The Cryptocurrency Thread

[braumeister]

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Finally gave in

Help me understand

so we finally have

bitcoin time to sell

[captain3d]

Good idea thanks.

And a small congrats to Ethereum making an all time high today just over $4500

[REWahoo]

Thanks mods!

Makes it much easier for those of us who have no interest in the subject to put only one thread on ignore.

[captain3d]

Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo Thanks mods! Makes it much easier for those of us who have no interest in the subject to put only one thread on ignore.

Please delete this unhelpful comment

[Andre1969]

Quote:

Originally Posted by REWahoo Thanks mods! Makes it much easier for those of us who have no interest in the subject to put only one thread on ignore.

Hey, don't knock it. I bought a few shares of BRPHF yesterday, after reading that several other members hold it. It went up 11.11% today.

Is it too early to go WHEEEEEE!!! ?

[donheff]

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain3d Good idea thanks. And a small congrats to Ethereum making an all time high today just over $4500

I haven't looked at my meager holdings in a long time. I got a miniscule amount of Ethereum at $85 IIRC.

[captain3d]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donheff I haven't looked at my meager holdings in a long time. I got a miniscule amount of Ethereum at $85 IIRC.

$85! if only there was more :-)

[37andhappy]

In an earlier thread, someone has asked about the difference between Bitcoin and so called "alt coins" and "meme coins".

There are important distinctions between these two classes, both philosophical, economic, technological, and legal.

Yesterday, Senator Cynthia Lummis provided her thoughts on the issue:

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/...are-securities

[turbo89]

I also broke down recently and put some “play money” into crypto. There are a lot of good YouTube channels (and a lot of bad ones) that described how it all works. “Full Value Dan” and “Max Maher” do a great job breaking down crypto investing into understandable content, and are a good place to start if you’re thinking about dipping your toe in.

Good luck to all those venturing into crypto… we’ve got a lot to learn.

[captain3d]

I have been enjoying Invest Answers Channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClg...-GyaNxUHcLZrkg

Lots of nerdy numbers and future speculation from someone who likes to trade while looking long term.

I also enjoy Bejamin Cowen
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRv...aWn-uEx-w0XOIg

For pure chart entertainment also with the eye on long term.

[SecondAttempt]

Well my plan is to wait until Chuckanut gets his time machine fixed, hitch a ride back to July 2010, and buy $1000 worth of bitcoin at $0.08 each then fly back to yesterday and sell it all. And I will pay my capital gains taxes. I'm sure Chuckanut will want a cut too.

[SecondAttempt]

Everyone (except 37) who has mentioned on this and other recent threads that they have bought bitcoin suggest that they bought for speculative reasons. I see nothing wrong with that. It turns out to have been a good speculation. You should all pat yourselves on the back. I mean that sincerely. I've made some speculative buys in my life, some have paid extremely well and some turned into total losses.

But I still do not see the long term value in a cryptocurrency that has no economic value that anyone seems to be able to explain. A USD, CAD, AUD, euro, yuan, peso, etc. has value as a convenient medium of exchange. Bitcoin is far from convenient. I can't go to the grocery store and buy a bag of apples or a six pack with it, at least not yet. Maybe it will get there, maybe it will not.

I do see a lot of value in its use by criminals and tax cheats and I think that is what has driven its growth. But that evaporates once transacions are traceable to individuals which I think is both imminent and inevitable.

In a previous thread it was mentioned that all currencies decline in value over time. Yes they do and we call that inflation. But there is a broader economic system in play. In general governments, banks, and other borrowers must pay a little bit over inflation to attract capital. Government bonds, at least the 10-year US Treasuries, are generally considered risk free (because the government can always print money to pay them). Those have typically yielded at roughly the inflation rate for a long time. Other bonds typically are priced to yield slightly more or less based on their relative risk. Equities have historically paid a 6% risk premium. It is hard to do the research but peopel who do this kind of work think they have evidence that the same relative relationships existed hundreds of years ago and possibly in ancient Rome.

So the way to store value is to accept a little risk. And the flip side is that your return generally reflects the risk you are taking. The returns of bitcoin are screaming high risk.

[Markola]

^^^^^^There ought to be plenty of inflation coming with Ether and any other coin intended to be produced in unlimited supply.

[37andhappy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SecondAttempt But I still do not see the long term value in a cryptocurrency that has no economic value that anyone seems to be able to explain. A USD, CAD, AUD, euro, yuan, peso, etc. has value as a convenient medium of exchange. Bitcoin is far from convenient. I can't go to the grocery store and buy a bag of apples or a six pack with it, at least not yet. Maybe it will get there, maybe it will not.

