Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Buying Bonds
Old 07-30-2019, 08:20 AM   #1
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 81
Buying Bonds

Does anyone utilize TreasuryDirect for their bond purchases and active management of their bonds?

Iím tempted to move a bulk of money out of my other accounts and go directly to TreasuryDirect.

I know one of the differences is Competitive vs. non Competitive bidding. Has this been rewarding for those that go with a big bank?

I know that going with Fidelity or TDAmeritrade they can bundle customer purchases and potentially get a better rate, but, they have fees associated with their accounts.

I would like to see some active debates here, as Iím not sure which way I want to go...

P.S... Iím preparing for when I win the lottery and buy Millions of dollars worth of bonds..

P.S.S... Just kidding... Iím just wanting to control more of my bond purchases and cycles
__________________

jmp470 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 07-30-2019, 08:27 AM   #2
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmp470 View Post
I know that going with Fidelity or TDAmeritrade they can bundle customer purchases and potentially get a better rate, but, they have fees associated with their accounts.
What fees does Fidelity have associated with their accounts as it pertains to treasuries?
__________________

njhowie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2019, 08:28 AM   #3
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 81
I don’t remember off the top of my head
jmp470 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2019, 08:35 AM   #4
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,531
For online orders of treasuries there are none.
njhowie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2019, 08:45 AM   #5
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
timo2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Bernalillo, NM
Posts: 2,289
I have a small amount of I Bonds that I use treasury direct for. I have found the treasury direct interface to be easy to use.
__________________

"This is the year 2020 and nothing is OK" ...Lois Griffin
timo2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2019, 08:46 AM   #6
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 81
NJhowie: I have not opened the TreasuryDirect account, yet. So I don’t know how the process works there. If you do have access to it, can you please elaborate on your comment?
jmp470 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2019, 08:51 AM   #7
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmp470 View Post
NJhowie: I have not opened the TreasuryDirect account, yet. So I donít know how the process works there. If you do have access to it, can you please elaborate on your comment?
U.S. Treasury: Auctions and secondary issues online ... $0

https://www.fidelity.com/trading/com...s-margin-rates
njhowie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2019, 08:53 AM   #8
Moderator
sengsational's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,447
I used Treasury Direct for years. I had it linked to Fidelity and was very straight forward to get bonds of various types. The interface is a bit clunky, but effective. I don't think there are separate fees. Of course the only holdings in TD are going to be the bonds you buy inside that portal.
sengsational is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2019, 09:11 AM   #9
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Elyria, OH
Posts: 1,813
Fidelity, Schwab, and TDAmeritrade have no fees for new Treasuries purchased online.

https://www.fidelity.com/why-fidelity/pricing-fees

https://www.tdameritrade.com/pricing.page

https://www.schwab.com/pricing?Spotlight_C_Pricing=

Considering this, I wouldn't open up a separate account with Treasury Direct. I did have an account there many years ago and closed it.
gwraigty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2019, 09:26 AM   #10
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,494
I have used and continue to use both Treasury Direct and Fidelity for Bond Purchases. Fidelity has the advantage of getting an immediate bond and very low fees, if you are holding bonds for any length of time, fees get pretty close to effective rate of zero and if a blip happens in the market with a major move in bond yields you can sell quickly as well. I know they claim no fees but order executions are almost always a few dollars higher than the original estimate for me, in general I don't worry about a couple of bucks of slippage.

Treasury Direct has absolutely no fees, if you are just looking to invest and get the market rate on the day of issuance, and hold to maturity there is nothing wrong, works like a charm, you can purchase and there are no daily quotes to tempt you into selling.
Running_Man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2019, 09:43 AM   #11
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 81
Let me expand my thoughts, now that I got some feedback, as I don’t see a clear cut answer, which there might not be. Also, it gives y’all context to potentially help me better.

My outlook on accounts and how I utilize them (always up for debates here)

1. Active Work Income goes into my checking account, and I keep it at or near zero as possible. I currently keep my emergency fund in USAA Treasury fund (It has management fees... this is what got me thinking...)

2. I’m aggressively paying off my pool, as per my post on should I utilize 0% CCs to pay it down faster and avoid interest. (We decided it wasn’t worth it, but, it was a good mental exercise).

3. I’m actively trading stocks and we decided that we don’t need the money considered as Active Work Income. So I want to put 50% of my profits into Treasuries. I’m trying to decide what’s the best place to do this at.

My trading account is with Trade Station: As they have near zero fees for Military / First Responders. And there futures rates are very low too.

I have a TDAmeritrade account, but, I don’t really utilize them anymore, as there fees are 6.95 per trade. (When I scale into a stock, say I want 10,000 - 30,000 in a stock, I do this over 5 - 10 buys... With TS, I only pay the mandatory fees when I sell, whereas with TD I could end up paying $100’s in fees)

Now onto treasuries. I know it will not generate a ton of money, but, ever little bit helps.

Any advice would be great, thanks.

I hope this helps with what I’m trying to do.
jmp470 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2019, 09:55 AM   #12
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmp470 View Post
Let me expand my thoughts, now that I got some feedback, as I donít see a clear cut answer, which there might not be. Also, it gives yíall context to potentially help me better.

My outlook on accounts and how I utilize them (always up for debates here)

1. Active Work Income goes into my checking account, and I keep it at or near zero as possible. I currently keep my emergency fund in USAA Treasury fund (It has management fees... this is what got me thinking...)

2. Iím aggressively paying off my pool, as per my post on should I utilize 0% CCs to pay it down faster and avoid interest. (We decided it wasnít worth it, but, it was a good mental exercise).

