SecondAttempt
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
I should have been more specific. I meant once governments can trace transactions to specific individuals (which is probably already true) then much of the utility of bitcoin will disappear.
Finally gave in….first crypto purchase today
- Thread starter ATXFIRE2034
- Start date
- Status
I should have been more specific. I meant once governments can trace transactions to specific individuals (which is probably already true) then much of the utility of bitcoin will disappear.
I do not believe the main utility of bitcoin is to be untraceable. The main utility is to perform trustworth transactions peer to peer.
My Coinbase account is fully trackable to the Government.
37andhappy
Recycles dryer sheets
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2008
- Messages
- 187
Not correct (as the main utility is a preservation of wealth against money printing and devaluation, and secondly to remove banks or other intermediaries as country party risk). This utility of course exists regardless of any "government tracing".
Tracing to individuals is already possible, for anyone who buys or sells over a regulated exchange with KYC protocols. In this sense Bitcoin is currently pseudonymous, as opposed anonymous, However, this will all change again once the Taproot upgrade takes effect. You will need to google and research this upgrade, but it essentially it removes the need for any kind of "mixing service" for anyone seeking privacy of transactions (as well as enabling a mote efficient form of smart contracts / DeFi).
As for the meaning of "clean coin" it is usually used in 2 different contexts.
The first is when a coin is mined in an ESG friendly / carbon neutral certified mine. (Some investment funds and corporations prefer to only acquire such coins).
Second is when the coin has had no prior transactions or owner after being hashed - a "virgin coin" so to speak. This is usually done for those who want an additional assurance (rightly or wrongly) as to prior ownership of the coin on the block chain. Some may also place a special "collectors value" on a coin with a particular hash number on the blockchain - imagine a dollar note with the number 12345678 as an example. Think of the analogy of a brand new crisp dollar note in the fiat world - the value they represent is the same, but there are some people who have a preference or who pay a premium for personal reasons (whether rational or not).
If you take the analogy of gold, you could have a freshly mined gold bar, or you could have a re-constituted bar based on coins all smelted and mixed together. In the Bitcoin word, this was done by mixing services, but going forward, the Taproot upgrade solves that.
SecondAttempt
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
So why not just buy gold, silver, euros, yen, yuan, AUD, CAD, or CHF? None of those has fluctuated much this year against each other. That's what knowledgable people look for in a wealth preservation asset.
Bitcoin has lost close to 50% over short periods THIS YEAR (Apr 30-May 14)! How did that preserve anyone's wealth?
Gold was up about 4% over that period roughly implying the USD was down about 4%. Other major currencies stayed roughly in balance with each other.
Conclusion: Major currencies are much more stable than bitcoin and therefore much better for preservation of wealth!
Last edited:
Right now Bitcoin is far from anonymous...
Feds Arrest an Alleged $336M Bitcoin-Laundering Kingpin 4/27/21
The alleged administrator of Bitcoin Fog kept the dark web service running for 10 years before the IRS caught up with him.
https://www.wired.com/story/bitcoin-fog-dark-web-cryptocurrency-arrest/
Feds Arrest an Alleged $336M Bitcoin-Laundering Kingpin 4/27/21
The alleged administrator of Bitcoin Fog kept the dark web service running for 10 years before the IRS caught up with him.
https://www.wired.com/story/bitcoin-fog-dark-web-cryptocurrency-arrest/
37andhappy
Recycles dryer sheets
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2008
- Messages
- 187
All of the currencies you have mentioned have declined in terms of purchasing power over time, although yes, their rate of decline as been rather "stable".
Gold and silver - yes these were traditionally used as preservations of wealth against currency devaluations in the analogue world. And indeed, they may still have their place, but in the digital world, Bitcoin is replacing the role that gold traditionally played.
As for volatility, we discussed that earlier. Bitcoin is a great example of how volatility should not be confused with potential for long term value. (Same applies with stocks by the way).
One week - up 1.67%
One month - up 31.2%
Year to date - up 117.8%
Year on year - up 363.48%
Two years - up 584.92%
Three years - up 849.82%
Five years - up 8381.40%
The key of course is to hodl. But yes, if you have the wrong composure, or fail to take a long term view, then you could well be the one who sells on dips (when if anything you should in fact be buying!). So investor education from the outset in this space is important.
Not many people are advocating putting all their net worth into Bitcoin. Rather, it is most sensibly viewed simply as an additional asset class to allocate towards (both for diversification purposes, and as a hedge/insurance against a range of future scenarios that could have a devastating impact on traditional assets and stores of wealth).
The OP is only putting a small portion of his wealth into BTC and ETH, and is "averaging in"
by allocating 1% of his income monthly. To me this is a sensible way for anyone new to Bitcoin to allocate and diversify into this asset class. Such an approach also helps reduce any concerns about volatility (which may help for those with a weaker "hodling" constitution. Good on him I say!
Last edited:
Markola
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Having lived through the arrival of the internet, I am no more confident in one currency or blockchain company emerging from this new pool of promising primordial ooze than Netscape. I’ll wait to see the revolution show up in my index funds. Amazon, Facebook, Netflix, Google all took 1-2 decades to emerge as earnings behemoths.
Last edited:
37andhappy
Recycles dryer sheets
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2008
- Messages
- 187
In Bitcoin-speak, some refer to the opportunity cost of doing this the "Bitcoin ignorance penalty" (in the sense that by the time index funds etc have a broader exposure, the price of Bitcoin will of course be far higher). (There are also some more mean-spirited names I have heard used...).
