Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-19-2020, 09:25 AM   #5141
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,843
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
Bob, you took this issue trading like a dog to a bone...Im definitely in second place behind you here in gains...But your enthusiasm for the game dragged me into more profits than I would have had if you had stayed quiet.
I guess that's the purpose here, sharing information. People can then make their own decision. It was you who got me noodling over the PCG issues, they were greatly disconnected from each other and other than rate, I didn't see much other reason why. I saw what I thought was an opportunity and glad it help fund your next steak and wine dinner
__________________

bobandsherry is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 05-19-2020, 12:53 PM   #5142
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 15,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
Yes if they so desire or they will offer public tenders. Obviously companies have gotten wise and dont issue uncallables anymore. Now some owner convertibles bust and pretty much become non callable also by accident..But there are very few non callables that havent been wiped out from tenders...A few examples like MSEXP, NEWEN, CTGSP, and CTPPO are uncallables but have had various tender offers over the previous decades. So there is only a couple thousand shares of each left anymore. MSEXP for example is down to 780 shares left.

With only 780 shares I do not know why they do not offer 2X or even 10X to get rid of them... there are cost involved in having an issue outstanding... I cannot see trustee fees being less than $3,000 per year plus the legal and filing requirements.... so even if $5,000 per year that is over $6 per share expense...


Wonder what it would cost to go to court to be able to force a call... I assume they know who owns them... so can push to get rid of them
__________________

Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2020, 01:06 PM   #5143
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 8,446
Texas I bet they have been tendered over the years but there are always unaware people...Take CTGSP...A an 8% $3.25 or so par issue. About 5 years ago they offered $12 a share and 20,000 still didnt tender and it trades at $6 or so....
Mulligan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2020, 07:57 PM   #5144
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,843
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulligan View Post
Texas I bet they have been tendered over the years but there are always unaware people...Take CTGSP...A an 8% $3.25 or so par issue. About 5 years ago they offered $12 a share and 20,000 still didnt tender and it trades at $6 or so....
Have to wonder how many of those shareholders passed to the other side and those who inherited have no idea. Or how many may have passed without any heirs. Think it's chance it's just dead wood?
bobandsherry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2020, 08:53 PM   #5145
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 8,446
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobandsherry View Post
Have to wonder how many of those shareholders passed to the other side and those who inherited have no idea. Or how many may have passed without any heirs. Think it's chance it's just dead wood?

Quite possible, as issues like CTGSP are over 100 years old which means they originated in stock certificate form. Very possible many were lost over time.
I remember about 5 years ago Connecticut Power and Light wanted to increase their short term borrowing limits. But they needed the preferred stock holders permission as it would have violated preferred covenants. Management said it failed because even though the ones who voted overwhelming approved they couldnt track down enough of the shareholders to get the vote. These are all old issues too. Dont know why they didnt just redeem them to do it, but they didnt.
Mulligan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2020, 09:07 PM   #5146
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 25,729
So if they can't track them down then they can't pay dividends either I would think. I wonder if the unpaid dividends eventually get escheated to the state.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.

Retired Jan 2012 at age 56...target 65/35/0 AA TBD
pb4uski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2020, 07:08 AM   #5147
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 15,406
Quote:
Originally Posted by pb4uski View Post
So if they can't track them down then they can't pay dividends either I would think. I wonder if the unpaid dividends eventually get escheated to the state.

The answer is yes... and from what I found out if the shares are at Computershares the shares get escheated also...


The question I am still waiting to find out is if they sold those shares or not... so far New York is doing nothing on my request.
Texas Proud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2020, 07:59 AM   #5148
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 8,446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Proud View Post
The answer is yes... and from what I found out if the shares are at Computershares the shares get escheated also...


The question I am still waiting to find out is if they sold those shares or not... so far New York is doing nothing on my request.

I would think its just the dividends not the shares. But remember many of these shares probably never made it into DTC. They were just paper issuances that never converted.
Mulligan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2020, 08:27 AM   #5149
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 25,729
Probably sitting in a never-used drawer or landfill.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.

Retired Jan 2012 at age 56...target 65/35/0 AA TBD
pb4uski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2020, 10:46 AM   #5150
Full time employment: Posting here.
Coolius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 832
Mulligan,


After reading about the emergence of PG&E from BK, I decided to tiptoe in and try to scalp some coin from this event.


Just bought 42 shares @ $27.50. Now I wait.
Coolius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2020, 10:57 AM   #5151
Moderator Emeritus
aja8888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Woodlands, TX
Posts: 11,343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolius View Post
Mulligan,


After reading about the emergence of PG&E from BK, I decided to tiptoe in and try to scalp some coin from this event.