3. Iím actively trading stocks and we decided that we donít need the money considered as Active Work Income. So I want to put 50% of my profits into Treasuries. Iím trying to decide whatís the best place to do this at.

My trading account is with Trade Station: As they have near zero fees for Military / First Responders. And there futures rates are very low too.

I have a TDAmeritrade account, but, I donít really utilize them anymore, as there fees are 6.95 per trade. (When I scale into a stock, say I want 10,000 - 30,000 in a stock, I do this over 5 - 10 buys... With TS, I only pay the mandatory fees when I sell, whereas with TD I could end up paying $100ís in fees)

Now onto treasuries. I know it will not generate a ton of money, but, ever little bit helps.

Any advice would be great, thanks.

I hope this helps with what Iím trying to do.
Thanks for the elaboration - it clears things up.

If you already have the account at TD, then you could simply utilize it for treasuries as someone has indicated they do not charge any fees for them. The benefit of purchasing the treasuries through one of the brokerages is that you will have a much wider selection of treasury issues available to you. On treasury direct, you will only be able to purchase what they are offering at that time. The brokerage will give you a view of the entire treasury market.

Additionally, if you want/need to sell - can you do that on treasury direct or do you have to hold until maturity? With the brokerages, since you are dealing with the market, it is liquid and it is easy to sell immediately if you want/need to.

As far as being an active trader - you should consider Robinhood. I've been on it for 8 months now and it is excellent. There are no commissions whatsoever and the executions are exactly what you'd expect. When there are no commissions, scaling in to a position and out of one is a pleasant experience. When you are paying commissions you're always thinking about how big to size your trades to not be paying lots of commissions. With Robinhood you do not have that mindset - it changes ... you can buy 5 shares or even one share, there's no commission no matter how small the trade. I find you get the best experience using it in conjunction with another platform where you have better information and real-time tools available. I use it alongside my Fidelity active trader and it works well.
njhowie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2019, 10:55 AM   #13
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Elyria, OH
Posts: 1,813
Considering your extra info, think about the level of simplicity you want. It sounds like you're an active trader, but also want an easy and simple place to put your profits. I second njhowie's suggestion of using your existing TDA account for Treasuries. You might also take a look at their selection of NTF ETFs and mutual funds. They should have some Treasury options in those, as well as money market funds, or ultra short bond funds. How about brokered CDs?
gwraigty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2019, 11:20 AM   #14
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 81
Gwraigty, I have to learn more about the Brokered CD’s. I was thinking keep my expirations short term, no more than 52 weeks, as per the liquidity comments above, but, I will also look at TD, and do some online classes with them.

TS is the same as robinhood, it seems. But, I’m really liking TS and I don’t want to change again.
jmp470 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2019, 11:21 AM   #15
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 81
I almost went with Ninja Trader (by far the cleanest interface I have used to date as it comes to viewing charts and the TA indicator I use). But, its limited on who I can interface it with, so I didn’t buy it.
jmp470 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2019, 11:24 AM   #16
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Elyria, OH
Posts: 1,813
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmp470 View Post
Gwraigty, I have to learn more about the Brokered CDís. I was thinking keep my expirations short term, no more than 52 weeks, as per the liquidity comments above, but, I will also look at TD, and do some online classes with them.
If you're looking for 1 year or less, I probably wouldn't bother with CDs then. A money market mutual fund of some sort would have full liquidity and suit your needs.
gwraigty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2019, 11:57 AM   #17
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
OldShooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: City
Posts: 4,657
I don't know why, given the zero or near-zero cost of buying bonds at Schwab, Fido, et al, why anyone would screw around with TreasuryDirect. I don't think there is anything that one can do with TreasuryDirect that you can't do with a brokerage account, including noncompetitive purchases at auctions.
OldShooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2019, 12:39 PM   #18
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 81
@oldshooter For someone like me its about the lack of knowledge (for now) and trying to figure out ease of use and minimal costs.

This will be my first go at treasuries. But, I could doing more and more of it, as I get older and I’m putting more and more money into it.
jmp470 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2019, 01:11 PM   #19
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
OldShooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: City
Posts: 4,657
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmp470 View Post
@oldshooter For someone like me its about the lack of knowledge (for now) and trying to figure out ease of use and minimal costs. ... .
I apologize if I came across as critical; that was not my intention.

Everybody needs education & on a continuing basis. I suggest that you call Schwab and Fido even if you don't have an account with them. Tell them you are a prospective customer and would like to talk to their bond guys to understand options and costs. Then call and ask your questions including about TreasuryDirect. I have found the Schwab guys to be very patient and helpful. Fido is, I expect, going to be the same.

You can also PM me if you want the name and phone of the Schwab bond guy I usually talk to. IIRC he has 14 years in the business and he is not paid on commission. I'm sure he would be happy to contribute to your education as he has mine.
OldShooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2019, 01:17 PM   #20
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 81
I didn’t take it as critical. I was just acknowledging a knowledge gap that I have, that I now want to close. I will work it with TD for now. If I run into road blocks, I will definitely reach out to you.
__________________

jmp470 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Buying begets buying: how stuff has consumed the average American's life candrew Other topics 33 10-26-2015 07:39 PM
Buying individual municipal bonds FIREd FIRE and Money 40 06-25-2008 09:59 PM
New CA munis GO bonds are coming - Anybody buying? If so... Disappointed FIRE and Money 0 04-02-2008 12:56 PM
CA Muni Bonds - Anybody buying? Disappointed FIRE and Money 4 03-02-2008 01:53 PM
Buying government bonds as gifts victw Other topics 1 06-19-2006 08:23 PM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:54 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×