Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Nuclear Investing?
Old 09-26-2021, 07:23 PM   #1
Dryer sheet aficionado
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Taos
Posts: 45
Nuclear Investing?

Is anyone here invested in nuclear energy companies? I'm not, but some investors, like Gates and Buffett, claim that nukes are a safer energy source than wind or solar.

Here is an article that describes 7 nuclear companies that currently have active and optimistic plans for the future:

https://investorplace.com/2021/06/7-...s-nuclear-bet/

- Roy
rtroxel is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 09-26-2021, 09:50 PM   #2
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
USGrant1962's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: DC area
Posts: 1,856
I'm in that business and would not recommend it as an investment. Way too much regulation and politics (but I repeat myself). Regarding the companies/concepts in the article:

-Hydrogen and fuel cells have been "almost here" for 20 years or more, and will probably be the same in 20 years (just like fusion power)
-The domestic uranium market is on life support due to lack of demand, regulations, and foreign uranium supplies. There is a price spike going on, but no reason to think it will last - US is shutting down reactors and not building new ones (well, 2 new reactors coming online after a dozen or so shut down recently).
-The other companies in the article were non-nuke and just as speculative (solar and wave energy)

So any investment in this stuff needs to be very long term, perhaps longer than one's investing horizon?
__________________
FI and Semi-ER March 24, 2017
Consulting to stay engaged

"All models are wrong, some are useful." - George Box
There is always a well-known solution to every human problem: neat, plausible, and wrong.” - H.L. Mencken
USGrant1962 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2021, 10:15 PM   #3
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,117
^^^ Uh oh. No nuke, no renewable energy. Does this mean fossil fuel lives on?
__________________
"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
NW-Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2021, 06:41 AM   #4
Recycles dryer sheets
Christine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 485
I believe solar will replace all other energy sources over time.


* The cost of solar is going down and down.
* It does not leak radiation like the quite expensive to run nuclear plants
* It does not pollute like the coal, gas and oil plants
* It does not explode now and then like hydrogen filling stations and production plants do
* It is not costly to maintain like wind power stations
* They can be located on roofs and be almost invisible unlike wind mills and nuclear plants
Christine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2021, 07:06 AM   #5
Full time employment: Posting here.
HawkeyeNFO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Inside the Beltway
Posts: 915
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtroxel View Post
....7 nuclear companies that currently have active and optimistic plans for the future....
Any company should have an optimistic plan for the future. At least the plan they tell potential investors. But that doesn't mean the plan is realistic.

My opinion, nuclear is a horrible investment right now.
HawkeyeNFO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2021, 07:43 AM   #6
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: St Pete
Posts: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christine View Post
I believe solar will replace all other energy sources over time.


* The cost of solar is going down and down.
* It does not leak radiation like the quite expensive to run nuclear plants
* It does not pollute like the coal, gas and oil plants
* It does not explode now and then like hydrogen filling stations and production plants do
* It is not costly to maintain like wind power stations
* They can be located on roofs and be almost invisible unlike wind mills and nuclear plants

As long as you don't want to use any electricity when it is dark out! If I was going to play in the energy realm it would be a play on energy storage..once that nut is cracked sporadic renewables such as wind and solar become much more feasible without fossil fuel backup. The technologies are pretty interesting.
__________________
FIREd 7/2021 at age 47
FLSUnFIRE is offline   Reply With Quote
Nuclear Investing?
Old 09-27-2021, 08:28 AM   #7
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Markola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Twin Cities
Posts: 2,651
Nuclear Investing?

Georgia Power is building nuke plants and, as usual with this technology that was sold to Americans in the 50s as providing energy that “will be too cheap to meter”, they are way, way, way over budget. And this country still has no idea where to put the nuclear waste. Here in Minnesota, at our two nuke plants, it’s placed in casks alongside the Mississippi River, with millions of people and the Gulf of Mexico downstream. I would not put a nickel into that historic context of consistent financial, political and scientific miscalculation. Way too any liabilities.
Markola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2021, 09:01 AM   #8
Moderator
Jerry1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 5,733
When they get that mess cleaned up in Fukushima, then you might want to evaluate whether or not you want to get into nuclear energy.
__________________
Every day when I open my eyes now it feels like a Saturday - David Gray
Jerry1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2021, 09:08 AM   #9
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Chuckanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: West of the Mississippi
Posts: 12,872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markola View Post
And this country still has no idea where to put the nuclear waste.
Yucca mountain in Nevada. But, like many things surrounding nuclear power it's controversial.

