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Personal Performance on Vanguard
Old 11-16-2023, 08:43 AM   #1
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Personal Performance on Vanguard

The Vanguard personal performance page shows a much lower rate of return than I calculate. Does VG include CDs and treasury interest? I read the description of how IRR is calculated but I don't understand it. I realize they update at the EOM or periodically. How do you calculate your rate of return?
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Old 11-16-2023, 08:48 AM   #2
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I have accounts with Vanguard also, but have found the money chimp calculator to be more reliable including interest(it works from starting amount, ending amount, and additions and withdrawals).


Investment Return Calculator: Measure your Portfolio's Performance
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Old 11-16-2023, 08:56 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by VanWinkle View Post
I have accounts with Vanguard also, but have found the money chimp calculator to be more reliable including interest(it works from starting amount, ending amount, and additions and withdrawals).


Investment Return Calculator: Measure your Portfolio's Performance
Chrome won't let me access that calculator. Is there a better link?
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Old 11-16-2023, 08:59 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Rianne View Post
Chrome won't let me access that calculator. Is there a better link?
I'm on a Chromebook and it works for me, but try to go to money chimp and you can find it there.

Moneychimp: Stock Market Investing, Online Calculators, Valuation Models, and more.
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Old 11-16-2023, 09:20 AM   #5
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Chrome won't let me access that calculator. Is there a better link?
It's not a secure link. So your Chrome is set up to reject those instead of adding a warning.

They don't support https.
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Old 11-17-2023, 09:57 AM   #6
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It's not a secure link. So your Chrome is set up to reject those instead of adding a warning.

They don't support https.
Got it, thanks. I'll keep it that way.
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Old 11-17-2023, 01:04 PM   #7
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The Vanguard personal performance page shows a much lower rate of return than I calculate. Does VG include CDs and treasury interest? I read the description of how IRR is calculated but I don't understand it. I realize they update at the EOM or periodically. How do you calculate your rate of return?
Interestingly, I just calculated my year to date for my retirement portfolio over at VG. I am suspect of the "dashboard."

I took the difference between the beginning of the year value (A) and the value at the end of the day yesterday (B) - then divided that difference (X) by the beginning value.

B - A = X

X/A

Now, I am not known for my mathematical abilities so if someone wants to correct this . . .
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Old 11-17-2023, 05:37 PM   #8
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Interestingly, I just calculated my year to date for my retirement portfolio over at VG. I am suspect of the "dashboard."

I took the difference between the beginning of the year value (A) and the value at the end of the day yesterday (B) - then divided that difference (X) by the beginning value.

B - A = X

X/A

Now, I am not known for my mathematical abilities so if someone wants to correct this . . .

How much difference did you get?


If they calculate 10% and I calculate 10.5% I really do not care... BTW, I do not calculate my return so I do not know how far off it might be..
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Old 11-17-2023, 06:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rianne View Post
The Vanguard personal performance page shows a much lower rate of return than I calculate. Does VG include CDs and treasury interest? I read the description of how IRR is calculated but I don't understand it. I realize they update at the EOM or periodically. How do you calculate your rate of return?
I don't really, but when I do I use the Vanguard numbers.

IRR can be thought of this way:

Imagine you had a savings account at a bank, and into this savings account you made deposits and withdrawals in the same amounts and at the same times as your contributions and withdrawals from your Vanguard account. The IRR is the interest rate that the bank would have to pay in order for the ending balances to be the same.

So IRR takes into account the size, timing, and direction of transactions in the applicable account.

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Interestingly, I just calculated my year to date for my retirement portfolio over at VG. I am suspect of the "dashboard."

I took the difference between the beginning of the year value (A) and the value at the end of the day yesterday (B) - then divided that difference (X) by the beginning value.

B - A = X

X/A

Now, I am not known for my mathematical abilities so if someone wants to correct this . . .
Yeah, that's a simple way to do it and doesn't take into account the timing and size of deposits and withdrawals during the year, as mentioned above in my description of IRR. It would be very unlikely that your math would match Vanguard's since you're calculating two different things two different ways.
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Old 11-17-2023, 06:24 PM   #10
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How much difference did you get?


