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Old 02-05-2024, 09:13 AM   #61
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I'm sure in 2-3 years we will all forget (again) how terrible QC is at that company but I just don't want to support them by holding their stock.

Logically, I understand that you can't make these planes perfect: they would cost too much and require ticket prices to go way up. So 100-300 dead passengers every now and then is probably an acceptable price for running a business. Cars, guns, trains, boats etc. - all these industries deal with accidents and we happily own their stock. Besides, worldwide demand for new planes is too big for one company - Airbus - to handle it. I'm not even going into military contracts which have nothing to do with market.

So... all that is logic but I don't care about being logical - I don't trust them, I don't like them and I hope they will fail. They certainly deserve to.

How long did you own the shares, and did you make any gains on the stock?

VW
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Old 02-05-2024, 04:07 PM   #62
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Over the past number of years I believe that Boeing senior management has failed it's employees, it's shareholders, it's Board of Directors, it's supplier partners, and its customers big time. Such a shame.

Quality starts at the very top. Clearly this has not been the modus operandi of Boeing leadership for quite some time.

The real question is what needs to happen to change this corporate culture from the very top down to the assembly floor?? Words are meaningless at this point.

Their reputation is in shatters. Think what that does to employee morale and customer confidence!
In one sense, I totally agree with your statement.
But...
There have been complaints for decades that the various European governments find ways, large and small, to subsidize Airbus. IIRC, the unions at Boeing have gotten some nice contracts in recent years. So perhaps Boeing feels backed into a corner, they have to scrimp and save and cut corners to be competitive with Airbus on price and delivery times, or they'll lose their customers.

Only Boeing knows for sure, and I'm not totally sure they know all of it. Might be similar to GM vs Japanese automakers in the past. Good management is an important part of success, but some things are beyond management control.
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Old 02-05-2024, 04:20 PM   #63
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What Boeing commercial customers are saying/feeling.

Not such a great reference when several of your largest customers feel obliged to place their own QA staff in your shop because of your continued history of serious QA issues.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/05/busin...ark/index.html
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Old 02-09-2024, 03:36 AM   #64
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It's time for a management philosophy change at the Boeing company. It morphed from an engineering based company with the mission statement of "Be the #1 aerospace company in the world" to an MBA based company with the mission statement of "Be #1 in shareholder value". I worked there when it happened in the late 1990's. It's taken a while to weed out all the old values but they have finally accomplished their goal. Too bad they managed to kill the company in doing so.

Note - I understand that Boeing wasn't perfect before the Phil Condit era, but since then, it's been a long slide of questionable business decisions. Promoting Alan Mullaly to the CEO was the last hope they had of reversing the slide. Too bad they passed on him.
I have longtime friends (husband and wife) who worked at Boeing (now retired) and foretold this day about 20 years ago. I always hoped they were exaggerating and just whining about how bad it was and how far off track Boeing was getting. Nope, not whining nor exaggerating at all.
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Old 02-09-2024, 10:28 PM   #65
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What Boeing commercial customers are saying/feeling.

Not such a great reference when several of your largest customers feel obliged to place their own QA staff in your shop because of your continued history of serious QA issues.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/05/busin...ark/index.html
Actually, my understanding is that this is common in the aircraft and satellite industry, as well as automotive OEMs.
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Old 02-12-2024, 08:14 AM   #66
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I’ve just read a very good article on the subject: https://www.businessinsider.com/boei...-street-2024-2

It’s that kind of thinking that led me to selling BA shares. Interestingly I’m also a big Apple stock holder and I couldn’t help thinking what a different way of governing these two corporations represent. Apple just released Vision Pro which is just another innovative product in their portfolio. They are consistently on the vanguard of technology - we already forgot that it’s thanks to Apple, digital music is the norm (iTunes store) as well as digital payments (Apple Wallet). They are gently mocked for their ideas (Apple Watch, wireless headphones) only to become leaders in the industry. Even things like their TV shows - a side hustle - are top notch quality (have you seen Slow Horses and Foundation?!). I want to hold their stock because they are the example of what American ingenuity and success should be.
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Old 02-12-2024, 07:46 PM   #67
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...Apple just released Vision Pro which is just another innovative product in their portfolio. They are consistently on the vanguard of technology - we already forgot that its thanks to Apple, digital music is the norm (iTunes store) as well as digital payments (Apple Wallet)...
While I agree these are very differently run companies, I think you're giving Apple a bit too much credit for innovation here. There have been VR and AR products for years. Likewise digital music and payments. Apple made them popular, but didn't invent them. Whether because of true quality or just very clever advertising. But you certainly can't go wrong buying stock in a company whose products people will line up to pay a premium for. Fashion industries always have high profit margins.
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Old 02-13-2024, 08:33 AM   #68
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How long did you own the shares, and did you make any gains on the stock?

VW
A few years. I bought it shortly after Max 8 disasters thinking that after such a hard lesson, Boeing will completely change and come back stronger and better.
I haven't lost money on it but whatever gains there were, they are not memorable.
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Old 02-13-2024, 08:53 AM   #69
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While I agree these are very differently run companies, I think you're giving Apple a bit too much credit for innovation here. There have been VR and AR products for years. Likewise digital music and payments. Apple made them popular, but didn't invent them. Whether because of true quality or just very clever advertising. But you certainly can't go wrong buying stock in a company whose products people will line up to pay a premium for. Fashion industries always have high profit margins.
This is a common come back to Apple fanboys (which I admittedly am). But my point stands: they are investing in R&D, they diversify, they pay great attention to detail and quality, they respect the customer, they managed to elevate the retail experience to a cult-like level and their products are pretty and long lived. While paying dividends and conducting stock buybacks. What's not to like?

Not everything that Apple touches turns to Gold. Their Maps app is a never-ending unusable mess (and I try VERY hard to like it) and Siri is a joke. So far from perfect.
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Old 02-13-2024, 09:09 AM   #70
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...they managed to elevate the retail experience to a cult-like level...
I try to avoid joining cults. Apparently I'm in the minority on this.

I can't argue that their stock is worth buying, or that they produce quality hardware.

I will quibble with the idea that they respect their users. It may be true that their lowest-common-denominator approach works for most users who don't want, or know how, to do anything more complex than drag and tap. And that creating a fashion brand which people love to be seen carrying is good marketing. But respect? I'd say it's more like a clever way to take advantage of human weaknesses. Still, I admire a good con game.
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