In terms of what gives value to Bitcoin, its a simple economic equation of demand (for a perfectly limited supply). If demand does up, price will follow. So what we, as asset allocators simply need to do, it make a likely assessment of the future demand for Bitcoin. Its essentially binary - demand goes up, price goes up.[MOD EDIT]
As to use of Bitcoin "not being convenient", most people find it incredibly convenient as a store of value, especially with all the properties of fixed supply, infinite divisibility, transferability, and lack of counterparty risk. And indeed, for some (maybe not as many here in the US, they actually find the "traditional banking system" incredibility inconvenient, or even entirely inaccessible. Its really all a matter of perspective.

In terms of use in commerce, there is the second layer lightening network which processes thousands of transactions (use for example in El Salvador where Sats are now legal tender).

Right across Africa, we are seeing massive growth of the use of Sats in commerce. Bitcoin has been a godsend of hope to the unbanked, the small entrepreneurs, the housewives wanting to save, people wanting to transfer money, people wanting protection against incompetent and corrupt governments. In Kenya, Nigeria, Ethiopia, and South Africa, use of Sats over the lightening network it rocketing up. I was amazed on my last visit to Kenya, to witness broad use of Bitcoin (and that was nearly several years ago now). For many small and medium retailers in Africa, 5-15% of total transactions are now in Bitcoin. All they really need is a phone, and a lightening wallet.

A good article that explains what is occurring in Africa is here:

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business...tcoin-payments

Meanwhile, yes, actually you can go to any store that accepts a Visa or Mastercard which has Bitcoin enabled on the backend. On the front-end, the transaction can be seamless and in fiat currency for those who want it, but for a person who want to deal in Sats (either as the buyer or the seller) this is entirely doable. You can ask your bank about this if of interest, or contact a provider such as www.bakkt.com (now a listed company). See for example here:

https://investors.bakkt.com/news/new...s/default.aspx

In Australia, the country's largest bank has announced it will include Bitcoin in its banking app for all customers. (And once one bank starts, others of course are compelled to follow. We will of course see banks start to roll this our here too). An article about this is here:

https://www.theblockcrypto.com/linke...rt-to-its-app?

You need not worry about being compelled to use Bitcoin in transactions when you go shopping (at least not yet!). But the option is certainly there for you to do so, and this becoming more visible and viable every day. Technological adoption happens over time, and comfort and acceptance of new technology also takes time, but often both occur at an exponential pace once a certain "critical momentum" is reached. In the US, I think its far more likely we will first see BTC used primarily as a store of value and defence against a declining currency, but then over time see it integrated to fiat currency conversions for micropayments. For Visa and Mastercard, they really have no choice but to adopt. PayPal, Square, Stripe, Crypto.com, etc are all already well on their way, so the big players now are rapidly following.

Hope that helps!

[37andhappy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markola ^^^^^^There ought to be plenty of inflation coming with Ether and any other coin intended to be produced in unlimited supply.

Absolutely correct. This is what makes BTC unique, and why we would be wise to avoid alts. Its a very important distinction, which not all understand, but lessons will be learned (and indeed, alt newbies are "taught a lesson" every crypto cycle we have had, much like how "penny stock" investors learn a lesson over time).

[RVplusDog]

Do we want to delve into Ethereum’s fork including burning gas and proof of stake vs proof of work?

I own and trade BTC, ETH, and a very small amount of LTC. I trade (but don’t keep) Doge. I have small amounts of Solano and several of the other altcoins.

[target2019]

https://www.early-retirement.org/for...ml#post2683128

I'm wondering if it's possible to answer a question in words, rather that a series of tube posts.

[captain3d]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markola ^^^^^^There ought to be plenty of inflation coming with Ether and any other coin intended to be produced in unlimited supply.

I would say ETH is now deflationary with the burning and proof of work lockup’s

[jim584672]

BTC as the king of crypto is like watching the GME meme stock thing. GME was the first real meme stock to explode. Then [mod edit] went looking for the next new high flyer and soon dozens of meme stocks started to get bought up in hopes of the next big up move. This diluted the money flow among too many issues and they all drifted lower. Once in a while one of these will pop up due to the next new "squeeze" story (they have to create new stories all the time). Crypto is very similar. Animal spirits at work. Dogecoin, Shiba inu, which one is next?

[captain3d]

BTC has been growing for 12 years so I give it more credit than just market manipulation.

Yes meme coins are a different game completely