If they calculate 10% and I calculate 10.5% I really do not care... BTW, I do not calculate my return so I do not know how far off it might be..

I do not see that my dashboard gives me a year to date by percentage just a dollar amount. I see a percentage based upon a ten-year history, but this is not accurate, and at this point I cannot calculate it. (The ten-year dashboard history does not reflect my actual return due to funds being transferred out - and subsequently rolled in.)
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Old 11-18-2023, 03:25 AM   #11
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I do not see that my dashboard gives me a year to date by percentage just a dollar amount. I see a percentage based upon a ten-year history, but this is not accurate, and at this point I cannot calculate it. (The ten-year dashboard history does not reflect my actual return due to funds being transferred out - and subsequently rolled in.)
Yes, VG does not give a performance rate for YTD. The one year return it gives is a rolling 12 month return.

Their website does say that the performance returns are only estimates. I'm sure one can get more accurate performance returns using the Excel XIRR function.

Quote:
How we calculate performance
Personal performance uses a dollar-weighted return formula called internal rate of return (IRR) to calculate your personal rate of return. IRR compares the initial purchase prices of the investment against the current price while also factoring in new money coming into your investment and how long that investment has been held. Because IRR takes new money and time into account, your personal rate of return will likely differ from the posted rates of return for a specific asset in your portfolio.
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Performance limitations
Your personal performance figures are an estimate only and should not be solely relied upon in making investment decisions. Your personal performance figures are calculated using an internal rate of return formula, which is a dollar-weighted return. Investment return provides the total dollar amount that was made or lost based on the simple formula of balance minus amount invested. Amount invested is determined by netting all trading and settlement fund activity starting with a position level and building to an account level.
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Old 11-18-2023, 08:42 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarieIG View Post
I do not see that my dashboard gives me a year to date by percentage just a dollar amount. I see a percentage based upon a ten-year history, but this is not accurate, and at this point I cannot calculate it. (The ten-year dashboard history does not reflect my actual return due to funds being transferred out - and subsequently rolled in.)
It is an area where Vanguard underperforms.

Performance for a fund can be looked up. So I used to enter all my symbols in a spreadsheet, add a column for balance, add a column for percentage of total, add a YTD performance number (from Morningstar or other). Then you can roughly calculate the YTD performance. That had it's flaws though.

For more accuracy you need all flows to and from these accounts to get your performance number.

I let go of chasing this number, and now look at a benchmark or two for approximate performance YTD.

Or you may be able to save a portfolio with one of the online tools and see a YTD performance number. But unless you can enter all of your transactions, it's just a theoretical performance based on your asset allocation. Here's a free tool.

https://portfolioslab.com/portfolio/...jrlm81voe775lc
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Old 11-18-2023, 08:54 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by MarieIG View Post
Interestingly, I just calculated my year to date for my retirement portfolio over at VG. I am suspect of the "dashboard."

I took the difference between the beginning of the year value (A) and the value at the end of the day yesterday (B) - then divided that difference (X) by the beginning value.

B - A = X

X/A

Now, I am not known for my mathematical abilities so if someone wants to correct this . . .
There is a big difference when I do this calculation and what VG gives at every point in time. 3% points + difference.
We have not WD from our portfolio, as DH just fully RE in July and we have cash + his income for spending. Over the course of the last 2 years, I sold all bond funds and bought CDs and treasuries (laddered). So there was a small loss there b/c I did this in early 2022. We reinvest all dividends in the taxable part. So there was a lot of moving around but no WD.
Vanguard gives me ~ 5% performance, but using MarieIG method I get over 8%.
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Old 11-18-2023, 09:05 AM   #14
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There is a big difference when I do this calculation and what VG gives at every point in time. 3% points + difference.
We have not WD from our portfolio, as DH just fully RE in July and we have cash + his income for spending. Over the course of the last 2 years, I sold all bond funds and bought CDs and treasuries (laddered). So there was a small loss there b/c I did this in early 2022. We reinvest all dividends in the taxable part. So there was a lot of moving around but no WD.
Vanguard gives me ~ 5% performance, but using MarieIG method I get over 8%.
As a practical matter I'm not aware of CDs and treasuries earning an 8% return in the last two years so . . .