Bear in mind too, that Bitcoin per se is not a company, so it will not show up directly in any equities index fund (although such funds do give exposure to the extent banks and companies hold Bitcoin on their balance sheets).
I do agree in general though, that index funds are a sensible to get a broad and diverse exposure to many asset classes.
Will be interesting to see if Bitcoin is included in any commodities funds (as commodities in such funds have historically been physical). There will of course also be specific Bitcoin ETFs, which we are starting now to see being listed on many exchanges globally.
But yes, I do think it is correct, that even though you do not actively seek out Bitcoin, it will come to you (one way or another). A good example is it being added and integrated as an option on Mastercard and Visacard networks (which many of us are part of) or PayPal, or Square, or Twitter etc. No need to actively seek to own it or use it, but it does have a stealthy way of creeping and expanding into all branches of the financial system over time.
Last edited:
frayne
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
What are the off ramps to get US dollars out of Bitcoin ? What actual goods and services can bitcoin be used to purchase, can you settle debt or pay taxes with bitcoin ?
Apparently you can link your bank account to the major crypto exchanges like Coinbase (now a listed stock) and ACH USD after selling your crypto on the exchange. I think other companies like PayPal and Square also allow similar conversions.
I did a quick Google for companies that accept payment in bitcoin and apparently Home Depot, Starbux, New Egg and others already do.
https://www.yahoo.com/now/10-major-companies-accept-bitcoin-190340692.html
A few universities including the Wharton Business School are allowing some courses to be paid for in crypto.
El Salvador has declared bitcoin legal tender, so you should be able to pay taxes there. I have read that several other small countries are planning similar moves.
target2019
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Aaron Rodgers is off the sideline!
https://www.packersnews.com/story/s...-takes-portion-his-salary-bitcoin/6243761001/
"Dressed in a John Wick Halloween costume (which was apparently why Rodgers grew out his hair), Rodgers added that he’s giving out $1 million in Bitcoin away in conjunction with Cash App."
I have -0- invested in coin, but do mine a little. Wish I had that many fans and could sprinkle the coin love around.
Pretty simple as an investment.
Crypto > Exchange like Coinbase > local bank.
Capital gains apply. Unfortunately they also apply if you try to buy some thing with Bitcoin. As it would using gold.
target2019
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
In Philly you walk up to a Bitcoin ATM and pull out dollars if you need cash.
There are also some vendors who accept payment in coin. You'd use an app on the phone in both cases.
I agree with this but there is some history with crypto now. Bitcoin is 12 years old and Etherium is 6 years old. Many others are just one or two years.
If we take Etherium as an example. This is a technology that allows companies like Amazon to run on blockchain via the Etherium network. Think of it like an operating system (Mac/Windows/Linux) where applications run on top.
My belief is that buying Etherium is like investing in the internet as a system and not trying to pick individual winners like Netscape. Having said that there are competing 'systems' in the same way there are competing operating systems for computers
How about a top 20 crypto index fund?
https://crypto20.com/en/
Or simply buying Bitcoin and Etherium will cover 90% of the market.
In the US at least you would need to record your basis and capital gain/loss on every transaction if you want your tax return to be legal.
The Mastercard announcement is interesting (here). It doesn’t say Mastercard is accepting or even transacting any cryptocurrencies. It does say MC will work with “ merchants, banks and fintechs in the U.S. to embrace and offer a broad set of cryptocurrency solutions and services”. So, the merchants, banks and fintechs offer crypto services and transactions. It’s not clear what exactly Mastercard will do, the announcement did not shed any light on that at all. It looks like this initiative may be a first step in trying to find a way to stay in business in the era of digital currency.
Setting aside the rhetoric for a bit, Central Banks are exploring digital currencies. If a digital currency were adopted, for example, by the US Central Bank, it would have the potential to disrupt the current payments infrastructure, which is a key and critical business of banks and credit card companies. Companies like Mastercard, Visa, and even PayPal have to find a way to stay relevant and in business in the era of digital currency.
Keep in mind, cryptocurrency and digital coin are not the same. Crypto is still considered a high risk asset, created out of nothing and with the potential to return to that value at any time.
Digital currency, under study by most major Central Banks around the role, is currency in digital form, registered, regulated and backed by the financial, regulatory and legal system.
Setting aside the rhetoric for a bit, Central Banks are exploring digital currencies. If a digital currency were adopted, for example, by the US Central Bank, it would have the potential to disrupt the current payments infrastructure, which is a key and critical business of banks and credit card companies. Companies like Mastercard, Visa, and even PayPal have to find a way to stay relevant and in business in the era of digital currency.
Keep in mind, cryptocurrency and digital coin are not the same. Crypto is still considered a high risk asset, created out of nothing and with the potential to return to that value at any time.
Digital currency, under study by most major Central Banks around the role, is currency in digital form, registered, regulated and backed by the financial, regulatory and legal system.
Markola
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
^^^^The Venmo Visa card also offers this.
frayne
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Aren't cryptos a threat against already established entities like swift ?https://www.swift.com/about-us/our-future/swift-platform-evolution
Mod Note:
We recognize there is interest in our community on the topic of digital currency including Bitcoin, Blockchain, etc. However, to avoid confusion, we have decided a single dedicated thread makes the most sense at this time.
Accordingly, this and other current threads have been closed, and continuing discussion should take place here:
The Cryptocurrency Thread
We recognize there is interest in our community on the topic of digital currency including Bitcoin, Blockchain, etc. However, to avoid confusion, we have decided a single dedicated thread makes the most sense at this time.
Accordingly, this and other current threads have been closed, and continuing discussion should take place here:
The Cryptocurrency Thread
- Status