https://connectusfund.org/17-pros-an...ste-repository

Quote:
The Yucca Mountain nuclear waste repository is a deep geological repository for spent nuclear fuel and highly radioactive waste products generated in the United States. The site is adjacent to the Nevada Test Site in Nye County, NV which is about 80 miles northwest of Las Vegas. Approval for the project came from the 107th U.S. Congress in 2002, but federal funding for the site ended in 2011 with an amendment to the Depart of Defense and Full-Year Continuing Appropriations Act.


Without the Yucca Mountain nuclear waste repository, there is no long-term storage site for high-level radioactive waste disposal. The government and American utilities currently use the Waste Isolation Pilot Plant in New Mexico to manage waste or have resorted to dry-cast storage on-site using steel and concrete casks.
__________________
The worst decisions are usually made in times of anger and impatience.
Chuckanut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2021, 09:18 AM   #10
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 23,818
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLSUnFIRE View Post
As long as you don't want to use any electricity when it is dark out! If I was going to play in the energy realm it would be a play on energy storage..once that nut is cracked sporadic renewables such as wind and solar become much more feasible without fossil fuel backup. The technologies are pretty interesting.
Which storage technologies are you following? I do find them 'interesting', but appear to be pretty questionable in terms of economics and side effects for the foreseeable future.

-ERD50
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2021, 09:35 AM   #11
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,117
A few years ago, Tesla made the news when it built the Hornsdale battery storage in Australia for the firm Neoen. The storage capacity was 194 MWh. The two companies are working together again to build a larger battery in Victoria with 450 MWh of storage.

The largest battery in the world is the Moss Landing project in Monterey California, being built by Vistra, LG, and Fluence. The immediate goal is 1,200 MWh, with plans to expand the capacity to 6,000 MWh.

How do the above numbers compare to the electricity usage by the US?

In 2020, with a reduction in usage caused by Covid, the US still used 3.8 trillion kWh. That's more than 10 billion kWh/day. It would take 1,700 plants of the 6,000 MWh capacity to store a day's worth of use.

PS. A capacity of 6,000 MWh is equivalent to 73,000 Tesla 3 Long Range batteries (82 kWh each).
__________________
"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
NW-Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2021, 01:28 PM   #12
Recycles dryer sheets
Christine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 485
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLSUnFIRE View Post
As long as you don't want to use any electricity when it is dark out! If I was going to play in the energy realm it would be a play on energy storage..once that nut is cracked sporadic renewables such as wind and solar become much more feasible without fossil fuel backup. The technologies are pretty interesting.

This will be solved by adding batteries to the grid. Like those gigantic ones that NW-Bound described. But also lot's of smaller batteries like the power packs you get if you install Tesla Solar roofs. And something in between. And with modern tech these will work together to balance usage locally and on the large scale.



The battery in Hornsdale NW-Bound mentioned was paid down in less that two years if my memory serves. Battery costs is coming down these days with new tech and materials combined with mass production effects.
Christine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2021, 02:32 PM   #13
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Chuckanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: West of the Mississippi
Posts: 12,872
I must admit I am curious.

Are those home storage batteries the ones made with lithium? That's the element that creates highly flammable hydrogen gas when it comes into contact with water. I don't think I would want that in my house.
__________________
The worst decisions are usually made in times of anger and impatience.
Chuckanut is offline   Reply With Quote
Nuclear Investing?
Old 09-27-2021, 02:53 PM   #14
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Markola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Twin Cities
Posts: 2,651
Nuclear Investing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
Yucca mountain in Nevada. But, like many things surrounding nuclear power it's controversial.

https://connectusfund.org/17-pros-an...ste-repository


The article makes my point perfectly: This country has no idea what to do with nuclear waste. After spending billions to study the site, Yucca Mountain has been mothballed since 2011, when Harry Reid of Nevada was Senate Majority Leader.
Markola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2021, 08:25 PM   #15
Recycles dryer sheets
Christine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
I must admit I am curious.

