too generous a word, but I'd still like to find the holy grail of things even if this might not have been it.
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Old 11-28-2019, 07:31 PM   #16
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I assume you meant the person on the BetterInvesting site representing the group claiming to have beat the indexes by a couple % as you have always been cordial to me here. ...
Yes, of course. Abject apologies for being ambiguous. I was referring to the huckster.
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Old 11-29-2019, 12:28 AM   #17
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I wasn't sure if I could put the actual name of the group in here or a link so I put the clues of the name and that it was an org site. So lose the space between the name and add .org or do a G**gle search of the three words and you have it.

And Bingybear is right there is a lot of hands on and a learning curve.
I have been listening/watching to some educational stuff and my mind is wandering.
You are allowed to say the name. I didn't get the clues at all..
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