Just bought 42 shares @ $27.50. Now I wait.
Which issue and why such an odd number of shares?
__________________
Saying on a Get Well card from a friend of mine after I had my second hip replacement - "Don't let the Old Man in..."
aja8888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2020, 11:02 AM   #5152
Full time employment: Posting here.
Coolius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 832
aja,


It was PCG-A. My order was for an even 200, but only 42 shares filled at $27.50.


I still have that partial order out there, but am not optimistic of being filled. That was a sudden drop from $27.75 down to $27.41. When I saw the drop I figured to get in on the action, and that was the result.


Update: Just filled for another 44 shares.
Coolius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2020, 11:04 AM   #5153
Moderator Emeritus
aja8888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Woodlands, TX
Posts: 11,343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolius View Post
aja,


It was PCG-A. My order was for an even 200, but only 42 shares filled at $27.50.


I still have that partial order out there, but am not optimistic of being filled. That was a sudden drop from $27.75 down to $27.41. When I saw the drop I figured to get in on the action, and that was the result.
Thanks, I'm looking to buy some of that too. I have not placed an order yet though.
__________________
Saying on a Get Well card from a friend of mine after I had my second hip replacement - "Don't let the Old Man in..."
aja8888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2020, 11:30 AM   #5154
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 8,446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolius View Post
Mulligan,


After reading about the emergence of PG&E from BK, I decided to tiptoe in and try to scalp some coin from this event.


Just bought 42 shares @ $27.50. Now I wait.

Coolius, They are your electric provider, right? As you know they have high rates. So you gotta buy a lot more if you want them to pay you instead of you paying them, ha...
Mulligan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2020, 11:48 AM   #5155
Full time employment: Posting here.
Coolius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 832
Yep, PG&E supplies my natural gas. My electricity is supplied by SMUD, which is the provider for the county I'm residing in.


Seems like the BK emergence is going as expected. So the real gain would be dividends beyond June 30.


Mulligan, since some of the Preferreds are not redeemable, are there any tricks that PG&E can employ to get those off their books? Maybe a tender. perhaps?
Coolius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2020, 12:07 PM   #5156
Moderator Emeritus
aja8888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Woodlands, TX
Posts: 11,343
FYI, I just picked up 100 of PCG-A for $27.55.
__________________
Saying on a Get Well card from a friend of mine after I had my second hip replacement - "Don't let the Old Man in..."
aja8888 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2020, 01:55 PM   #5157
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
pb4uski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Vermont & Sarasota, FL
Posts: 25,729
Quote:
Originally Posted by aja8888 View Post
FYI, I just picked up 100 of PCG-A for $27.55.
Good deal.
__________________
If something cannot endure laughter.... it cannot endure.
Patience is the art of concealing your impatience.
Slow and steady wins the race.

Retired Jan 2012 at age 56...target 65/35/0 AA TBD
pb4uski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2020, 05:01 PM   #5158
Full time employment: Posting here.
Coolius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 832
Mulligan, a thought just occurred to me; is there any possibility that PG&E could pay accrued preferred dividends in the form of common stock?



If they do, then the attractiveness of the accrued dividend is lessened somewhat, unless one sells the stock immediately upon receipt.



And are there any arrangements between the Govt & PG&E to avoid BK due to similar happenings with future fires?
Coolius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2020, 06:32 AM   #5159
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 8,446
Hey Coolius, no these are traditional preferreds to be paid in cash. In fact the court document for bankruptcy approval showed on cash flow statements, $42 million in preferred stock dividends to be disbursed by end of year. That is exactly 3 years of then accrued dividends.
In reality PCG preferreds are “irrelevant” in terms of capitalization. All of them combined is less than half the value of say NI-B is by itself. $14 million in dividend payments is total chump change. They were paying out a billion a year in common stock dividends pre fire.
So it was just economic show that they were suspended to begin with as that amount is just communal office petty cash compared to enterprise value of the company.
Mulligan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2020, 05:39 AM   #5160
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Mulligan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 8,446
PCG litigants officially approved bankruptcy proposal Friday, almost 90%. Next week regulators will stamp their approval before Judge winds it up.
__________________

Mulligan is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

« REITs | - »

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Preferred or not preferred lja0703 Stock Picking and Market Strategy 19 02-19-2015 10:52 AM
Fixed to Float Preferred Stock Richard4444 FIRE and Money 5 11-04-2013 06:43 AM
Choosing Between Pre-tax and After-tax Investing ClockWatcher Hi, I am... 10 05-09-2013 07:05 PM
How to sell individual Municipals and Preferred stock JB Stock Picking and Market Strategy 5 12-27-2007 03:28 PM
Third Party Preferred Stock Tony Tampa FIRE and Money 1 04-25-2006 02:47 PM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:00 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×