Are those home storage batteries the ones made with lithium? That's the element that creates highly flammable hydrogen gas when it comes into contact with water. I don't think I would want that in my house.

I am no chemist. But it's the same battery as in this car driving in deep water:


Christine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2021, 08:52 PM   #16
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 23,818
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christine View Post
This will be solved by adding batteries to the grid. Like those gigantic ones that NW-Bound described. But also lot's of smaller batteries like the power packs you get if you install Tesla Solar roofs. And something in between. And with modern tech these will work together to balance usage locally and on the large scale.



The battery in Hornsdale NW-Bound mentioned was paid down in less that two years if my memory serves. Battery costs is coming down these days with new tech and materials combined with mass production effects.
But you need to put some scale on that. Illinois has ~ 20 coal plants rated at an average of ~ 800MW. if we need to cover a 4 day shortfall, say solar/wind running at ~ 25%, that's 3 days equivalent we need from storage. So 72 hours * 800MW * 20 plants = 1,152,000 MWhrs. Relative to a 100 kWhr Tesla, that's like the battery capacity of 11,520,000 Teslas! Just for Illinois! Just for coal!

Now replace the NG turbines and the Nukes when they get decommissioned. Now replace those batteries after 15 years or so (so maybe almost another million per year for replacements at that point?).

Oh, and then charge all those electric cars! And no, the Teslas won't be the backup when bad weather for renewables is predicted - most of them will want to stock up and horde it - like we've seen.

It's a lot tougher to get 'payback' when some of it has to be on hand for the '100 year' events.

-ERD50
ERD50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2021, 09:08 PM   #17
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Chuckanut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: West of the Mississippi
Posts: 12,872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christine View Post
I am no chemist. But it's the same battery as in this car driving in deep water:

I don't think comparing a car driving through water to a house on fire is comparable.
__________________
The worst decisions are usually made in times of anger and impatience.
Chuckanut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2021, 10:56 PM   #18
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Sunset's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Spending the Kids Inheritance and living in Chicago
Posts: 12,317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckanut View Post
I must admit I am curious.

Are those home storage batteries the ones made with lithium? That's the element that creates highly flammable hydrogen gas when it comes into contact with water. I don't think I would want that in my house.
My parents house had a large , probably 300 gal fuel tank in the basement about 6 feet from the furnace. I'm glad it never leaked.

Lots of folks store 20-30 gals of gas in their car in the garage attached to the house without a second thought.

Life is just dangerous.
__________________
Fortune favors the prepared mind. ... Louis Pasteur
Sunset is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2021, 10:58 PM   #19
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Sunset's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Spending the Kids Inheritance and living in Chicago
Posts: 12,317
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christine View Post
I believe solar will replace all other energy sources over time.


* The cost of solar is going down and down.
* It does not leak radiation like the quite expensive to run nuclear plants
* It does not pollute like the coal, gas and oil plants
* It does not explode now and then like hydrogen filling stations and production plants do
* It is not costly to maintain like wind power stations
* They can be located on roofs and be almost invisible unlike wind mills and nuclear plants
And the power generation could be very distributed , basically invulnerable to single point of failure like bombing.
__________________
Fortune favors the prepared mind. ... Louis Pasteur
Sunset is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2021, 10:58 PM   #20
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
NW-Bound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,117
Lithium batteries can be dangerous if abused. They are everywhere now though, in all cell phones, laptops, notebooks, cameras, etc...
__________________
"Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities Can Make You Commit Atrocities" - Voltaire (1694-1778)
NW-Bound is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Nuclear Power Plant Construction haha Active Investing, Market Strategies & Alternative Assets 16 08-12-2007 08:50 PM
14.50 an hour pay armed nuclear reactor security guards! dumpster56 Other topics 9 03-16-2007 08:35 PM
Ways to finagle a ride on a nuclear submarine Nords Other topics 1 10-24-2006 09:38 AM
Nuclear power plant I am a dope dumpster56 FIRE and Money 33 08-16-2006 03:07 PM
Nords-Q on Strategic Role of Nuclear Subs haha Other topics 21 12-14-2004 04:25 PM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:21 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.