When I tried to find the original article with the formula I used, I was harassed by some type of AI chat. I did find this article in investopedia.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/rateofreturn.asp
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Old 11-18-2023, 09:16 AM   #15
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If you go to the downlaod center, you can get csv files for every transaction for a given period.

Then the work begins.

I think you may be looking over multiple periods, such as 2022 and 2023, maybe?
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Old 11-18-2023, 09:46 AM   #16
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As a practical matter I'm not aware of CDs and treasuries earning an 8% return in the last two years so . . .
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/rateofreturn.asp
No, I mean total portfolio RR. 40% of our portfolio is stocks. My Roth alone has an 18% RR all in stock index funds. Personal performance allows you to break down each category of the portfolio, down to one fund. The overall RR is way off my calculations but as explained in other posts the changes are calculated in different ways.

Edit: We were starting to hemorrhage in bond funds, negative territory. Thanks to a thread on this site I followed that advice which stopped the hemorrhaging and now we have a good return on fixed income. 4+%
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Old 11-18-2023, 10:39 AM   #17
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No, I mean total portfolio RR. 40% of our portfolio is stocks. My Roth alone has an 18% RR all in stock index funds. Personal performance allows you to break down each category of the portfolio, down to one fund. The overall RR is way off my calculations but as explained in other posts the changes are calculated in different ways.

Edit: We were starting to hemorrhage in bond funds, negative territory. Thanks to a thread on this site I followed that advice which stopped the hemorrhaging and now we have a good return on fixed income. 4+%
I mentioned using the download center so that you can find all transactions and then precisely calculate XIRR in a Google Sheet or Excel. But you can look at various numbers as you're doing, and estimate.

Performance is a slippery number indeed.
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Old 11-18-2023, 11:20 AM   #18
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I use the Bogleheads Returns spreadsheet to track my personal performance. Requires monthly entry of account balances, contributions & withdrawals, but only take a few minutes once a month.
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Old 11-18-2023, 11:37 AM   #19
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Vanguard updates the performance percentage at end of the month. Under the performance percentage you will see as 10/31/2023. The $ figure is as of yesterday, but the percentage is as of October 31. If the markets remain where they are, you should see a big jump when itís updated to 11/30
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Old 11-18-2023, 12:25 PM   #20
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There is a big difference when I do this calculation and what VG gives at every point in time. 3% points + difference.
We have not WD from our portfolio, as DH just fully RE in July and we have cash + his income for spending. Over the course of the last 2 years, I sold all bond funds and bought CDs and treasuries (laddered). So there was a small loss there b/c I did this in early 2022. We reinvest all dividends in the taxable part. So there was a lot of moving around but no WD.
Vanguard gives me ~ 5% performance, but using MarieIG method I get over 8%.
Buying laddered treasuries did not stop the losses of 2022, it just made the losses hard to see if all you look at is the face value. In the performance module, Vanguard would presumably be pricing them at market, exposing the losses. Contracts that are paying less than today's market rates are worth less than a new, similar duration ones, meaning you continued to lose value along with the rest of us.

CD's are somewhat different in that you can sell with an interest penalty if you fall too far behind market rates, so would not be as volatile as a bond, but of course that downside protection means you get lower upside if things turn around (Vanguard's BND is up almost 4% in the last month, your CD's held value better in the downswing, but don't participate in any rebound).

Vanguard's explanation of what they do is:
Your personal performance figures are calculated using an internal rate of return formula, which is a dollar-weighted return. Investment return provides the total dollar amount that was made or lost based on the simple formula of balance minus amount invested. Amount invested is determined by netting all trading and settlement fund activity starting with a position level and building to an account level.

This sounds like they are doing it correctly, which is dollar and time weighted.
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